Church on Duty

puckhead · 08-17-2012, 05:01

What do you guys think? Good idea? Bad idea? Inappropriate? Say you could go during what would be considered your lunch break and still be available for calls. Would you go? If you are a supervisor would you let your employees go?

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RetailNinja · 08-17-2012, 05:13

I would not go because I don't go. Were I a supervisor and the building was in the deputy's patrol area, I would not be opposed to anyone attending a service for their respective religion. Probably why I'm not a supervisor, though...

DoogieHowser · 08-17-2012, 05:16

I'd say go for it, my church would be fine with it. Wear an ear piece sit close to the back and park close to the church entrance. Any church that's worth going to would appreciate it.

I'm not a supervisor and probably never will be... I'm not sworn but arrest authority so I wouldn't have jurisdiction nor open carry privs at my church anyway.

Patchman · 08-17-2012, 06:18

That's an interesting question!

Guess it would depend on how many times a day/week one would be attending services. And how long the service is. Other concern would be appearances of possible impropriety/favortism (as seen by other churches/places of worship), etc...

If it's just attending Sunday service because you're working Sundays, then I see no problem.

JBaird22 · 08-17-2012, 06:25

I had a captain that would go when we worked Sunday morning.

I have mixed feelings. I don't think for me personally, I would go if my church were within my jurisdiction, as it would distract me from my duties that day. I think the Lord would understand, especially since he's called me to serve in this capacity.

golls17 · 08-17-2012, 06:25

Generally speaking I would say it's inappropriate, especially if in uniform. God will understand that you're working. Go on your off days.

BTW, there is no law that says you are only allowed to spend time with God on Sunday mornings...

ETA: I don't think a church would have an issue with it, though. I wouldn't have an issue with an officer showing up to chat with the congregation afterwords during coffee or something just to say hi, but taking an hour out of a shift for personal beliefs might not be seen in a positive light for the rest of the community you serve. Heck, I bet even some in the congregation might think, "Well, I'm glad he's church-going folk, but aren't I paying him to keep our community safe right now? Not praying."

Plus, it's a slippery slope. Where do you draw the line? What if an officer wanted to watch one of their children in a school recital? "Well, Joe got to go to church on the clock, you're telling me I can't go see my daughter do her first ballet dance on the clock?"

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Ajon412 · 08-17-2012, 06:40

I'd say it would be OK and as a supervisor, I would not have a problem with it.

**Hack** · 08-17-2012, 06:58

I can tell you that our church doesn't have a problem with it.

If I worked on the outside in law enforcement, (as many of you do), I think it would depend on several things:

Would it distract from the overall mission of the church group?
Would it distract you from responding to calls?
Does department/agency policy allow for it?

In my particular circumstances:
Off duty but subject to recall 24/7.
On duty, I am within the wire, or off reservation in a duty position, therefore not being able to escape duty for going to church, whilst on duty. However, there may still be allowances for those who work during their proscribed day of worship to take a little time out of the day to do so on their own at their work site.

Law enforcement makes it difficult at times to go to worship services, by the nature of the occupation. But, even if you cannot go, you can spend time with G-d on your own, or in the company of like minded individuals while working, as long as you understood that your duties come first.

LT642 · 08-17-2012, 07:28

If you are on an approved break, GO! As a supervisor I would totally support one of my people wanting to attend church on duty. We must remember there is always going to be people who find fault with things we do.

You could always, with your supervisors permission, check out on a park and walk. I say with permission just so your supervisor knows what's up. In todays world I would think that this is appropriate. I have weekends off so I don't have these issues, but to think anyone would find fault with you wanting to go into a house of worship, wow!

Cav · 08-17-2012, 07:28

My work does not have an issue with it, if its for set events, or short time wise.

Some holidays/holydays you get told to check out where you want, but be availbe or show up at set places for services/food.

Where I live in Texas we have a church on every block. They all support the police, and we try to support them. No one looks at officers picking favorits, nor do they care if officers have guns in church (on or off duty).

There have major chuch events where callouts happened and 15-20 officers have to get up and leave. There have been SWAT callouts where after the mission everyone went to a set event in uniorm as to pay respect.

The only issue my work might have is if you used the excuse you could not go because you were in uniform. They would get angry if they heard that.

golls17 · 08-17-2012, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LT642

[snip] but to think anyone would find fault with you wanting to go into a house of worship, wow!

If a house of worship is the only place somebody is willing to worship, I would suggest talking to the pastor. At my church, our pastor is full-time. If somebody wants to pray during the week, evening, etc., he's there to let them in. I don't know if most churches work that way, but I'm sure something could be worked out.

nikerret · 08-17-2012, 08:25

Where do you draw the line? I am not a traditional church-goer, but I do a few things religiously. We get a 30 minute break and two 15 minute coffee breaks, all of which must be seperate and must stay available for calls. I've been to many different churches and most sermons take 45 minutes to an hour.

Since I choose to not go to a traditional church, can I go home and get some from the old lady on my 30? It's a lot like smoke breaks. I worked at a furniture store where I was the only non-smoker. Every twenty minutes everyone else would go to smoke. This left me to work, alone. I do like to be left alone to work, but it got old working more hours for less pay once the smoking breaks got factored in. Eventually, I decided I would take smoke breaks sans the smoking (I would do other stuff). It pissed the bosses off, but they couldn't say anything when I pointed out how much time they spent on the back patio nursing a ciggarette.

Panzergrenadier1979 · 08-17-2012, 09:23

My church is located in the township adjacent to mine and is covered by state police. My municipality has, in the past, proposed contracting with this township to provide police coverage for them. If this were to ever happen, then my church WOULD be accessible to me while on duty during Sundays. I will admit that I have wondered if I'd ask to attend a service while on duty BUT still available to answer calls. I know that my sergeant wouldn't care but I doubt my chief would be so accommodating.

