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Old 07-09-2012, 21:50   #51
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Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
Some will come along shortly and tell you how great it was to be a slave even though you had no freedom and were owned as property. Then they will go to the next thread and pound their chest proclaiming themself as freedom lovers.
No kidding. They never see the irony of saying the war was all about "states rights" over the ability for states to say one human can own another human.

I think it is just post-war guilt over fighting for the right to own another human. Kind of like how the Japanese have never apologized about the war they started.
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Old 07-09-2012, 21:51   #52
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All speculation asside the fact is Lincoln trampled all over the constitution and did more far more damage to our country than the CSA leaving ever could have.
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Old 07-09-2012, 21:53   #53
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Originally Posted by G26S239 View Post
The fact is that the slave holding oligarchy was willing to provoke a war and sacrifice a few hundred thousand lives to found a country that had slave ownership as its cornerstone as defined by CSA Vice President Alexander H. Stephens
"Our new government is founded on exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition."
http://www.teachingamericanhistory.o...cumentprint=76
Dance around that all you want. Article 1 Section 9.4 was not an after thought. It was put in the CSA Constitution after careful consideration.


Ok..I'll play.

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I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races—that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.” -

Abraham Lincoln, 1858

Yeah buddy...straight from "honest Abe's" lips...

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Old 07-09-2012, 21:55   #54
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What do you think would have happened to the slaves?

Honest question. I doubt that the owners planned to just set them all fre.


Saying the war was about slavery is certainly oversimplifying it immensely... but saying it didn't have anything to do with slavery is just lying.

I bet the slaves would have loved to be able to walk off the job with no notice.
I think the slaves would have to be better educated to be able to work in factories. It is one thing to farm, it is another to keep a factory going. Not mention factories tend to be in cities. Can you imagine gentle townsfolk wanting to see slaves being flogged for reading? Slaves could also more easily escape in the city.
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Old 07-09-2012, 21:55   #55
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The south ceceeded over the unbalance of power in congress bettween the slave states and free states.

The North waged war not over slavery but over their ideal of tyrannical federal edict over the (up until 1864) sovergien states that made up the union.

What people fail to recognize or understand is each state had as much right to leave the union as the USA should have today to leave the UN.
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Old 07-09-2012, 21:56   #56
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Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
I've done a lot of research on this subject. As a matter of fact, my minor is in history.

I conclude that if the South had won, we would all be eating fried chicken, mashed potatoes, and black eyed peas every day.
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That made me laugh! And that's what you edited it to, so I almost wonder what it said for those brief minutes. haha
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Old 07-09-2012, 21:57   #57
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Yeah buddy...straight from "honest Abe's" lips...
What does that prove?

When did this become about "things Lincoln said"?
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:00   #58
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Originally Posted by Cali-Glock View Post
The south ceceeded over the unbalance of power in congress bettween the slave states and free states.

The North waged war not over slavery but over their ideal of tyrannical federal edict over the (up until 1864) sovergien states that made up the union.

What people fail to recognize or understand is each state had as much right to leave the union as the USA should have today to leave the UN.

The CSA had no more right to leave the USA, than a city has the right to declare itself a separate state.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:01   #59
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But how would have the world wars turned out without a United States to throw in it's full support?
WWI we didn't really do much. Both sides were pretty much bled white. We just threw some fresh faced kids in there that broke the stalemate. Plus British armor was a huge advantage. Essentially rolling pill boxes.

WWII it really wouldn't have matter. I think the CSA, even if it existed then would consist of a few hard core states in the south. Think LA, AL, GA, etc. The aresenal of democracy is what won that war. We may laugh at Detroit now but then they saved the world. lt is also interesting to note is that a lot of blacks went north in the 1920s to work in factories. Think runaway slaves in those factories.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:03   #60
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Originally Posted by RustyShackelford View Post
That made me laugh! And that's what you edited it to, so I almost wonder what it said for those brief minutes. haha
I added black eyed peas. Can't forget those now, can we...

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Old 07-09-2012, 22:15   #61
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Originally Posted by Cali-Glock View Post
The south ceceeded over the unbalance of power in congress bettween the slave states and free states.
As a matter of fact Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas each drew up a declaration of their reasons to secede. Northern interference in their right to have slaves was listed as the primary cause in every such declaration. Read it yourself http://www.sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html

As far as the balance of power between slave and non slave states how about the slave holding states counting slaves as 3/5s of a man for purposes of congressional apportionment? For 72 years they got away with having greater than their fair share of congressional reps by inflating their numbers that way. The South was all about being underhanded when it suited them.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:17   #62
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Ted Nugent wonders would U.S. be better 'had the South won the Civil War'

