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Old 07-07-2012, 12:02   #41
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Old 07-07-2012, 20:18   #42
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Old 07-07-2012, 20:24   #43
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:07   #44
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Love the .357 sig!
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:14   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gappy View Post
What influences the choice of the day on caliber, bigpoppie50?

This thread got me so jacked up I bought the ammo before the gun! Plus, there was a quote on the Concealed Carry site talking about the Texas Rangers choosing 357SIG. Said in their testing it was closest thing to a death ray they had found. Men in Black came to mind. What was Will Smith's gun called? Tiny Cricket or something...
"lightning bolt effect" FTW!
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Old 07-11-2012, 14:41   #46
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Love it. I have the G33 and G31 and they are the real deal.
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Old 07-11-2012, 21:26   #47
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Quote:
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Love it. I have the G33 and G31 and they are the real deal.
Jealous of you good sir, I'm still awaiting my 33... supposedly on its way from Austria. we'll see
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:17   #48
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I have a G33 and a G31. Love them both.
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Old 07-23-2012, 15:14   #49
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I think that any old hand on the Border Patrol can remember the Federal 9BPLE 9mm +P+ load.

They (reportedly) had somewhat better stopping power results when they experimented with .38 Supers for
a while. No idea which brand or load, just that there were more than a few shootings with the caliber.


I've shot quite a bit of 9mm+P, 9mm +P+ (esp. the old Remington +P+) and .38 Super.

The nines acted like hot Nines, nothing really special there.

While the .38 Super seemed to have a .357 magnum whallop to it on my end
in both recoil and report. I could tell that it was not a 9mm I was shooting.
Pretty snorty, but not as flippy as a forty.


The .357 SIG acts kind of like a low recoiling 9mm, but seems to out-perform the 9mm+P, 9mm+P+, .38
Super, and in the eyes of many like myself..the .40 S&W.

instantaneous recoil that's concentrated AROUND the muzzle with quite a loud report, but virtually no
recoil or muzzle rise with most loads.

However, there is still the muzzle flash factor.

That said,, The 147 gr. loads are real *****cats in .357 SIG.

They tend to be a bit slower, yet still have some bark and flash.

However..Most people will choose 115-125 grains of goodness for their carry load.

Again, I'm no expert, but most of you other common calibers as used by police and ccw
holders..lack the 'pressure curve' that many experts talk about when discussing stopping
power of this rapidly growing cartridge that many writers thought was dead as the .357
Maximum, a few years ago!

One could surmise that the split- second recoil and loud report/flash is somehow being transfered to the
target(s) i.e. dangerous felons.


That has resulted in such a dynamic stopping power record- that the cartridge has been piling
up since its inception.

No firearm or cartridge/load is perfect.. but for some the .357 SIG is the Zenith in both recoil control of
an adequate caliber..and dynamic stopping power.

The fact that the SIG is as bee-line accurate and flat-shooting as it is loud.


Is also a major factor for choosing this caliber that seems to be sweeping much farther than its long stalwart home of Texas, these days!
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:12   #50
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In all honesty its really only a 9MM +P+ with a wider case.
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Old 07-24-2012, 19:53   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pck50 View Post
In all honesty its really only a 9MM +P+ with a wider case.
Really? Where exactly are you finding a 124/125gr 9mm +p+ that does an honest 1350fps?

Winchester's Ranger 127gr +P+ averages 1200fps in a four inch barrel.

Remington's 115gr +P+ load averages just over 1300fps.

Federals 9BPLE is another 115 +P+ at around 1300fps.


The HOTTEST 9mm loadings still fall well short of the performance of STANDARD 357 SIG loads.

9mm can not match the performance of 357 SIG without going well beyond safe operating pressures.

357 SIG can already be loaded to push a 125gr bullet at or near 1400fps and some change. That's an easy 200fps gained over a similar 9mm +p+ load, and still be within SAMMI specifications. Hell, we can already load it up to 1500fps with a 125gr bullet, just wait till the industry standardizes a 357 SIG +P.

