Question for computer field IT workers

razageorge · 07-10-2012, 08:03

Is a 4 year BS degree in computer science necessary or just try to get certain certifications, for the job you have/want?

Whats the most direct/fastest route to do this?

If you had to do it over again based on what you know and experience you gained, what would you do?

Thanks.

captainstormy · 07-10-2012, 09:49

Pretty much every job posting I've seen wanted someone to have a degree.

Chiefret · 07-10-2012, 12:47

When I retired from the US Navy I decided to enter the IT field. I did not have any professional experience in the field. However, I did have some OJT in basic troubleshooting before escalating issues to desktop support. About 8 months before I retired I attended classes to obtain my MCSE, (this was twelve years ago, NT4). Long story short, I believe my military experience along with the certification opened the door to the IT industry for me.

captainstormy · 07-10-2012, 12:54

It also depends on what part of the fields. IT is very vauge. I work in software development and every job opening I've seen requires a degree.

If your looking at hardware/networking or something lime that then certifications may be all that's required.

Chesafreak · 07-10-2012, 13:31

It depends on your IT specialty. Help Desk, Networking, and Systems Admins can get by without a degree with certifications and experience. Most others need a degree.

The most direct/fastest route would be certification.
I think that the fastest way into the IT field without a degree is through Cisco certifications like CCNA. Many community colleges have Cisco academies where you can learn networking and get your CCNA.

In my office we have one 3 out of 7 with no degree. They are: help desk tech (goes to college at night), DBA/Web admin, and believe it or not the CIO. The DBA/Web admin was already working for the firm as a secretary and was already playing around with web design when the need arose and she was in the right place at the right time. The CIO has a LOT of experience and made a lateral transfer into IT management because she was the right person in the right place at the right time.

While you can get a job without a degree, you are usually limited in advancement without one. Our CIO is the exception to the rule and very rare. I know a guy in IT management with little tech experience who has a degree and is in charge of many people with certs and much more experience than he has but no degree.

mdisher · 07-10-2012, 13:36

*Usually* A job will require a 4 year degree or adequate experience.

It will ALWAYS be harder to get in the door w/o a degree but it can be done, if you have the experience, or skills and can demonstrate that.

3 of our Brightest developers have degrees in let's see; Culinary, Architecture, and History, they are not CS majors. But they are super-nerds.

Again, it's not impossible, but it does help. At the end of the day I am far more interested in people who can do their jobs, get stuff done and make us (and them) money.

A degree does not guarantee that anyone is capable of doing any of that.

WiskyT · 07-10-2012, 17:11

My brother had his own small IT company. He deliberately passed over resumes with bachelors or graduate degrees. They demand too high pay and their college education was either out of date or irrelevant for his needs. My brother is Ivy league educated as an engineer/computer science. He worked in software development, but soon got into sales which better suited his personality.

stolivar · 07-10-2012, 19:58

How much you can make really depends on a degree.

Without it you will probably make around 25,000 less a year or more.

steve

Toyman · 07-11-2012, 05:33

I've been writing software professionally for over 20 years. The one thing I wish I had right now is a degree.

I've made great money, and worked for great companies - but it's mostly because of luck and timing that I got where I am without a degree, I don't think it would be nearly as easy now days.

Chesafreak · 07-11-2012, 07:23

Typically it takes a long time to go from nothing to a degree and enough experience in IT to make a good living.

If you really need to get up to speed quickly:

Get the Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA) certification and get into networking, then go to college for your degree. You can't fake it and get a Cisco cert and employers know that. You can get all the experience you need to get employed as well as the CCNA at any Cisco academy. I know many network engineers with Cisco certs without a degree who make a good living. CCNA is one of the higher paid entry level certs. I know one guy who is a CCIE who makes six figures without a degree. It will not be an easy career track.

Jon_R · 07-11-2012, 21:07

A degree helps get started. I run an IT operations team (6 people) everyone has a bachelors and I have a masters. Everyone but one (history) has a technical degree (engineering or management of information systems). It is also a company culture issue. ~98% of the employees have a bachelors with about 20% having graduate degrees.

I only hire people with degrees though my turn over is none so have not hired in a long time. The new guy has been there 8 years. I like the degree because I know it takes some self motivation to complete it. It requires the ability to organize, plan, and complete something significant over a long period of time. I know it is not easy and if you don't have any drive you will not finish it.

To go with the degree I look a little at the resume I mostly focus on determining if they have done anything and / or actually no how to do things I care about.

