You answer the door with a gun... it's the cops

UneasyRider · 07-16-2012, 20:38

Tonights news had a story of a young man who answered his door at night, somebody was pounding on it, he had a gun and brought it with him to open the door. The 2 guys pounding on door don't say anything. True story.

The man opens his door and it's 2 cops who are looking for a murder suspect... they have the wrong unit number... the cops immediately shoot and kill the guy who opened the door.

What would you do if you were the cops?

What would you do if you were the man in the apartment?

20South · 07-16-2012, 21:18

If I were the man with the gun and I asked who was there, I wouldnt have answered the door and I likely would have called the police.

arclight610 · 07-16-2012, 21:29

Peephole?

jp3975 · 07-16-2012, 21:38

Usually when I answer the door with a gun, I have it behind my back.

Cali-Glock · 07-16-2012, 21:48

I live in the middle of nowhere - anyone pounding on my door after I have gone to sleep will be greeted with the business end of a gun. At least cops in rural areas expect this.

AK_Stick · 07-16-2012, 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

I live in the middle of nowhere - anyone pounding on my door after I have gone to sleep will be greeted with the business end of a gun. At least cops in rural areas expect this.

I don't know about that.

While common to have a gun, its decidedly uncommon around these rural parts, to open the door covering someone with a weapon. And doing so, would likely end quite like this event did.

Personally, I have both a peep hole, a glass section above the door, and a window through which I can see the door, without being seen. I always check before I answer. I also have a light above the door, and motion lights that activate prior to you getting 1/2 way down my drive, and illuminate my whole front yard as well.

While I will generally answer the door with a weapon, pointing it at someone and then opening the door, just seems to be asking for issues.

G22Dude · 07-16-2012, 22:20

I'm not obligated to open my door just because you knock on it. My wife and I have on many an occassion listen to someone or another pound away at our door while we sit there watching TV. As long as you don't bust the door in then you're ok. People sometimes forget that nobody can force you to answer the door

lawman800 · 07-16-2012, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp3975

Usually when I answer the door with a gun, I have it behind my back.

This... or I have it in my left hand, which I can shoot just as well with.

BlackPaladin · 07-16-2012, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

. At least cops in rural areas expect this.

No, cops don't and if you pull a stunt like that, plan on things not working for you in the long term.

smokeross · 07-16-2012, 23:01

If you beat on my door, day or night, I will have you covered. I may not open it though, but you will be covered.

lawman800 · 07-16-2012, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackPaladin

No, cops don't and if you pull a stunt like that, plan on things not working for you in the long term.

I don't think it will take too long for it to turn ugly... more like very short term, almost immediate term, at that.

BlackPaladin · 07-16-2012, 23:41

For clarification, I am referring to answering a door with an aimed weapon. I really think it is probably tough guy talk and most people would have better sense. FYI, I am not at all against having a firearm while answering the door. I can't imagine the stupidity who would not check to see who might be at the door before opening it though. Further stupidity would be opening a door to an unchecked person with an aimed weapon. There are a who lot of ways to avoid problems like that, see AKs post above.

FireForged · 07-16-2012, 23:42

If a situation at your front door is so suspect that a person feels the need to have a gun in their hand.. WHY in the heck would they open it?

jp3975 · 07-17-2012, 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireForged

If a situation at your front door is so suspect that a person feels the need to have a gun in their hand.. WHY in the heck would they open it?

I usually do if i dont know them.

awoodpd13 · 07-17-2012, 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by arclight610

Peephole?

This!!! If you look out, and it's a uniformed Police Officer, secure your firearm, THEN open the door!

TheExplorer · 07-17-2012, 06:03

Many doors do not have peepholes. Perhaps a question for coptalk, but from my limited CJ courses years ago, the law clearly states you must identify yourself as a LEO when knocking on the door. Heck this is procedure even for a raid. I have a feeling these cops will having some in depth discussions with IA and the DA's office.

UneasyRider · 07-17-2012, 06:10

I have more information having seen the video of the front of the apartment house. The resident could not see out enough to tell who was pounding on his door. Why did he open it?

The police have the door opened looking for a killer at this address and are met by a man with a gun? Around here your dead, we have lost too many cops.

Wrong address happens. Don't open the door. Get a warrant or some back up. No winners here.

eracer · 07-17-2012, 06:41

I would never open the door unless I first looked at the people standing outside it.

Hearing someone say, "Police, open up!" is not enough.

pugman · 07-17-2012, 07:13

This very thing happened to me back in 1992.

My now wife and I had our first apartment in a not so great area of town. It wasn't the hood, but 1) I wouldn't live there today 2) it didn't pass the car test. We had a 1st floor apartment.