Hell yes!!!!!
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:18   #63
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As a matter of fact Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas each drew up a declaration of their reasons to secede. Northern interference in their right to have slaves was listed as the primary cause in every such declaration. Read it yourself http://www.sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html

As far as the balance of power between slave and non slave states how about the slave holding states counting slaves as 3/5s of a man for purposes of congressional apportionment? For 72 years they got away with having greater than their fair share of congressional reps by inflating their numbers that way. The South was all about being underhanded when it suited them.
You are absolutely correct. And these 3/5ths people gave the slave owners what is called slave power.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:24   #64
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I wonder if he will ever abide by hunting laws.
Ted is a model for conservation and game management, and on two occasions, he's been hauled up on charges that were clearly politically based. His bait hunting charge in California was an aberration, because hunting over bait is rarely illegal, and hunting using attractants (scents) is a well established and legal method. California outlawed certain methods using the same logic governing the size of 1911 handguns, to wit: nancy boy politicians caving to special interests and passing bad legislation.

The incident with his hunting bear in Alaska exposed a "gotcha" method of entrapping tourist hunters according to Alaska Division of Wildlife laws. And it's a stupid law, specifically that a bad shot/probable miss is considered a kill, thus your tag is filled, even if the animal was lost.

In either case, were it to happen to you, I sincerely doubt you'd be accusing yourself of violating game laws. Quite the opposite, in fact. Go ahead and tell me you don't hunt, it won't make any difference in how your nitwittery will be received.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:26   #65
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Ted is a model for conservation and game management, and on two occasions, he's been hauled up on charges that were clearly politically based. His bait hunting charge in California was an aberration, because hunting over bait is rarely illegal, and hunting using attractants (scents) is a well established and legal method. California outlawed certain methods using the same logic governing the size of 1911 handguns, to wit: nancy boy politicians caving to special interests and passing bad legislation.

The incident with his hunting bear in Alaska exposed a "gotcha" method of entrapping tourist hunters according to Alaska Division of Wildlife laws. And it's a stupid law, specifically that a bad shot/probable miss is considered a kill, thus your tag is filled, even if the animal was lost.

In either case, were it to happen to you, I sincerely doubt you'd be accusing yourself of violating game laws. Quite the opposite, in fact. Go ahead and tell me you don't hunt, it won't make any difference in how your nitwittery will be received.
I don't hunt.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:27   #66
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But how would have the world wars turned out without a United States to throw in it's full support?
Alliances remain strong, despite internal differences of assorted nations. Canada, Britain, and especially Australia have always allied themselves with the USA in every conflict since the beginning of the 20th century. In fact, many Americans enlisted in the Canadian forces in order to fight in WWI while the US remained neutral at the beginning.

As to results, who knows? Lee was not supposed to lose at Gettysburg, but lots of seemingly insignificant circumstances led to his defeat there.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:31   #67
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Had the CSA not been defeated slavery would have remained the law of the land under Article 1 Section 9.4 No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

http://www.usconstitution.net/csa.html

Also see Article 6 Section 3 Supremacy Of The Constitution.
With respect, I doubt that... the forces that led to Prohibition were just as strong and "valid" as those that supported slavery, and it led to an actual amendment to the US Constitution. This also led to an other amendment, one which repealed the other.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:31   #68
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Originally Posted by Arquebus12 View Post
Ted is a model for conservation and game management, and on two occasions, he's been hauled up on charges that were clearly politically based. His bait hunting charge in California was an aberration, because hunting over bait is rarely illegal, and hunting using attractants (scents) is a well established and legal method. California outlawed certain methods using the same logic governing the size of 1911 handguns, to wit: nancy boy politicians caving to special interests and passing bad legislation.

The incident with his hunting bear in Alaska exposed a "gotcha" method of entrapping tourist hunters according to Alaska Division of Wildlife laws. And it's a stupid law, specifically that a bad shot/probable miss is considered a kill, thus your tag is filled, even if the animal was lost.

In either case, were it to happen to you, I sincerely doubt you'd be accusing yourself of violating game laws. Quite the opposite, in fact. Go ahead and tell me you don't hunt, it won't make any difference in how your nitwittery will be received.

Its fine and all to make excuses, but they still don't fly.

Its a hunters obligation to know the laws pertaining to the area he is hunting. There was nothing "entraping" about it. Ted ran afoul of the law, because he cares more about making a buck, and selling his show, than being an ethical sportsman.


Ted has shown, over and over, that he thinks himself over and above the law.


The fact that you would consider a hit, but not recovered animal as not filling your tag, and then say that a law to the otherwise, is stupid, pretty much explains what kind if sportsman, no ahem, MAN you are, or in this case, aren't.


