GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-09-2012, 20:56   #41
Detectorist
Senior Member
 
Detectorist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 8,096
I've done a lot of research on this subject. As a matter of fact, my minor is in history.

I conclude that if the South had won, we would all be eating fried chicken, mashed potatoes, and black eyed peas every day.
__________________
NASM-Certified Personal Trainer

The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. George Bernard Shaw

Last edited by Detectorist; 07-09-2012 at 21:07..
Detectorist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 20:58   #42
tantrix
J'aimeLouisiane
 
tantrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Louisiana, CSA
Posts: 9,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naelbis View Post
This is not certain as there was a very real move in relgious circles to abolish slavery anyway. Many of the great leaders of the South were fundamentally opposed to slavery on religious grounds. It is not unreasonable to assume that a constitutional amendment ending slavery was inevitable as societial attitudes evolved.
Of course slavery would have ended...the Northern Sympathizers just have to find a way to justify Union troops raping Southern women and burning their husbands and kids alive.
tantrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:01   #43
SpoiledBySig
Senior Member
 
SpoiledBySig's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Port St. Lucie, FL
Posts: 1,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naelbis View Post
Actually pretty much every honest historian agrees that slavery would have ended within a few decades anyway. Industrialization and evolving religious mores would have seen to that. And since Reconstruction wouldn't have been imposed on the South much of the social upheaval that led to religious strife may not have happened as attitudes and social structure changed over a longer period.


This was a very good analysis. Hard to argue with.

Good job Naelbis.
__________________
That's my story...and i'm stickin' to it!!!
SpoiledBySig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:09   #44
Detectorist
Senior Member
 
Detectorist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 8,096
Quote:
Originally Posted by tantrix View Post
Of course slavery would have ended...the Northern Sympathizers just have to find a way to justify Union troops raping Southern women and burning their husbands and kids alive.
You mean as opposed to guys like Bill Anderson doing it?
__________________
NASM-Certified Personal Trainer

The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. George Bernard Shaw
Detectorist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:21   #45
G26S239
NRA Patron
 
G26S239's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: PRK
Posts: 10,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naelbis View Post
This is not certain as there was a very real move in relgious circles to abolish slavery anyway. Many of the great leaders of the South were fundamentally opposed to slavery on religious grounds. It is not unreasonable to assume that a constitutional amendment ending slavery was inevitable as societial attitudes evolved.
The fact is that the slave holding oligarchy was willing to provoke a war and sacrifice a few hundred thousand lives to found a country that had slave ownership as its cornerstone as defined by CSA Vice President Alexander H. Stephens
"Our new government is founded on exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition."
http://www.teachingamericanhistory.o...cumentprint=76
Dance around that all you want. Article 1 Section 9.4 was not an after thought. It was put in the CSA Constitution after careful consideration.
__________________
Glock 17, 19, 21, 26 X 2, 32 and 36.
Proud member of the PigPen. Embrace the Pignose.

Last edited by G26S239; 07-09-2012 at 21:22..
G26S239 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:27   #46
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
This is how I've always understood it. Lincoln had reports that slavery was going to end because it was easier/cheaper to automate the work that slaves were doing anyway.
What do you think would have happened to the slaves?

Honest question. I doubt that the owners planned to just set them all fre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JW1178 View Post
Shhhh..... you are speaking the truth! Saying it was over slavery turns a rather illegal invasion of the CSA by the USA into a moral cause
Saying the war was about slavery is certainly oversimplifying it immensely... but saying it didn't have anything to do with slavery is just lying.

I bet the slaves would have loved to be able to walk off the job with no notice.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:30   #47
NeverMore1701
Platinum Membership
Fear no evil.
 
NeverMore1701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Amarillo, Tx
Posts: 29,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogfish View Post
So much hate towards this great country.
Have you seen the state of this country recently?
__________________
And if we should die tonight
We should all die together
Raise a glass of wine
For the last time
NeverMore1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:35   #48
MulletLoad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Outer Marker
Posts: 1,141
Just wondering how many of you ass clowns would have accepted living under slavery for "a few decades" until it faded away instead of ending it in the Civil War.

Great idea unless you're one of the slaves who would have had 2 generations to live under until it was abolished.
MulletLoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:35   #49
ray9898
Senior Member
 
ray9898's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Georgia
Posts: 17,559


Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
I bet the slaves would have loved to be able to walk off the job with no notice.

Some will come along shortly and tell you how great it was to be a slave even though you had no freedom and were owned as property. Then they will go to the next thread and pound their chest proclaiming themself as freedom lovers.
ray9898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:45   #50
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,644
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
Healthier maybe, but not better.


I wounder if Ted would have been a better person, if he'd gone to war?
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:50   #51
CAcop
Senior Member
 
CAcop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 21,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
Some will come along shortly and tell you how great it was to be a slave even though you had no freedom and were owned as property. Then they will go to the next thread and pound their chest proclaiming themself as freedom lovers.
No kidding. They never see the irony of saying the war was all about "states rights" over the ability for states to say one human can own another human.