Last year I did receive permission to attend a special, hour long class, for married couples on a Sunday morning with my wife while on duty and in uniform. I put in my ear piece and went to the class. Fortunately my assigned zone did not have any calls during that time and I was able to stay for the entire class. The funny part was that my wife felt like a total rock star because of all the attention we got. She treated me like arm candy lol.

Knute · 08-17-2012, 10:25

When I worked Sundays in patrol I would attend. I would always sit in the back, close to the door, and with my back covered. If it is your specific church, everybody knows what you do for a living anyhow. And if I got a call, I would slip out and go handle business. Never had any issues with this.

Knute · 08-17-2012, 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by golls17

Generally speaking I would say it's inappropriate, especially if in uniform. God will understand that you're working. Go on your off days.

BTW, there is no law that says you are only allowed to spend time with God on Sunday mornings...

ETA: I don't think a church would have an issue with it, though. I wouldn't have an issue with an officer showing up to chat with the congregation afterwords during coffee or something just to say hi, but taking an hour out of a shift for personal beliefs might not be seen in a positive light for the rest of the community you serve. Heck, I bet even some in the congregation might think, "Well, I'm glad he's church-going folk, but aren't I paying him to keep our community safe right now? Not praying."

Plus, it's a slippery slope. Where do you draw the line? What if an officer wanted to watch one of their children in a school recital? "Well, Joe got to go to church on the clock, you're telling me I can't go see my daughter do her first ballet dance on the clock?"

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So isn't the public paying for you to take a lunch break too? What is the difference between spending that lunch break in church, at my kid's recital, etc. as compared to sitting in a diner or at the PD? It's one thing if whatever function you are attending is in your area. It's a whole other thing if it is not. If needed, burn an hour or two of your own vacation/comp time if it's that important to you.

CAcop · 08-17-2012, 10:45

I think the only way this would work is if you worked for a small agency and everybody, including all the fellow worshippers, were okay with it. All it takes is one old bitty with nothing but time and angry at the world to piss in the chief or city counsel's ear.

About the only way it would work here is if an officer went on or near his beat to church and no one found out about it.

As a supervisor I would be okay if they were producers and answer calls for service in a timely manner.

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CW Mock · 08-17-2012, 10:48

When I was stuck working Sundays I would take my break for the day at Church. Everyone at my Church knows what I do anyways because I teach safety classes for the scouts, etc, and they were glad to see me there. I sat in the back by the door and parked the car nearby.

I never had any issues at all. If a call came in, I left. People told me it was nice to see a uniformed officer around, especially after we had a shooting of a church official in a church building in another state, and then the big church shooting in Colorado Springs.

Now I have Sundays off, so it's not an issue. Isn't it just more community policing anyways?

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CJStudent · 08-17-2012, 11:43

I think it's all going to depend on the area you're in.

RetailNinja · 08-17-2012, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikerret

Where do you draw the line? I am not a traditional church-goer, but I do a few things religiously.

Again, not a supervisor, but were I..

I would chalk church up under community contacts as I don't see church as recreation,even as an unabashed atheist. Attending a recital, no problem, attending a kid's ____ball game, no problem.

The key is being able to respond to a call and react timely. If you go home at lunch and the union/boss/policy/____ says the time is your time, you do as you see fit. Being caught in the pinkstink is no more inhibiting than being caught taking the browns to the superbowl a day after chili... That 30:00 is yours but at 30:00:01 your ass is mine and you better be ready for anything from cat in a drain pipe to N. Hollywood shootout.

Again, probably why I'll never make supervisor.

BamaTrooper · 08-17-2012, 13:07

A lot of this will depend on how your agency looks at being out of the car and not whether it was church or not.

Say the local HS is playing football, does your agency allow on duty guys to go watch and be subject to call? Do they actively support you stopping at the local Little League field and chatting with local families? Is it much different with church?

I know a Catholic mass is over in under an hour and often the last few minutes are parish announcements and such so really you are looking at 45 minutes or so.

On a lunch break or something, say before or after your shift, it should be even less of a problem. Not on break, you should be subject to call.

DoogieHowser · 08-17-2012, 13:10

I'm glad I don't work for some of these departments... If your ready to go and it's in your jurisdiction how is it different than any other community contact?

golls17 · 08-17-2012, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoogieHowser

I'm glad I don't work for some of these departments... If your ready to go and it's in your jurisdiction how is it different than any other community contact?

The way I see it, if you're going there to say hi, make sure everything is good, chat for a few minutes, then leave, there's no problem. If the purpose is to go and sit in the pews for an hour, I think that goes beyond a community contact.

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golls17 · 08-17-2012, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knute

So isn't the public paying for you to take a lunch break too? What is the difference between spending that lunch break in church, at my kid's recital, etc. as compared to sitting in a diner or at the PD? It's one thing if whatever function you are attending is in your area. It's a whole other thing if it is not. If needed, burn an hour or two of your own vacation/comp time if it's that important to you.

If it were just during your lunch break, I wouldn't have an issue. I just don't know of any services that are that short.

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Patchman · 08-17-2012, 17:48

My problem would be that I tend to doze off... and no way in heck are we permitted to nap while working, no matter what circumstances or situation.

Close your eyes to pray, that's OK.

collim1 · 08-17-2012, 17:53

I personally would not. I know plenty of officers that go say hi to the family and friends after the service and get 10-8 after a few mins.

Several of the big churches in my area hire officers for security and traffic direction. Lots of guys sign up for their church service and make OT attending it. Nothing wrong there IMO as long as you still handle the job you are hired for.