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Old 07-24-2012, 20:55   #52
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I have a Sig P229, Glock 32, and Glock 33 so you could say I like the .357 sig. I usually carry one of the Glocks, wish Kahr made a PM357.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:05   #53
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In fact even more to be honest. here it is:

www.buffalobore.com





Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHaze View Post
Really? Where exactly are you finding a 124/125gr 9mm +p+ that does an honest 1350fps?

Winchester's Ranger 127gr +P+ averages 1200fps in a four inch barrel.

Remington's 115gr +P+ load averages just over 1300fps.

Federals 9BPLE is another 115 +P+ at around 1300fps.


The HOTTEST 9mm loadings still fall well short of the performance of STANDARD 357 SIG loads.

9mm can not match the performance of 357 SIG without going well beyond safe operating pressures.

357 SIG can already be loaded to push a 125gr bullet at or near 1400fps and some change. That's an easy 200fps gained over a similar 9mm +p+ load, and still be within SAMMI specifications. Hell, we can already load it up to 1500fps with a 125gr bullet, just wait till the industry standardizes a 357 SIG +P.

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Old 07-25-2012, 07:07   #54
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Additionally a .357 Sig is ok I guess for the folks that cant handle full house 10MM like the feds back in the mid 80's.

Have a very nice day, think you I loose and you won? God Bless you hopefully one day you will awake.
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Last edited by pck50; 07-25-2012 at 07:08..
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:18   #55
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(?) Roll my own and I LOVE the round. It has the perfect recoil for my hands: stout but not snappy and easy to stay on target. Now I have to dial-in my 10mm reloads!
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:22   #56
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It's definitely not "definately", and it definitely isn't "definitaly".

Last edited by The Gemini; 07-25-2012 at 07:23..
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:01   #57
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To get +P+ 9mm ammo you have to do some shopping, while the .357 SIG is more readily acquired in say Gold Dots, and there is no fear of accelerated wear on your gun like +P+
and most 9mms.

I've also shot 10mm for years, but never had the recoil control with it and hot ammo
like I get with Glock or M&P 357s.
TOP GUNS *357 Sig* Club

I don't Hunt anymore .. so I really don't need 10mm power.

Nor, do I like the hard kicking .40s with my preferred hot loads.
TOP GUNS *357 Sig* Club
So 9mm or .357 SIG is perfectly fine for my needs at this time.

We have big hopes for the forthcoming CZ P-09 DUTY in 2013, and hope
that CZ CUSTOM will want to be offering .357 SIG barrels for that platform
like they currently do for the CZ P-06.
TOP GUNS *357 Sig* Club

As the CZ Compacts don't fit me
very well in comparison the my RAMIs and CZ75s.

The P-07 Duty
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actually fits me better, so the P-09 Duty will be interesting.

Any new gun to the market or one that can be easily converted to .357 SIG
makes me smile
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Old 07-25-2012, 13:01   #58
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Have a brand new Gen 4 G23 with a .357 Sig barrel The .40 barrel sits in a drawer as I much prefer the Sig due to its recoil.
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Old 07-25-2012, 20:53   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pck50 View Post
In fact even more to be honest. here it is:

www.buffalobore.com
Ok, let's break this down shall we. Since you want to go there.

BB stocks a number of 9mm +P+ loads.
9mm +P+ PENETRATOR 124gr. FMJ-FN @ 1,300 fps -$1.26 per round
9mm Luger (+P+) 124 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point @ 1,300 fps - $1.26 per round
9mm Luger (+P+) 115 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point @ 1,400 fps $1.26 per round
BUFFALO-BARNES 9MM +P+ LEAD FREE - 115 gr. TAC-XP @ 1,400 fps - $1.70 per round
9mm Luger (+P+) 147 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point @1,175 fps - $1.26 per round

So we've got two 124gr loads at a claimed 1300fps. Two 115gr at a claimed 1400fps. And a 147gr at a claimed 1175fps.

Wonderful.

Now BuffaloBore doesn't carry much in 357 SIG, so I'll use DoubleTap as my example. Lets start with those 124/125gr loads shall we.