I think it is just post-war guilt over fighting for the right to own another human. Kind of like how the Japanese have never apologized about the war they started.
__________________
I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
CAcop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:51   #52
Cali-Glock
Mountain Man
 
Cali-Glock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California Sierra Mnts
Posts: 11,891
All speculation asside the fact is Lincoln trampled all over the constitution and did more far more damage to our country than the CSA leaving ever could have.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

I may be from Cali, but I ain't no yankee!

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Mal Reynolds
Cali-Glock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:53   #53
tantrix
J'aimeLouisiane
 
tantrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Louisiana, CSA
Posts: 9,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by G26S239 View Post
The fact is that the slave holding oligarchy was willing to provoke a war and sacrifice a few hundred thousand lives to found a country that had slave ownership as its cornerstone as defined by CSA Vice President Alexander H. Stephens
"Our new government is founded on exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition."
http://www.teachingamericanhistory.o...cumentprint=76
Dance around that all you want. Article 1 Section 9.4 was not an after thought. It was put in the CSA Constitution after careful consideration.


Ok..I'll play.

Quote:
I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races—that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.” -

Abraham Lincoln, 1858

Yeah buddy...straight from "honest Abe's" lips...

Last edited by tantrix; 07-09-2012 at 21:54..
tantrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:55   #54
CAcop
Senior Member
 
CAcop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 21,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
What do you think would have happened to the slaves?

Honest question. I doubt that the owners planned to just set them all fre.


Saying the war was about slavery is certainly oversimplifying it immensely... but saying it didn't have anything to do with slavery is just lying.

I bet the slaves would have loved to be able to walk off the job with no notice.
I think the slaves would have to be better educated to be able to work in factories. It is one thing to farm, it is another to keep a factory going. Not mention factories tend to be in cities. Can you imagine gentle townsfolk wanting to see slaves being flogged for reading? Slaves could also more easily escape in the city.
__________________
I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
CAcop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:55   #55
Cali-Glock
Mountain Man
 
Cali-Glock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: California Sierra Mnts
Posts: 11,891
The south ceceeded over the unbalance of power in congress bettween the slave states and free states.

The North waged war not over slavery but over their ideal of tyrannical federal edict over the (up until 1864) sovergien states that made up the union.

What people fail to recognize or understand is each state had as much right to leave the union as the USA should have today to leave the UN.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

I may be from Cali, but I ain't no yankee!

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Mal Reynolds
Cali-Glock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:56   #56
RustyShackelford
> OD Glock 32 <
 
RustyShackelford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 46148
Posts: 4,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
I've done a lot of research on this subject. As a matter of fact, my minor is in history.

I conclude that if the South had won, we would all be eating fried chicken, mashed potatoes, and black eyed peas every day.
__________________________
Last edited by Detectorist; Today at 23:07..
That made me laugh! And that's what you edited it to, so I almost wonder what it said for those brief minutes. haha
__________________
TOP GUN 357SIG, Florida Glocker Clubs member #420

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
, straight stock (so far)
----------------------------
Ray Zalinsky: "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public."
RustyShackelford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 21:57   #57
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 16,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by tantrix View Post
Yeah buddy...straight from "honest Abe's" lips...
What does that prove?

When did this become about "things Lincoln said"?
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 22:00   #58
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,644
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali-Glock View Post
The south ceceeded over the unbalance of power in congress bettween the slave states and free states.

The North waged war not over slavery but over their ideal of tyrannical federal edict over the (up until 1864) sovergien states that made up the union.

What people fail to recognize or understand is each state had as much right to leave the union as the USA should have today to leave the UN.

The CSA had no more right to leave the USA, than a city has the right to declare itself a separate state.
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 22:01   #59
CAcop
Senior Member
 
CAcop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 21,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank4570 View Post
But how would have the world wars turned out without a United States to throw in it's full support?
WWI we didn't really do much. Both sides were pretty much bled white. We just threw some fresh faced kids in there that broke the stalemate. Plus British armor was a huge advantage. Essentially rolling pill boxes.

WWII it really wouldn't have matter. I think the CSA, even if it existed then would consist of a few hard core states in the south. Think LA, AL, GA, etc. The aresenal of democracy is what won that war. We may laugh at Detroit now but then they saved the world. lt is also interesting to note is that a lot of blacks went north in the 1920s to work in factories. Think runaway slaves in those factories.
__________________
I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
CAcop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 22:03   #60
Detectorist
Senior Member
 
Detectorist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 8,096
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyShackelford View Post
That made me laugh! And that's what you edited it to, so I almost wonder what it said for those brief minutes. haha
I added black eyed peas. Can't forget those now, can we...

__________________
NASM-Certified Personal Trainer

The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. George Bernard Shaw
Detectorist is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:39.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 676
155 Members
521 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42