[SCmasterblaster]

G17 full mag +1 - totally safe with my Otapin invention.

[Philo Beddoe]

Originally Posted by badge315

It would seem that the only reason to carry with an empty chamber is as a hedge against one's own carelessness. There is absolutely no tactical advantage in doing so.

Agreed.

I make mistakes, maybe you don't. I am extra careful where a mistake can cost somebody's life. And maybe I'm doing things wrong but I unholster/reholster my gun 5-12 (includes getting dressed & un) times each day. One doesn't need an active imagination to visualize the possibility of a droplet of pee ending up where you don't want it. Thus, I unholster my gun, wash my hands, reholster for that process.

But then again, I'm sure someone will come along soon and tell me I'm peeing wrong, too.

[NeverMore1701]

Originally Posted by Philo Beddoe

Agreed.

I make mistakes, maybe you don't. I am extra careful where a mistake can cost somebody's life. And maybe I'm doing things wrong but I unholster/reholster my gun 5-12 (includes getting dressed & un) times each day. One doesn't need an active imagination to visualize the possibility of a droplet of pee ending up where you don't want it. Thus, I unholster my gun, wash my hands, reholster for that process.

But then again, I'm sure someone will come along soon and tell me I'm peeing wrong, too.

I've gone weeks without unholstering my carry gun, and that's carrying it 12-16 hours a day, every day. I'm just confused now.

[Philo Beddoe]

Originally Posted by NeverMore1701

I've gone weeks without unholstering my carry gun, and that's carrying it 12-16 hours a day, every day. I'm just confused now.

I try to unholster my gun a few times each day and wave it around so that people know I'm armed - then I point to my NRA sticker and Glock ballcap and exclaim loudly "See there, mess with me and you get suma this, dawg." I find it's best to do this with a C3 gun.

Ok, maybe not. I do take my gun out of the holster every night, primarily so it can breath and release any moisture and dust that might be stuck between my G26 and Crossbreed.

And this time of year when I sweat, I'll come home and change undershirts to a dry one...I unholster to do that.

I assumed everybody handled their gun several times per day...

[HeliGlock]

Another Thread of the same thing. Ppl check the past Forums,we are beatting to death the same old crap. Do you Carry With 1 in or Out. Pheeeeeeeeeew.

[NeverMore1701]

Originally Posted by Philo Beddoe

I try to unholster my gun a few times each day and wave it around so that people know I'm armed - then I point to my NRA sticker and Glock ballcap and exclaim loudly "See there, mess with me and you get suma this, dawg." I find it's best to do this with a C3 gun.

Ok, maybe not. I do take my gun out of the holster every night, primarily so it can breath and release any moisture and dust that might be stuck between my G26 and Crossbreed.

And this time of year when I sweat, I'll come home and change undershirts to a dry one...I unholster to do that.

I assumed everybody handled their gun several times per day...

Still talking about firearms?

[Little Joe]

I stand by my original statement. Good luck to you.

Originally Posted by Philo Beddoe

First off, I'm not against C1 carry. I carry my P239 and EMP C1, but I will not carry my Glock C1.

It is my opinion that this subject does more to cause confusion for the newbie and to discredit the "gun community."

Chuck Yeager is an awesome pilot, with tens of thousands of hours. So does that make him an expert on emergency engine out procedures and/or crash landings? Nope. Chances are that the lowly CFII with just 3,000 hours is more current with engine out procedures. Well, Yeager may have some experience with those emergencies, but the fact that he is a great pilot means he is also better than most at avoiding those scenarios to begin with.

Not to be disrespectful of some of the more well-known gun experts, but just what is it about that experience that makes them an expert on C1 vs C3? Unless they have multiple actual experiences defending themselves using both methods of carry, their opinion is theory. I know I know, they have stats and the experiences of others which they have been involved with, or studied...but it's not the same.

I think the gun community loses credibility when they make goofy statements like the one at the top. A gun newbie may not have years of experience, but he didn't check his brain at the door when he bought his first gun, and common sense screams at him that much of the C1 vs C3 hullabaloo is theory.

The newbie can do simple math in his head. Simple math tells him that the chance of him EVER having to draw his gun in self defense is remote. Furthering those long odds is the chance that he'll have to draw and actually fire. And if those odds weren't already approaching the same chance of winning Powerball, the chances of those things happening, then C1 saving the day where C3 would not have sufficed, are astronomically remote.