357 Sig 125gr. Bonded Defense JHP @ 1450 fps - $1.12 per round
357 Sig 125gr. JHP @ 1450 fps - $1.12 per round
357 Sig 147gr. JHP @ 1250 fps - $1.12 per round
357 Sig 115gr. Nosler JHP @ 1550 fps - $1/09 per round
357Sig 115gr. Barnes TAC-XP @ 1450 fps - $1.44 per round
357Sig 80gr. Barnes TAC-XP @ 1725 fps - $1.44 per round
357 Sig 180gr. WFNGC Hardcast @ 1025 fps - $1.12 per round

So, two 125gr loads @ 1450fps, one 115gr @ 1550fps, one 115gr @ 1450 fps. One 147gr @ 1250 fps. Even a 180gr load @ 1025 fps, and a ultralight 80gr @ 1725 fps.

No matter how you want to argue it, 357 SIG starts off already ahead of the hottest 9mm +P+ and then does nothing but gain velocity.

357 Sig 125gr Bonded JHP @ 1450 fps - $0.57 per round (Underwood Ammo)

Not to mention reloading your own using published data. Which from what I have on hand will put a 90 grain bullet out at 1715fps from a four inch barrel. A 125gr bullet at 1435 fps, and 147 gr at 1275fps.

Can you find my any published load data for 9mm +P+? No, you can't. 9mm +P is published, and that will get you just shy of 1250fps with a 124gr load. Just shy of 1300 fps with 115gr, and just shy of 1200fps with 147gr.

If you want to go with unpublished data, from JoeSchmuckatelly on the internet. That you can work up to, then you can push that same 124/125gr bullet over 1500fps with the 357 SIG, or 147gr at over 1300fps. Even push those light 90gr bullets above and beyond 1800fps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pck50 View Post
Additionally a .357 Sig is ok I guess for the folks that cant handle full house 10MM like the feds back in the mid 80's.

Have a very nice day, think you I loose and you won? God Bless you hopefully one day you will awake.
What the hell does this have to do with anything?

Maybe 9mm +P+ is for mall ninja's who want to attempt to duplicate ballistics of the 357 SIG in their 9mm sissy pistols? Sorry bub, you can't even get close.

I will give you this though, you tried.
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Anybody else love a good argument on the internet to brighten their day?
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Last edited by RedHaze; 07-25-2012 at 20:55..
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Old 07-25-2012, 22:24   #60
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There isn't any real accelerated wear and even if there when you use firearms such as H&K, Glock, and Even FN they completely recommend it and fully warrantee there firearms for life if you mean Beretta sigs and others well that is another story you merely and simply get what you pay for pay for quality get quality pay substandard get substandard its all very simple and elementary Sir!
Why else do all sigs state never use +P, +P+ and so on They know that the aluminum frames will give and most likely one day the slide will one day surely fly in your face as they did with all the Beretta which in the Mid 80's when the US Military adapted the M9. I did have the Beretta and even had the sigs that was why i dumped them.
Now I only believe in quality such as H&K, Glock, FN Herstal, CZ, Sphinx & Korth. and also in .22 LR Pistols Ruger MK111 in stainless.
As for revolvers only Korth, S&W, Colt, Ruger and Dan Wesson.
anything else your taking a chance of killing yourself not protecting yourself.




Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncz View Post
To get +P+ 9mm ammo you have to do some shopping, while the .357 SIG is more readily acquired in say Gold Dots, and there is no fear of accelerated wear on your gun like +P+
and most 9mms.

I've also shot 10mm for years, but never had the recoil control with it and hot ammo
like I get with Glock or M&P 357s.
TOP GUNS *357 Sig* Club

I don't Hunt anymore .. so I really don't need 10mm power.

Nor, do I like the hard kicking .40s with my preferred hot loads.
TOP GUNS *357 Sig* Club
So 9mm or .357 SIG is perfectly fine for my needs at this time.

We have big hopes for the forthcoming CZ P-09 DUTY in 2013, and hope
that CZ CUSTOM will want to be offering .357 SIG barrels for that platform
like they currently do for the CZ P-06.
TOP GUNS *357 Sig* Club

As the CZ Compacts don't fit me
very well in comparison the my RAMIs and CZ75s.

The P-07 Duty
TOP GUNS *357 Sig* Club
TOP GUNS *357 Sig* Club
actually fits me better, so the P-09 Duty will be interesting.

Any new gun to the market or one that can be easily converted to .357 SIG
makes me smile
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