There are many in IT back end systems I have found do little more then manage vendors or do exactly what they are told. They either find a problem call the vendor and tell them. They come fix it or tell the person what exactly to do. Or they work as a tech with someone else with skills telling them how to fix it. You have to bring to the table the ability to figure out complex not seen before problems and fix it.

Ability to logically troubleshoot is critical and hard to teach.

I just go into the interview to determine if they can troubleshoot and that they actually know their stuff or are trying to BS it all.

Good luck. I have been in IT Network, System, Security Administration since 1994.

The CCNA is a good one hard to BS through it and you learn the OSI layers. Nothing is so frustrating as talking to someone who says they are a network engineer that has no idea how a network works. If you think it is just magic it wont go well.

The entry level Microsoft ones don't impress me much but if you go through the entire MCSE that is pretty good. My staff have tons of certs. I have none. They got their certs when I tell them to get X and I will buy you a book and give you a week or two at home to pass the exam and some gear to play with. Not a big fan of the class designed to pass the test.

DoubleWide · 07-17-2012, 19:13

While it's not impossible to get a job, not having a 4 year degree will put up serious roadblocks in getting a job or moving up in a department after getting one. Some businesses won't look at you for a position or a promomtion without one.

Obviously, it's a 4 year wait. If you can get a really good cert like CCNA then get a job and work on your degree while you're working while hopefully getting the company to pay for it.

theAlgorithmist · 07-18-2012, 14:09

Without a track record, experience, or other significant accomplishment to bring to the table, you'll probably need that degree to get your foot in the door. Networking with profs and other students might be helpful in getting the desired position you want as well.

good luck!

themiller · 07-18-2012, 22:40

CS degree if you want to program. Otherwise, read on.

HR doesn't even pass on the resumes for those people who don't have degrees. BA/BS minimum, MA preferred. It doesn't matter what the degree is in. I have found that people without degrees typically don't have the ability to execute or to think logically. Most importantly, I have found that they are usually unreliable, have more personal baggage, and have a hard time communicating. I am not the only person in the hiring chain with this opinion.

I'm not sure how old you are - but I have gotten several promotions in just a few short years out of college. For what it is worth, breaking into the 100,000+ income level by the time you are 30 in IT is still pretty achievable. I spent just about every night and weekend for two years studying for vendor exams. After getting most of my midlevel certs across the board, I decided I needed some additional business skills. I'm now in an MBA program (while working full time) and expect that to pay off handsomly as well.

Get with a reputable consulting company, and work your way up to architect of something. If networking - set your eyes on the CCIE (CCENT->CCNA->CCNP->CCIE). If Systems - set your eyes on the MCA (MCTS->MCITP->MCITP:EA->MCA). The little certs along the way will help you focus, and gain forward momentum in your career. Think of them as necessary investments - don't use the excuse that your company "won't pay" or "they're too easy". Pay for them yourself if you have to, just keep at it.

Biggest thing of all - setup a home lab. There is a big difference between someone who has done something, and someone who has read something. It will come out in the interview. Don't wait for the opportunities to learn to come out at your job.

EDIT: If you come out of college with a few certs, some helpdesk experience at college, and live in a major metro area - expect 55-60k starting and (more importantly) to be at the top of a hiring list for an entry level position.

If you can work full time at a company during college (4-6 years), and get mid-level certified, expect to bump into the 70-85k range as a Sr. Admin of something. That is the only thing I would have done differently. I did residential consulting in college, and while it paid very well, I missed out on a lot of corporate experience that would have further accelerated my career.

***MikeG22*** · 07-22-2012, 15:25

The above post is solid. If you are trying to break into it a degree will never hurt you. As time goes on experience trumps a degree. If you are going to school get a part time job or internship at a consulting company if possible. You will likely have far more opportunity to get your hands on higher level systems that could be tough to be allowed to if you took a strictly helpdesk role. Do it for free if you can't get the job otherwise as an internship. If you are a rockstar during there is a great chance you'll get hired on when they realize or when you go into an interview you'll actually be able to say you've done work on a broad range of technology. When you have some combination of all the above you become much more valuable. We have a bunch of open positions all over the country and struggle to find anyone qualified for the job. (SMB systems/network engineers) We'll get people who went to cert. academy deals and managed to brain dump the tests and get certified but have zero experience and that's a very risky bet.
The more well rounded you can make yourself the better off you will be. The degree, like anything shows commitment to something and has value starting off. I have my degree in MIS which was a fine route and I'm glad I did it. You get some business classes and some programming and can give you a taste. Not really all that useful for the specific job but it teaches you critical thinking and problem solving which is something you'll need to do. If you wanted to go into programming you really will want and need a degree as that will be much more directly related to the job.