.40 questions

brokenprism · 08-13-2012, 16:28

I have a G22 and G23. I love .40 because it's the biggest diameter bullet I can throw from a Glock without trying to get my hand around the fat 20/21 frames, and without going with a GAP. (They should have made a single stack, G22-sized .45 ACP, but they didn't. If they did, I'd shoot that.)

I'm buying KKM barrels so I can shoot loads that require a supported chamber, and this raises two questions:

1. If I shoot +P stype stuff occasionally, should I get a stronger recoil spring? Would a factory-made G20 spring assembly give me the strength I would need, or would I have to 'build' an assy with a guide rod and Wolff spring rated for the pressure level?

2. I'm fascinated by the .357 SIG load, and contemplated buying a G31 (or another KKM barrel for .357) but if I shoot Underwood ammo -- 135 gr +P ammo (1500 fps, 675 ft lbs!) -- does this effectively obviate the need for a .357 when I want my gun to shoot flat and fast, and deliver big-time energy? It could only be better, right, with slightly higher weight and diameter? (If they made/could make a single stack G20 proprtioned like a 22, I'd go that route, but I can't.

Thanks in advance for replies.

Adamz04 · 08-13-2012, 19:01

I can't speak to the recoil spring question, cause I've always ran stock ones.

Regarding 357sig. It is a great round, I prefer it better than 40. If you want to shoot high power loads you may as well get the kkm for your 23/22. It would also be cheaper than a new gun. 135gr 40s will match the velocity of the 357 sig but but not the terminal ballistics. It's only a little longer than it is wide, poor BC, and likely will not penetrate well at all as where the sig will penetrate deeper. 155-165gr is more optimal for the 40, but the 125gr is optimal for the 357.

SDGlock23 · 08-13-2012, 19:31

You don't need a new spring.

Also, the 357 Sig is a good round, but in all honesty, the 125gr 357 Sig and 155gr .40 are more or less identical. The 135gr is pretty good too, just probably a little light on penetration. I've got a G32 barrel for the G23 and while I like the 357 Sig, I've only used it a few times over the years. Don't think you have to settle on mediocrity because you got a .40, the .40 is a fantastic round and very capable. 135's @ 1500+ and 200's @ 1100+ are no joke.

Trigger Finger · 08-13-2012, 20:16

"If I shoot +P stype stuff occasionally, should I get a stronger recoil spring? Would a factory-made G20 spring assembly give me the strength I would need, or would I have to 'build' an assy with a guide rod and Wolff spring rated for the pressure level?"

For "occasional" use I don't think you would need a stronger spring!
If you went for a stronger spring, for more than occasional use, I would just go about two lbs over stock. With Wolff you could get a new guide rod and correct spring in a number of strengths. I did the same for my G21 for 45 Super but used a 24 lb spring.

I like the 40 better than the 357 Sig. So IMHO a Hot 40 is better than a Hot 357. But that's just me!

brokenprism · 08-13-2012, 20:20

I admit I was tempted by the 135 at 1500, but I'm just as happy with 155 at 1300, and would love to shoot 200 at 1100. I dig heavy bullets. I have always shot 180, but am in the mood to experiment.

I'll start with 155 as my minimum (Remington's Express 155 seems plenty hot when it goes off in my hand). I wondered about a 200 gr bullet, and if they move one at 1100, I'm in. Who loads it? Underwood loads a 180 at 1100, but I don't see a 200 there.

cowboy1964 · 08-13-2012, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDGlock23

You don't need a new spring.

Also, the 357 Sig is a good round, but in all honesty, the 125gr 357 Sig and 155gr .40 are more or less identical..

155 .40's are known for being a bit light on penetration. Quite the opposite of .357 Sig.

cowboy1964 · 08-13-2012, 20:27

A 135gr .40 is a bit light, IMO. Sectional density is an important factor and it is very low in that configuration.

Also, maybe at some point you should just get used to the "fat Glock" and get a 10mm rather than trying to replicate one using overloaded .40 ammo.

NEOH212 · 08-13-2012, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboy1964

A 135gr .40 is a bit light, IMO. Sectional density is an important factor and it is very low in that configuration.

Also, maybe at some point you should just get used to the "fat Glock" and get a 10mm rather than trying to replicate one using overloaded .40 ammo.