So then Mr. Newbie measures those stats against the 5-12 times each day he administratively handles his gun, holstering, unholstering, taking a leak - and he begins to see that the odds of a ND are far greater than the odds of having C1 save the day.

Now, here is where other goofy comments come in, e.g., keep your booger finger off the bang switch, etc, etc, ad infinitum. That theory is the reserved domain of perfect men who never make a mistake. It is the domain of perfect men who never lock the keys in their pickup, who never trip on a crack in a sidewalk, who have never had a fender bender, or made any other mistake or lapse of judgment of any kind.

The reality is that high time fighter pilots get complacent and fly their jets into the ground. Heck, just several weeks ago a famous airshow pilot I knew (Howard Pardue) killed himself in his famous Bearcat - in spite of countless hours in that aircraft, the "rumor" among expert pilots who watched the crash is that his harness failed at the top of a 1/2 Cuban Eight. Hmmmm, that is an item on the pre-takeoff checklist of every N-numbered aircraft in the US. We're human, we make mistakes. That's what we do. God built us that way.

Now, if you want to carry C1, knock yourself out, I don't care. I do too, with certain guns. But the gun community shouldn't be so quick to make sweeping generalizations that defy common sense, such as the various example of the uselessness of C3. Particularly when harping on good situation awareness has a far better chance of results.

[Bruce M]

Originally Posted by NeverMore1701

Still talking about firearms?

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Originally Posted by Philo Beddoe

I try to unholster my gun a few times each day and wave it around so that people know I'm armed - then I point to my NRA sticker and Glock ballcap and exclaim loudly "See there, mess with me and you get suma this, dawg." I find it's best to do this with a C3 gun.

Ok, maybe not. I do take my gun out of the holster every night, primarily so it can breath and release any moisture and dust that might be stuck between my G26 and Crossbreed.

And this time of year when I sweat, I'll come home and change undershirts to a dry one...I unholster to do that.

I assumed everybody handled their gun several times per day...

Seems like you should only be unholstering 1 time, at the end of the day.

I unholster 0 times, because my gun is kept in a kydex holster. No moisture. But if I thought there was, then it would be 1 time. Unholster, point in safe direction, pull mag, rack round out, (check 2 more times, because I always triple check), then a light cleaning and oiling.

[Metal Angel]

Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer

Seems like you should only be unholstering 1 time, at the end of the day.

I unholster 0 times, because my gun is kept in a kydex holster. No moisture. But if I thought there was, then it would be 1 time. Unholster, point in safe direction, pull mag, rack round out, (check 2 more times, because I always triple check), then a light cleaning and oiling.

What holster do you use? I like my CBST, but it only holds the gun securely when it's in my waistband with belt sinched up. I'm not faulting it for that, it's by design, but I kinda want something that holds it secure if my pants are around my ankles.

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Originally Posted by Metal Angel

What holster do you use? I like my CBST, but it only holds the gun securely when it's in my waistband with belt sinched up. I'm not faulting it for that, it's by design, but I kinda want something that holds it secure if my pants are around my ankles.

The best I've found (practically custom made stuff)
http://www.alabamaholster.com/

The mass produced that I also like, with a thick belt (don't use a thin one with this design).
http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPT3.as...75&CatalogID=7

Plus tons of good stuff out there from other companies too

[jph02]

Originally Posted by Philo Beddoe

My info is just like that presented by the anti-C3 crowd: purely anecdotal.

Ove the years I've read hundreds of stories about attacks, and in my mind with each one I ask myself if C1 would have saved the day.

I have no real stats, nor does the other side.

So, there are no statistics to support C1 vs C3 being more or equally effective in self-defense scenarios. I doubt anyone will question the risk of ND is substantially reduced, almost to nil, when carrying empty chamber. That said, it seems pretty logical to me that carrying with a round reduces the tactical advantage of surprise that, in most cases, goes to the bad guy.

Originally Posted by Philo Beddoe

I'm just sayin':
News Story-Man Shoots Himself in the ***** - YouTube

This is not an argument for C3, this is an argument for properly carrying. The video supposes the guy carried his Glock C1 in his pocket. That's stupid, chamber loaded or not.

