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Old 07-30-2012, 17:10   #1
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Good advice from a Navy Seal

"The United Kingdom and the United States are two great nations but separated by a common language" - George Bernard Shaw
"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" - George B Shaw
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Old 07-30-2012, 17:35   #2
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Originally Posted by ChrisJn View Post
Excellent advice. +1 on that.
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Old 07-30-2012, 17:36   #3
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Originally Posted by ChrisJn View Post
Good points.

The light he mentions goes to 500 luems.

I'm wondering what is a lower priced one and lower lumens?

He doesn't mention pepper spray - I can understand that wouldn't work in the movie theater but in would in other places.
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Old 07-30-2012, 17:43   #4
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Great article. His talk about the flashlight blinding a shooter makes a lot of sense.

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Old 07-30-2012, 19:30   #5
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Originally Posted by sappy13 View Post
Great article. His talk about the flashlight blinding a shooter makes a lot of sense.

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No it doesn't. At best, it's incomplete. At worst, it's turning you into a giant beacon of a bullet sponge.

You stand up--or remain seated--in your movie aisle and zorch him with 200 lumens. Where do you reckon all his attention goes? What have you done to prevent him from shooting? What have you done in that press of bodies to not be where you just advertised? What have you dine to prevent the other patrons in that vicinity from being riddled? Let's not forget that he's under no obligation to acquire a clean sight picture, and he's free to do a mag dump in the rough area where he saw the light.

I'm willing to bet that our SEAL poster hasn't made a habit of advertising his position to the other side on a two-way range. Why he'd advocate doing that on a one-way range is a bit of a mystery.

Go ahead: play this FoF and see if it's viable.
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Old 07-31-2012, 14:38   #6
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Lighting is a very useful tool if used correctly. To simply stand your ground and light the guy up is an improper use of the tactic and tool.

Just like shoot and move, you light and (release then) move. You bring up a good point that you don't want to endanger others by bringing hostile fire to them, so you would move to avoid that issue before employing this tactic.

BTW, this is best used at closer range....

And, yes, I have "played" this....

Last edited by LHC30; 07-31-2012 at 14:39..
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:20   #7
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Good article and some interesting take aways.

I've faced a high intensity flashlight in FoF. It will blow night vision out for at least a minute or two. We used a 300 lumen tac light. A 500 focused would be far worse and effective at greater distances imo.

Regardeless of what you do afterwards it's nice to have the opponent blinded first. Best if combined with another weapon such as a handgun but if all you got is a tac light, use it.
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Old 08-01-2012, 17:49   #8
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I think it's good advise. Of course don't spotlight the shooter from across the theater, that would be saying "hey, over here", but if he's just about on you, you can flash him, then make your move.

Also, if the attacker is right up on you, charging him rapidly would be better than just laying there so he could execute you. IF say a bunch, or even just a few people rushed him when he first came in, a lot less people would have been killed. Especially considering that he threw the tear gas first, someone could have knocked down and at least pinned him, making him unable to get his weapon.

I'm NOT talking about being a hero, I'm talking about being like a cat. A cat will flee, but when cornered.... well nothing fights like a cornered cat.
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Old 08-01-2012, 20:05   #9
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I'm a flashlight geek (kinda a lighting geek in-general, my car has a ridiculous set of Hella driving lamps supporting its HID-lo/HIR-hi setup Tactics and Training; for years, I carried a Surefire E2D, recently, though, I switched to a Z2S-LED w/X-Concealment clip - and even more recently, a Surefire LX2), and I've had some low-light training (no, not just me running around in the dark by myself, but actual training that I paid for, with vetted qualified instructors - I figure that if I'm bumping around in the dark with a live gun, I should probably get some instruction to be able to do it at least semi-right). I always have a decent light on my person, and I've been in enough weird and unexpected situations where my light(s) have come in handy, that I really respect the wisdom of never leaving home without it, even in broad daylight.


Like I said, I've done some low-light training, but I've never encountered smoke. Sure, there's a bit of gunsmoke, but what I'm interested in is the type of scenario that, hypothetically (since there's still no true picture yet, as vetted reports are, I'd imagine, forthcoming based on ongoing investigations), the innocents in the Aurora theater faced.

I know from what little training that I've had that yes, there can be "too much light" when it comes to close quarters: a very powerful light can cause the shooter discomfort or even momentarily self-blind given reflections from typical home decorations, furniture, and appliances - even white walls can cause such back-scatter effect.

Similarly, I know from some two decade's worth and well over 2 million miles of driving that in thick fog as well as snow, that there can be too much light for such situations, too.

I'm also a nerdy flashlight collector , and therefore have tried to search up some past posts about such concerns. The closest I could get was:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...-through-smoke - which internally references: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...45#post2653045

and also:


Through these threads, I read both what makes sense to me, instinctively - i.e. a light with a tighter output will be better at controlling back-scatter than one with a broad spill (which should work well for our needs, as, typically, most modern "tactical flashlights" offer a rather tight throw); as well as things which are contradictory - that you want to throw as much light forward as possible, but at the same time, too much light is just gonna splash back and blind you with backs-catter, because as physics would demonstrate, you simply can't "cut through" smoke.

One of the firefighters mentioned that you'll want to make sure that the helmet-light chosen isn't obnoxiously bright, that it would blind the team-mates that you're talking to. At first pass, my thought is that's great validation for carrying as bright of a light as you can - but that thought is tempered by the other observations above, as well as by the further question of, if that is indeed the case, then how close do you need to be to this other person, to blind him (as it's implied in said post that the firefighter you'd be blinding would be a team-mate standing close to you)?

Tactically, yet another thought springs to-mind: if the environment is disruptive already, then could a strobing technique be used to hopefully confuse the aggressor even more? Or would this not even be worth worrying about, as the muzzle blast of the shooter's firearm(s) likely is already providing for that effect, to begin with, in the darkened and smoky theater?

These are questions which I've never thought of before this tragic incident.

Like I said, sure, I've had low-light shooting instruction - and yes, in one case, there was plenty of rain to deal with, too (ambient conditions that night [outdoor shoot-house] actually seemed to magnify the gun-smoke that lingered after each muzzle-blast)...but I've never practiced in a dark and really smoky environment. Sure there was plenty of gun-smoke, but that's nowhere even near the same amount of smoke I've experienced in various airsoft and paintball games, as a part of their FX.

What is my light really capable of? How can I best exploit its capabilities?
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