This is sound advice!

unit1069 · 08-13-2012, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenprism

2. I'm fascinated by the .357 SIG load, and contemplated buying a G31 (or another KKM barrel for .357) but if I shoot Underwood ammo -- 135 gr +P ammo (1500 fps, 675 ft lbs!) -- does this effectively obviate the need for a .357 when I want my gun to shoot flat and fast, and deliver big-time energy? It could only be better, right, with slightly higher weight and diameter?

I can't give any advice on .40S&W having never owned one, but the .40S&W guns I've shot all exhibit more muzzle flip than my .357sig.

If at all possible I suggest you shoot a .357sig to gauge your reaction and impression of that caliber. I originally was intent on buying a Glock G-23 barrel for my G-32 but I've decided to forego that as I much prefer the .357sig round.

That said, either caliber will surely bring sufficient firepower to a self-defense situation, no question about that.

avenues165 · 08-13-2012, 21:40

I am a fan of both cartridges. I like 165gr loadings in .40s&w. If I had to choose I would pick the 357 sig. It seems to have less perceived recoil for me and I feel like I can shoot it a little bit faster while maintaining accuracy. I have my 357 sig loaded with GDs.

When only looking at it from a fun perspective the 357 sig always seems to entertain me. I often save my 357 sig shooting for long range stuff. The 357 gets out to 100 yards pretty quickly.

I am nervous to shoot any .40 loadings in my Glock OEM barrel that are labeled "+p" but to each his own. I am sure there are probably folks that shoot the Underwood .40 +p loadings in their Glocks with no problems. At 1,500fps, that 135gr bullet is moving. However, until I hear that Underwood states it is save for Glock OEM barrels, I'll pass.

Glockbuster · 08-13-2012, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenprism

I admit I was tempted by the 135 at 1500, but I'm just as happy with 155 at 1300, and would love to shoot 200 at 1100. I dig heavy bullets. I have always shot 180, but am in the mood to experiment.

I'll start with 155 as my minimum (Remington's Express 155 seems plenty hot when it goes off in my hand). I wondered about a 200 gr bullet, and if they move one at 1100, I'm in. Who loads it? Underwood loads a 180 at 1100, but I don't see a 200 there.

I have no idea where you guys get your figures from.

a 155 grain .40 is a HOT load at 1200 fps, and a Corbon 135 grain does 1300 fps and is also a HOT load.

brokenprism · 08-13-2012, 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by avenues165

I am nervous to shoot any .40 loadings in my Glock OEM barrel that are labeled "+p" but to each his own. I am sure there are probably folks that shoot the Underwood .40 +p loadings in their Glocks with no problems. However, until I hear that Underwood states it is save for Glock OEM barrels, I'll pass.

I'm buying a KKM barrel and would have anyway; I want strength in the chamber and no surprises, even with factory ammo.

155 too light? I'll bump it up to 165. Eventually, I'll get to where I started, 180. : )

I see the wisdom of letting each caliber do it's job. The fat Glock idea seems like the logical solution to a faster 10mm bullet, if that's all I wanted, but if I could get comfortable with that configuration, I'd carry a 21, because I love and trust .45 ACP. The slimmer Glocks fit me like a fresh pair of Hanes, and I'm spoiled.

"I have no idea where you guys get your figures from."

The Underwood site advertises a 155 gr load at 1300.

Barrels are cheaper than guns -- I'll get a 31 barrel for my 22. Thanks everybody!

Glockbuster · 08-14-2012, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenprism

"I have no idea where you guys get your figures from."

The Underwood site advertises a 155 gr load at 1300.

Barrels are cheaper than guns -- I'll get a 31 barrel for my 22. Thanks everybody!

Advertises is the key word here. Good luck with that. I dont think this will be met in a stock gun and barrel, not even a G35. Last I heard some of their loads did not meet advertised velocity.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1435876

brokenprism · 08-14-2012, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glockbuster

Advertises is the key word here. Good luck with that. I dont think this will be met in a stock gun and barrel, not even a G35. Last I heard some of their loads did not meet advertised velocity.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1435876

That's weird. I heard these velocities were surprisingly accurate, and I heard it here. Doesn't matter. I'll get a .357 barrel.

avenues165 · 08-14-2012, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glockbuster

Advertises is the key word here. Good luck with that. I dont think this will be met in a stock gun and barrel, not even a G35. Last I heard some of their loads did not meet advertised velocity.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1435876

That is what I heard too, 357 sig moving at <1,400fps from a 4" barrel. Although, a lot of folks love their loadings.