[Metal Angel]

Can I come live with you Philo? My house is boring. I don't have an indoor range.

I actually WOULD argue that C3 is just as fast as C1 from holster to two hand shots downrange. I used to carry C3 and was just as fast that way. One disadvantage is that you cannot shoot from the hip as you draw the gun, which could make all the difference in a close range encounter. And what if it's raining? Everyone knows you can't rack a Glock unless it's as dry as a popcorn fart!

[Roblamont80]

I keep all of my pistols with one in the hole. I prefer to keep all my handguns in the same state because consistency under stress could save a life. I also feel that the less steps my girlfriend has to worrie about, the more likely she will be able to properly eliminate a threat. When I lived in an apt. I kept one in the chambers because the only difference being in an apt. is that you are more likely to be presented with a bad situation. If we had children I would have to change my protocol for safety. When I have company over, I have lock up everything except my carry pistol. When my little nieces come over I lock up all my guns because I often become a jungle gym!

[Roblamont80]

Originally Posted by Metal Angel

Can I come live with you Philo? My house is boring. I don't have an indoor range.

I actually WOULD argue that C3 is just as fast as C1 from holster to two hand shots downrange. I used to carry C3 and was just as fast that way. One disadvantage is that you cannot shoot from the hip as you draw the gun, which could make all the difference in a close range encounter. And what if it's raining? Everyone knows you can't rack a Glock unless it's as dry as a popcorn fart!

I want to keep the option of using a hand or forearm as a tool to create space if needed. I guess I just see the process of racking the side as a limitation of options in a defensive situation. If you need your firearm to stop a threat, chances are that threat is going to be right up on you, a arm that can defend while the other one delivers rounds to the torso could be the difference between life or death.

[TxDoubleAgent]

C1 Always for me.

[fiveoboy01]

Always a round chambered, whether carrying or in the nightstand.

I think doing so also improves discipline. I'm not worried about it discharging, because knowing there is one in the pipe, I'm sure to keep my damn finger out of the trigger guard and be very cautious when holstering and unholstering, as well as generally handling the pistol.

[Tacoma12]

whatever gun I am currently carrying for the day is fully loaded with a round in the chamber. My nightstand gun, G21, is in my safe fully loaded with a round in the chamber all day until I take it out. The rest of my guns I store unloaded.

[JAS104]

Agree with this.
If you're potentially needing to USE it, then you need to be ready to do so.
If its loungin in the safe, give it the day off.

[certifiedfunds]

Originally Posted by Little Joe

The chamber is always charged. I believe in the old adage that an empty gun is a useless as a dusty Bible.

Not useless. Actually, I'm pretty sure both have been used to beat people over the head lots of times throughout modern history.

[Cavalry Doc]

Originally Posted by JAS104

Agree with this.
If you're potentially needing to USE it, then you need to be ready to do so.
If its loungin in the safe, give it the day off.

You might only need it once. But which once.

Leaving a gun without a round in the chamber isn't much different than trying to buckle your seat belt just before a crash.


Do what you want to do, just make sure it's really what you want to do.

[jph02]

Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer

...Accept that c3 puts you at a tactical disadvantage. But from that admission you can still logically choose c3 for other reasons important to your preferences and priorities

True dat.

Originally Posted by raven_moon

...The briefing; charging a weapon to defend yourself is considered an act of aggression and therefore gives the perp a right to defend his/her self. Each and every state has its own laws and laws follow case law in other states as well as federal.
...
I think this is a personal and important decision for each individual. Understand your weapon, understand your level of skill, understand your level of fitness, understand your level of target acquisition and most of all understand your environment and attention to detail...

Good point and well said. And thank you for your service.

[The Lance]

if you're gonna carry why would you not carry with one in the chamber?

I use to be so adamant about that and was against it until I started carrying on a daily basis.. If you carry with one in the chamber, just always remember to keep your finger off the god damn trigger.. Always. A glock isn't gonna fire unless the trigger gets pulled.. I clean my gun once a week, mainly removing all the lint and dust.. Basic gun safety and vigilance of not touching the trigger is more then safe enough for a 24 year old bachelor in an apartment.

I unfortunately cannot carry at work so my glock 19 has to stay in my glove box during my work hours in my locked car. But I never leave home without it.. Just as much as I wouldn't leave home without my wallet, or cell phone..

[AK_Stick]

Originally Posted by Philo Beddoe

You inadvertantly made his/my point. Training means a lot. Your theory starts with the premise that everyone has the same training. A person who spends a good amount of time training to carry C3 can draw and fire a lot less than 1/2 second slower than the seldom-trained guy carrying C1...if not as fast.

The point being that I realize that, all things equal, C3 is slower. Thus I train like heck in my indoor range at my house. I'd be awful surprised if I can't get my gun in the fight as fast as the average joe who carries C1.

And as for the needing 1 hand theories, remember that I said I taught the martial arts for many years. I'll do a heckuva lot more damage or hold off the BG with 1 foot than 90% of guys will do with that extra hand.

That is my whole point - who can't summarily say C3 is ineffective unless you know the guy's whole situation.