In any case, it appears the guy was carrying in his waistband without a holster, which is also questionable. It seems to me he was complacent and mishandled the weapon. Had the weapon been in a proper holster, he would not have pulled the trigger. This incident is more the result of his lack of attention and sense of purpose than it is C1 vs. C3, IMHO.

[Roostmonkey]

Condition 1 with a Glock is a no-brainer in a good holster, as long as you spend time practicing re-holstering, which you shouldn't be doing in a violent situation anyway. You can throw the damn things out of airplanes and they don't fire.

Have you ever actually been the victim of a violent attack? I have been assulted multiple times on the job this year. You do not have as much reaction time as you think.

[Metal Angel]

Originally Posted by Roostmonkey

Condition 1 with a Glock is a no-brainer in a good holster, as long as you spend time practicing re-holstering, which you shouldn't be doing in a violent situation anyway. You can throw the damn things out of airplanes and they don't fire.

Have you ever actually been the victim of a violent attack? I have been assulted multiple times on the job this year. You do not have as much reaction time as you think.

Finally someone who can speak from experience.

[AK_Stick]

Originally Posted by Philo Beddoe

I agree with you. I justy don't care for when guys say that carrying any other way than the way they carry is dumb. People have their own unique reasons for their carry method, and carrying C3 does not imply lack of training nor a brick.

Again, I carry some of my guns C1, but my G26 I carry C3 because it has no external safety and I've heard too many stories about experienced carriers having a ND because the trigger caught on a worn holster as they reholstered, as an example.

I like carrying my gun, it's become a big part of me. I know that the chances are good that this goes away, and possibly someone gets hurt, if my G26 goes off in the Walmart bathroom as I pull my pants up.

Actually, it does imply exactly that.


Are there any reputable trainers who recommend C3 carry?



There is no logical reason to carry a gun C3, unless you're incapable of safe handling of the firearm. And if thats the case, why then, are you carrying the gun?

[Metal Angel]

Someone otta just go ask Mas in the GATE section and quote his reply... Which will inevitably be C1 with a couple exceptions for C3 (like carrying without a holster TEMPORARILY)

[NeverMore1701]

Originally Posted by Metal Angel

Someone otta just go ask Mas in the GATE section and quote his reply... Which will inevitably be C1 with a couple exceptions for C3 (like carrying without a holster TEMPORARILY)

Or if you're terrified of shooting your junk off in a Walmart bathroom....

[Nakanokalronin]

Yeeees...yeeeees, exactly how I predicted this would end up.

[Bob Hafler]

Originally Posted by Nakanokalronin

Yeeees...yeeeees, exactly how I predicted this would end up.

Who'd a thought.

[GenoTac Ind.]

keeps getting up we beat it again and then someone revives it and rides it around for awhile...SEARCH BAR people SEARCH BAR.



and it lives again!

[GenoTac Ind.]

Originally Posted by fiji_dieselnuts

The NRA Gun Safety Rules and gun manuals say leave a gun unloaded until ready to use. I am just wondering what people think about carrying with the magazine +1 in the chamber? Also what do people think about home defense... Do you leave it chambered (some of us live in small apartments and time counts) or work the slide and load it while shocked out of bed?

I suggest you do and practice just what the NRA safety rules say...then tell us how you tactical loaded a round in the chamber from dead sleep while a black masked ninja is jumping you from the ceiling.

[Oldguy1]

Originally Posted by Philo Beddoe

But then again, I'm sure someone will come along soon and tell me I'm peeing wrong, too.

Nah, you pee any way you choose, it's your right. But since you have to remove your firearm to pee, perhaps you should just sit down like a girl. Might be easier on ya.

[greentriple]

I carry condition BF1... Barney Fife 1, that is a single round in my shirt pocket and an empty magazine. Under stress I can pull the round out, load the magazine and rack for action in .005 seconds. I'm bad assssssss
hehehe

[Rick305]

Originally Posted by Philo Beddoe

First off, I'm not against C1 carry. I carry my P239 and EMP C1, but I will not carry my Glock C1.

It is my opinion that this subject does more to cause confusion for the newbie and to discredit the "gun community."