About 3:30 am on a Sunday morning we get a pounding on the door. I had just gotten back from my bartending gig so I was up. My wife had been sleeping. Those doors did have peep holes but they were cheap, dirty (which is my fault) and gave you a viewing like a coke bottle.

I got the "its the police, please open up" line. However, at the time I had a bat and no gun.

Told him I HAD a gun and was calling 911 - he then informed me they were looking for an armed robbery suspect and noticed I was on the road and just came home.

The bar I worked at used armed security who escorted us out at night. I asked the cop if he knew Jim (the owner of JBM) he said yes; asked him to describe him and he did to a tee "6'4, blonde and dumb."

Little did I know a third officer was covering me from my ground floor glass patio door.

Today in my house...I'm simply not opening the door. They want to break it down having the wrong address...this is why I have an attorney and they have insurance. My wife has been asking us to change out our front door for months.

**DustyJacket** · 07-17-2012, 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheExplorer

.. the law clearly states you must identify yourself as a LEO when knocking on the door...

Not in any state I know of.

If I am answering my door at night, any gun I carry would be in my hand, in bathrobe pocket.

I would turn on the porch light, and look at the person and ask what they wanted, BEFORE, opening the door.

I would not be pointing a visible gun at the person.
If I felt that bad about the situation, I would not open the door. I would tell the person that I am calling the police.

17&27 · 07-17-2012, 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireForged

If a situation at your front door is so suspect that a person feels the need to have a gun in their hand.. WHY in the heck would they open it?

This. I'm not giving up my advantage of them not knowing where I am.

RED64CJ5 · 07-17-2012, 08:11

Loosely, these are our "house rules" in said situations....

1. Absolutely nothing compels anyone in my house to ever open a door. Nothing. Identification as LEO means ZIP-ZILCH-NADA. I have taught my kids that even if someone is begging for mercy, you do not open without assessment first.

2. If something doesn't feel right, refer to rule number 1.

3. Always answer night time visitors with proper Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) in hand. This does not necessarily mean "physically in your hand," but normally in the pocket or small of back. Typically snub nose or .380 pocket pistol.

4. When in doubt, use the security monitors/camera system to sweep perimeter. I would not own another home that does not have 360 view of the home.

Mr.Pliskin · 07-17-2012, 08:18

I don't answer the door anymore but...A few years ago there was a knocking on the door, I stopped getting ready to leave and answered it. When I opened the door there were two police officers on the porch asking if I knew the neighbor across the street. About this time I realize that I don't have an over shirt on, and my glock that I'm carrying AIWB is just sitting openly in the holster. I answer that I didnt but gave a description of their car an they went on their way.

I guess if they thought my house was a murder suspects home things may have gone a bit differently but I was proud of my PD that it wasn't even brought up as an issue.

Bren · 07-17-2012, 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by UneasyRider

Tonights news had a story of a young man who answered his door at night, somebody was pounding on it, he had a gun and brought it with him to open the door. The 2 guys pounding on door don't say anything. True story.

The man opens his door and it's 2 cops who are looking for a murder suspect... they have the wrong unit number... the cops immediately shoot and kill the guy who opened the door.

What would you do if you were the cops?

What would you do if you were the man in the apartment?

If/when I answer the door with a gun, as I have, it is out of sight and not pointed at anybody. So if I was the apartment resident, I'd do that and I wouldn't get shot.

If I was the police (or not the police) and I knocked on a door like any private citizen can do, and waited for a guy to answer, and he opened it and pointed a gun at me, I'd be shooting as fast as I could - anything else gives him the initiative than can decide who lives and dies.

I notice that both the newpaper writers and Glock Talkers are putting their own spin on the story, with no facts to back it up. For example, the paper saying the police "accidentally" shot "the wrong man" and they meant to shoot "an attempted murder suspect" - none of which is true or supported by the stated facts. They intentionally shot "the right man" - the one pointing a gun at them. They don't shoot people for being attempted murder suspects, they shoot them for pointing a gun.

You say "the 2 guys pounding on door don't say anything." But the paper said they "knocked" so I guess you choose to use "pounded" to imply that the resident may have had some reason to be afraid. It also isn't clear whether they said anything, but it is clear that there was no reason for them to say anything, under the stated facts.

quake · 07-17-2012, 08:45

Honestly don't know the answer to this, other than to ask who it is when they say they're a cop. Afaik, I know all of the officers in my area, so the answer would be along the lines of "Jimbo", "Harry", etc.

If you don't know them personally (and I realize most won't have that luxury), it might be a good idea to tell them you'll open up when they have dispatch call you on the phone, so you can confirm via caller id that it's at least likely real cops. It's something that they can do with one five-second radio call, and I've had to do it myself.