As for experts teaching C3, it's hard to respond to that without being disrespectful to some of them. Suffice that I have a 2nd degree black belt in Ni Gojuryu, but that doesn't mean I'm an expert on taking a punch. Being a gun expert does not make one an expert on all aspects of carry methods exclusive of extenuating circumstances as mentioned above.

I think you throw around an awful lot of stats, and percentages without any backing.

I'd like to see you draw 1 handed, and fire with less than half a second time difference. I've seen Krav Maga instructors who went more than .5 sec slower.



As for the rest of your post, I'm not seeing how we need to see "the guys whole situation" It doesn't make a difference. C3 is always slower, and its always a poorer choice than C1. It was developed, and instructed specifically to address the issues of having lots of armed folks, with minimal training. And thats something that should NOT be the case with CCW.

[TheExplorer]

If I had reaction skills like a pro, I'd consider not having a round chambered. But I don't, so I do. One thing you can bet on is that the bad guy DOES have a round chambered.

[tat2guy]

Originally Posted by fiji_dieselnuts

The NRA Gun Safety Rules and gun manuals say leave a gun unloaded until ready to use. ...

A defensive gun is always ready to use.

[myndset]

One chambered for my carry, unchambered for HD.

[AirborneSurveyor]

When I was in Iraq I only had a M16A2, the FOB I was on was Green (magazine out of all weapons.) You only went Red when you left the wire (magazine in weapon, round in the chamber, weapon on safe.) Rules of Engagement (ROE) you only went Red Direct (weapon off safe in fire.) when fired upon or going to engage the enemy. There was Amber (magazine in weapon only, not charged) but that was never used. You went Green to Red as you left the FOB. During the day I never consider this an issue. But at night during periods of darkness when you can’t see more then a few feet on a blacked out FOB, against regulations; I charged my weapon with a magazine in, weapon at the ready, thumb on the safety, finger off the trigger. When I was in Afghanistan 98% of the FOBs I was at were Red FOBs. I had a M4 with all the Army issue toys and a M9 side arm. At night when my M4 was on my cot or in my room the few times I was at my home FOB. I carried my M9 with a round in the chamber, weapon cocked, safety off, hand on my weapon in its holster. Once again against regulations as you were only supposed to have a magazine in the weapon. If the TB was to try to jump my ass in the dark and drag me off I was going to have my weapon at the utmost ready to fight back. Just because I was pardoned, does not mean someone was not out to get me. I retired from the U.S. Army after 22 years two and a half years ago. I now have a concealed carry permit. I carry a Glock 36 45 ACP (6 standard magazine) with a one round magazine extension. That gives me 7 in the magazine and one in the chamber- 8 total. I also carry two 7 round enhanced magazines. I chose the Glock as it has the Safe Action trigger. It is highly unlikely for something to pull the trigger and fire the weapon accidentally. My finger is the safety. I have never placed my finger on the trigger of a weapon until I was ready to shoot. The gun is in its holster with the trigger protected, when I draw my weapon my finger is extended outside the trigger guard, finger does not go on the trigger until I have aimed the weapon. So my answer to the OP is yes, one in the chamber at all times.

[mikechine]

Why ?

Is the one motion to rack a slide gonna fail every time ?

Yet,

lifting the shirt being careful not to get fabric in the hand, gripping the pistol, clearing the holster, focusing on the front sight, acquiring moving target, assessing whether there are innocents behind the target, squeezing the trigger not jerking...gonna be perfect every time ?

Just wondering..

[Mayhem like Me]

Originally Posted by mikechine

Why ?

Is the one motion to rack a slide gonna fail every time ?

Yet,

lifting the shirt being careful not to get fabric in the hand, gripping the pistol, clearing the holster, focusing on the front sight, acquiring moving target, assessing whether there are innocents behind the target, squeezing the trigger not jerking...gonna be perfect every time ?

Just wondering..

What if your fighting someone off with the charging hand.... that's why.

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[gilgoul]

I got used to carry full mag, empty chamber. I guess it is a question of habit.

[Philo Beddoe]

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

I think you throw around an awful lot of stats, and percentages without any backing.

Yeah, that is exactly what I was saying about so many guys in this thread making a generic statement about "stats show" without being able to provide the stat.

I'd like to see you draw 1 handed, and fire with less than half a second time difference. I've seen Krav Maga instructors who went more than .5 sec slower.

You're still missing the point. The point is that, while I may be slower drawing from C3 than C1, I'm faster than the average joe drawing from C3 when he's drawing from C1.

Yiu guys get too caught up in what is fast enough when so many other factors are more important than that extra 1/2 second.

As for Krav Maga, what does that have to do with it? A Krav Maga master is a damn good fighter, but it doesn't mean he knows beans about carry methods and the fastest way to draw. We teach defense against CQ handgun in the Ni Gojuryu karate system, but that doesn't make us an expert on carry methods. All that training really taught me is that the vast majority of guys have no clue how fast things happen up close, and how useless some of the technique are that you theorize about. Unless you've spend a few hundred hours trying to keep a guy with a blue gun from pointing it at you and saying bang, you're just theorizing about what might work.