Chuck Yeager is an awesome pilot, with tens of thousands of hours. So does that make him an expert on emergency engine out procedures and/or crash landings? Nope. Chances are that the lowly CFII with just 3,000 hours is more current with engine out procedures. Well, Yeager may have some experience with those emergencies, but the fact that he is a great pilot means he is also better than most at avoiding those scenarios to begin with.

Not to be disrespectful of some of the more well-known gun experts, but just what is it about that experience that makes them an expert on C1 vs C3? Unless they have multiple actual experiences defending themselves using both methods of carry, their opinion is theory. I know I know, they have stats and the experiences of others which they have been involved with, or studied...but it's not the same.

I think the gun community loses credibility when they make goofy statements like the one at the top. A gun newbie may not have years of experience, but he didn't check his brain at the door when he bought his first gun, and common sense screams at him that much of the C1 vs C3 hullabaloo is theory.

The newbie can do simple math in his head. Simple math tells him that the chance of him EVER having to draw his gun in self defense is remote. Furthering those long odds is the chance that he'll have to draw and actually fire. And if those odds weren't already approaching the same chance of winning Powerball, the chances of those things happening, then C1 saving the day where C3 would not have sufficed, are astronomically remote.

So then Mr. Newbie measures those stats against the 5-12 times each day he administratively handles his gun, holstering, unholstering, taking a leak - and he begins to see that the odds of a ND are far greater than the odds of having C1 save the day.

Now, here is where other goofy comments come in, e.g., keep your booger finger off the bang switch, etc, etc, ad infinitum. That theory is the reserved domain of perfect men who never make a mistake. It is the domain of perfect men who never lock the keys in their pickup, who never trip on a crack in a sidewalk, who have never had a fender bender, or made any other mistake or lapse of judgment of any kind.

The reality is that high time fighter pilots get complacent and fly their jets into the ground. Heck, just several weeks ago a famous airshow pilot I knew (Howard Pardue) killed himself in his famous Bearcat - in spite of countless hours in that aircraft, the "rumor" among expert pilots who watched the crash is that his harness failed at the top of a 1/2 Cuban Eight. Hmmmm, that is an item on the pre-takeoff checklist of every N-numbered aircraft in the US. We're human, we make mistakes. That's what we do. God built us that way.

Now, if you want to carry C1, knock yourself out, I don't care. I do too, with certain guns. But the gun community shouldn't be so quick to make sweeping generalizations that defy common sense, such as the various example of the uselessness of C3. Particularly when harping on good situation awareness has a far better chance of results.

What you say (with all due respect) makes no sense AT ALL. I'm making this post quick , because you used a math-type judgment.

1. What are the chances of using DF ? LOW - you're right.

2. Okay , your statement [/i]"The newbie can do simple math in his head. Simple math tells him that the chance of him EVER having to draw his gun in self defense is remote. Furthering those long odds is the chance that he'll have to draw and actually fire"[/i] shows that you should not carry a firearm.

Math ? How about common CCW ? IF YOU DRAW YOUR WEAPON YOU SHOOT - YOUR IN A LIFE OR DEATH SITUATION ONCE YOU DRAW A GUN.

With that being said , if you feel the chance of an attack is low , then why do you carry ? Where I live (USA) , if I draw my weapon it's to save my life ...

I have [personally been in situations where I felt I could die. Trust me , if your ever in an LD situation -- the last thing you will be thinking about is "getting ready".

BG walks up on you / charges you with knife --

"Sir please hold on , I need to prep my gun"

Yeah right , you'll be dead ... If you can't carry a glock c1 then don't carry a gun at all , and go take some classes.

[Oldguy1]

Originally Posted by Philo Beddoe

Ok, maybe not. I do take my gun out of the holster every night, primarily so it can breath and release any moisture and dust that might be stuck between my G26 and Crossbreed.

I assumed everybody handled their gun several times per day...

Wait, think I've figured it out. You're either extremely anal(aka...OCD), or you don't know much about stuff...especially Glocks. (Or perhaps you enjoy saying doofus things on gun forums.)

If you have to handle your weapon 5-12 times a day, you are dangerous to yourself and others. So yes, please DO NOT carry a weapon with a round in the chamber.

Trust me, your loved ones, and those around you will certainly appreciate it. And the benefit from fondling something besides your Glock everyday will help with that OCD.