Ted is a POS, a poacher, and a repeat offending dirt bag.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:32   #69
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I don't hunt.
Thank you for your little contribution.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:33   #70
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The CSA had no more right to leave the USA, than a city has the right to declare itself a separate state.
This country was founded as thirteen sovereign nations, who voluntarily formed a union for purposes of a common defense, negotiations with non-union nations and eventually a common currency. Each subsequent nation which was added to the union held the same rights. Voluntarily joined, with the rights to voluntarily leave. Some of those nations (Texas) were not as trusting and insisted that this right be expressly put into the terms of their contract in joining the union, but legally it was not actually necessary.

Of course the war of northern aggression changed all of this. From that point forward we were (and are) no longer united states, but instead a SINGLE state with subservient provinces.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:35   #71
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I simply wonder if Vietnam would have turned out better had Ted Nugent served. HH
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:35   #72
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The fact that you would consider a hit, but not recovered animal as not filling your tag, and then say that a law to the otherwise, is stupid, pretty much explains what kind if sportsman, no ahem, MAN you are, or in this case, aren't.

You and I have respectfully clashed on a few issues in the past, and I'm okay with it, but you just crossed the line by getting personal with me, Junior.

I don't know, nor care, if you hunt. But if you tell me you fire and not make a recovery at a game animal, then consequently consider that a filled tag, I'll look you in the eye and call you a damned liar.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:37   #73
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This country was founded as thirteen sovereign nations, who voluntarily formed a union for purposes of a common defense, negotiations with non-union nations and eventually a common currency. Each subsequent nation which was added to the union held the same rights. Voluntarily joined, with the rights to voluntarily leave. Some of those nations (Texas) were not as trusting and insisted that this right be expressly put into the terms of their contract in joining the union, but legally it was not actually necessary.

Of course the war of northern aggression changed all of this. From that point forward we were (and are) no longer united states, but instead a SINGLE state with subservient provinces.

The Supreme Court, has ruled that they did not then, nor now, or ever, had the right to leave.

Since the SC, was and continues to be the highest level of decision making in such matters, the truth is, they did not, no matter how you spin it, have such a right.

For better or worse, they joined the Union, they became part of the Nation, and they lost the right to decide to go a different path, after they accepted the advantages of said membership.
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Old 07-09-2012, 22:47   #74
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You and I have respectfully clashed on a few issues in the past, and I'm okay with it, but you just crossed the line by getting personal with me, Junior.

I don't know, nor care, if you hunt. But if you tell me you fire and not make a recovery at a game animal, then consequently consider that a filled tag, I'll look you in the eye and call you a damned liar.

Don't get upset with me, for a (perceived) lack of character or insult on your part.

I did not insult you, unless you took it as such, or I struck on something you're ashamed of. Unless you've hit, and not claimed an animal upon one of your tags, there was no questioning of YOUR character sir. Mr Nudgent's however, we have a long track record of we can make judgment upon.


If you're going to go through with the act of shooting an animal, you need to be in, or out, whole hog. If you'll kill a game animal, you need to put in the effort to recover said animal.


I've never lost, or failed to kill an animal I've pulled the trigger on. The act of shooting, is a commitment, upon the sportsman's part. Now I do understand that it is not always possible to recover an animal.

Bad shots happen, even to the best of us. I myself have made hits that were less than the immediately fatal shot I had planned.

However, if you kill the animal, recovered or not, you killed the allotted animal for your tag. There is no way you can argue it.

The permit is not, to recover 1 animal, but a license, and agreement upon your part to KILL the legal number of animals it stands for
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Old 07-09-2012, 23:02   #75
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The fact that you would consider a hit, but not recovered animal as not filling your tag, and then say that a law to the otherwise, is stupid, pretty much explains what kind if sportsman, no ahem, MAN you are, or in this case, aren't.
You're not talking your way out of this, son. I've taken game, and I've lost game. I've lost game after tracking a bad bow shot longer than some people have hunted. You got a perfect record? Congratulations, you've done well for yourself. But the license is for the harvesting of game, not for the killing it, as you suggested. There's nothing in any game laws that says you have to be a good shot nor a good tracker, just that you have an obligation to be the best you can be, and I have strived mightily to that end. The reason why is because that's what a real man does, and I'll not settle for less. Tp that end, I have excelled.

I've been hunting longer than you've been alive, Junior. I'm prepared to forgive the fact that you don't know me and the depth of the responsibility and spirituality I assign to the pursuit of game. You imply to me that I'm anything less, and you and I are going to have deep and bitter problems. Reread what you wrote, and imagine it had been directed at you.

You ever make a veiled accusation like you did in the quote above again, and I'll advise you to not go out of your way to ever meet me in person.
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