And this is a good angle to make my point. Just as with citizens who carry guns, martial arts students have a lot of far out theories about what will and what won't work - theories most of which get debunked the first time they attempt to use their training in real life. We've all seen it on YouTube, and Mas writes about it in In The Gravest Extreme: highly trained cops get in a shootout and much of their training goes right out the window with their bullets flying all around the bad guy from just 10' away. Royler Gracie of the famed Gracie Jui Jutsu aptly explained it this way: If you smack a black belt in the mouth, he becomes a brown belt. Smack him again and he becomes a blue belt.

These theories are all fun and interesting, but many of them do not hold water once the adrenalin begins flowing.

C3 is always slower, and its always a poorer choice than C1.

I'm glad you added that, it makes you seem rigid, unrealistic, and ill-informed.

Why does it bother you so much how other people choose to carry? Do you have so much invested in your theories that you simply refuse to consider new information or another opinion? I don't care if a guy chooses to carry a ripe banana in his holster - it's his decision to make and who am I to judge? Who are you to judge?

[Philo Beddoe]

Originally Posted by TheExplorer

If I had reaction skills like a pro, I'd consider not having a round chambered. But I don't, so I do. One thing you can bet on is that the bad guy DOES have a round chambered.

Well that's a good point.

I guess I'm counting on the fact that I'm much better trained than the bad guy.

And that brings up another point. How fast you get the first bullet fired is far less important than the first bullet hitting the target.

I suspect that a lot of good guys lost firefights using the spray and pray method, rather than collecting themselves just long enough to tap the BG in the chest with 2 rounds.

[Philo Beddoe]

Originally Posted by AirborneSurveyor

When I was in Iraq I only had a M16A2, the FOB I was on was Green (magazine out of all weapons.) You only went Red when you left the wire (magazine in weapon, round in the chamber, weapon on safe.) Rules of Engagement (ROE) you only went Red Direct (weapon off safe in fire.) when fired upon or going to engage the enemy. There was Amber (magazine in weapon only, not charged) but that was never used. You went Green to Red as you left the FOB. During the day I never consider this an issue. But at night during periods of darkness when you can’t see more then a few feet on a blacked out FOB, against regulations; I charged my weapon with a magazine in, weapon at the ready, thumb on the safety, finger off the trigger. When I was in Afghanistan 98% of the FOBs I was at were Red FOBs. I had a M4 with all the Army issue toys and a M9 side arm. At night when my M4 was on my cot or in my room the few times I was at my home FOB. I carried my M9 with a round in the chamber, weapon cocked, safety off, hand on my weapon in its holster. Once again against regulations as you were only supposed to have a magazine in the weapon. If the TB was to try to jump my ass in the dark and drag me off I was going to have my weapon at the utmost ready to fight back. Just because I was pardoned, does not mean someone was not out to get me. I retired from the U.S. Army after 22 years two and a half years ago. I now have a concealed carry permit. I carry a Glock 36 45 ACP (6 standard magazine) with a one round magazine extension. That gives me 7 in the magazine and one in the chamber- 8 total. I also carry two 7 round enhanced magazines. I chose the Glock as it has the Safe Action trigger. It is highly unlikely for something to pull the trigger and fire the weapon accidentally. My finger is the safety. I have never placed my finger on the trigger of a weapon until I was ready to shoot. The gun is in its holster with the trigger protected, when I draw my weapon my finger is extended outside the trigger guard, finger does not go on the trigger until I have aimed the weapon. So my answer to the OP is yes, one in the chamber at all times.

If I had your vast experience, I'd carry my Glock C1, too. But I don't and neither do 99% of the guys carrying.

Thank you for defending our way of life, btw. It's what gives us the right to sit here on a gun forum and offer up our opinions.

I guess each of our life experiences shapes how to view this issue. I guess that my having been involved in and teaching the martial arts for 8 years gives me a lot of confidence in my situational awareness. We spent a lot of time working on how to avoid the fight by paying attention to signals all around you all the time. Right or wrong, that's how I arrived at my opinion on this.

[AirborneSurveyor]

Originally Posted by Philo Beddoe

If I had your vast experience, I'd carry my Glock C1, too. But I don't and neither do 99% of the guys carrying.

Thank you for defending our way of life, btw. It's what gives us the right to sit here on a gun forum and offer up our opinions.

I guess each of our life experiences shapes how to view this issue. I guess that my having been involved in and teaching the martial arts for 8 years gives me a lot of confidence in my situational awareness. We spent a lot of time working on how to avoid the fight by paying attention to signals all around you all the time. Right or wrong, that's how I arrived at my opinion on this.

And that right there is the bottom line, C1 or C3 is a personal choice that you make from your training, experiences, and environment that you live.

[gunner44]

My g17 mag has had 19 down and one in the pipe for years and still feed perfect.

[Philo Beddoe]

Originally Posted by AirborneSurveyor

And that right there is the bottom line, C1 or C3 is a personal choice that you make from your training, experiences, and environment that you live.

Exactly.