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Old 10-26-2012, 00:53   #126
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I might be mistaken, but i remember watching a video on youtube utilizing these bullets in a sabot shotgun slug. It failed to expand through water jugs (no denim IIRC).

I could be confusing this with another round, though.

Does anyone else know what I am refering to?
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:51   #127
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Still, it is one nasty-looking bullet.
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Old 10-26-2012, 14:46   #128
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Originally Posted by Glock19Fan View Post
I might be mistaken, but i remember watching a video on youtube utilizing these bullets in a sabot shotgun slug. It failed to expand through water jugs (no denim IIRC).

I could be confusing this with another round, though.

Does anyone else know what I am refering to?
This the one?

It doesn't use the rounds that we've been talking about in this thread, but these slug's behavior appears to be what you are describing.

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Old 10-26-2012, 16:15   #129
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I'd be interested in seeing one of these slugs that had been shot into a game animal. What is the FPS needed to cause these to expand?

Water and gell may have no real validity in relation to its game stopping power.

My Home protection shotguns are not long barreled so i assume they won't expand for unwelcome thugs? Does it make any difference?.
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Old 10-26-2012, 18:28   #130
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This the one?

It doesn't use the rounds that we've been talking about in this thread, but these slug's behavior appears to be what you are describing.

Ammo Test 12 Gauge - 1 oz. Copper Solid Slug - YouTube
Thats the one. I figured I was mistaken.
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Old 10-26-2012, 19:25   #131
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I have no idea what you think you are talking about, but I said .45 ACP doesn't make a big hole, rifles and shotguns make big holes.

You got pointless and said why stop there while posting an image of a naval gun.

As I said...rifles and shotguns make big holes, not handgun calibers out of handguns.
I did not say why stop there. That was someone else fella.
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Old 10-26-2012, 19:43   #132
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I did not say why stop there. That was someone else fella.
I went back, and you are correct, somebody else said that.

Which makes me wonder even more why you quoted me and said what you did. It doesn't make any sense at all
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Old 10-26-2012, 20:31   #133
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Quote:
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I'd be interested in seeing one of these slugs that had been shot into a game animal. What is the FPS needed to cause these to expand?




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Water and gell may have no real validity in relation to its game stopping power.
Gelatin mimics swine thigh muscle and human soft tissue. Water is also a proven tissue simulant (per the FBI, Fackler, Schwartz, MacPherson, etc.) that is known to over-state expansion. If it won't expand in water, it won't do so in animal tissue.



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My Home protection shotguns are not long barreled so i assume they won't expand for unwelcome thugs? Does it make any difference?.
After seeing those slugs fail to expand even after hitting a washing machine , I wouldn't use 'em, but it's your butt on the line and I am in no position to be telling you what you should do.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:43   #134
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I'd be interested in seeing one of these slugs that had been shot into a game animal. What is the FPS needed to cause these to expand?

Water and gell may have no real validity in relation to its game stopping power.

My Home protection shotguns are not long barreled so i assume they won't expand for unwelcome thugs? Does it make any difference?.
The required velocity is likely pretty high to get those copper hollow points to expand.
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Old 10-28-2012, 14:26   #135
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either will do the job. first shot counts. prefer the 45 fmj over the 9 fmj though. Whichever you are more comfortable and accurate with is what you should consider sticking with. G19 and G21 will both do the job and do it well.
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Old 10-28-2012, 14:39   #136
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either will do the job. first shot counts. prefer the 45 fmj over the 9 fmj though. Whichever you are more comfortable and accurate with is what you should consider sticking with. G19 and G21 will both do the job and do it well.
I agree for sure. The .45 FMJRN is far superior to the 9mm FMJRNs.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:14   #137
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If forced to make small holes, then I want the biggest small holes I can get. 45acp all day everyday for FMJ. Thre is a reason for double stack 9mm in the military, you will likely need more rounds.
They didn't have double stacked 1911s!
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:28   #138
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I wonder how accurate those sabotted slugs are in an unrifled barrel?
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Old 11-05-2012, 13:28   #139
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I like how the 9mm guys tout shot placement, but in the same breath also tout how they can carry more rounds. Wouldn't the first negate the need for the second?

And no, a .355" size hole is NOT the same as a .45" size hole in the heart. Yes, they will both prove fatal, but the bigger hole will yield quicker blood loss, and quicker incapacitation.

I choose .45ACP for FMJ only carry. In real life, I carry a single stack 9mm with JHP.

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Old 11-05-2012, 13:39   #140
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I like how the 9mm guys tout shot placement, but in the same breath also tout how they can carry more rounds. Wouldn't the first negate the need for the second?
Maybe. Maybe not.

Handgun rounds out of handguns are weak and ineffective. That's just the way it is.
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Old 11-05-2012, 15:18   #141
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Maybe. Maybe not.

Handgun rounds out of handguns are weak and ineffective. That's just the way it is.
I concur. Handgun bullets (short of .44 Magnums) have a hard time getting through heavy clothing and sternums/ribs. I am always aware of this sad fact whenever I put my G17 on.
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Old 11-05-2012, 18:02   #142
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If forced to make small holes, then I want the biggest small holes I can get. 45acp all day everyday for FMJ. Thre is a reason for double stack 9mm in the military, you will likely need more rounds.









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Old 11-05-2012, 22:49   #143
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It still seems as if everyone ignored the original post.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:42   #144
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It still seems as if everyone ignored the original post.
That's because the original post is so ignorable - FMJRN for self-defense. That idea went obsolete decades ago. JHPs are legal in all 50 states (for now).
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:42   #145
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That's because the original post is so ignorable - FMJRN for self-defense. That idea went obsolete decades ago. JHPs are legal in all 50 states (for now).

Who said that FMJ was absolete ? I would not use them in any caliber besides my M1911 45acp. But I do carry them in the 45acp, and know others that do as well in this caliber... They do far more damage than you might imagine hoss.








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Old 11-07-2012, 12:43   #146
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He said JHP are legal in all 50 states. Not illegal.

But I don't believe they are. Ask New Jersey.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:48   #147
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I like how the 9mm guys tout shot placement, but in the same breath also tout how they can carry more rounds. Wouldn't the first negate the need for the second?

And no, a .355" size hole is NOT the same as a .45" size hole in the heart. Yes, they will both prove fatal, but the bigger hole will yield quicker blood loss, and quicker incapacitation.

I choose .45ACP for FMJ only carry. In real life, I carry a single stack 9mm with JHP.
Me, too. I have great respect for the .45, but I carry a 9mm G17.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:48   #148
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9mm all day any day. Lighter recoil makes it much more controllable and much easier to shoot accurately under duress, Much more ammo capacity which is good since. criminals commit crimes in groups more than they do alone. Id rather have 15+1 9mm when facing 3 robbers then 8+1 45acp.
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No offense but if you need 15+1 rounds you need more time at the range
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:49   #149
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He said JHP are legal in all 50 states. Not illegal.

But I don't believe they are. Ask New Jersey.

61 year old eyes !

Thanks amigo, I"ll go back and fix my mess !


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Old 11-07-2012, 13:05   #150
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No offense but if you need 15+1 rounds you need more time at the range
Can I borrow your crystal ball?

Handguns are weak and ineffective, and you may require many shots, and many hits, to stop a single attacker.

You may face multiple attackers.

As they say...nobody ever complained about having too much ammunition. (weight, in this case, should not be a factor, we're not talking about full battle rattle with a rifle, 210 rounds, a pistol with mags, armour, other equipment, etc)
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