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Old 06-11-2012, 13:12   #1
Liebestraum
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Feature loss of M&P Sport?

This is a speculation thread, haven't figured out what my next trade will be for, but I have been curious about AR's and looking into options.

For about 650ish I could get that complete polymer lower that no one likes and a nicely equipped complete upper from PSA, but I know people recommend buying a complete rifle when getting into them.

The M&P Sport seems like it would fit the bill, but I noticed it has no forward assist or dust cover. Would I miss those things? What else am I missing from a more spendier/higher end gun? Would I be happy for a good while until I got more spending money?

I know it is seen as a good gun, but no one ever says what its missing to make it cheap.

Last edited by Liebestraum; 06-11-2012 at 13:13.. Reason: Specification of lower and spelling
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Old 06-11-2012, 13:21   #2
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I'm pretty far from an AR expert, but for that price, it's hard to beat the M&P Sport.

Most shooters have rarely, if ever, used the FA and unless you're going to play in the sand or mud, the dust cover probably isn't needed.

It's a good shooter, handles a wide variety of ammo well and you get a great warranty from S&W.

Last edited by RMD; 06-11-2012 at 13:22..
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Old 06-11-2012, 14:49   #3
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The answer out of those two options is the Sport, but honestly if you say you are just buying something to tie you over until you get more money, you'd be better off to wait and keep saving and get a real rifle.

You can save 300 more dollars.
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Old 06-11-2012, 16:17   #4
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Originally Posted by bullittmcqueen View Post
The answer out of those two options is the Sport, but honestly if you say you are just buying something to tie you over until you get more money, you'd be better off to wait and keep saving and get a real rifle.

You can save 300 more dollars.
I wasn't aware that the Sport is not a "real" rifle. Please explain what it is to me. I'm pretty sure it isn't a paintball or airsoft gun.
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Old 06-11-2012, 16:26   #5
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Liebestraum, the M&P 15 Sport has eliminated or changed several things to simplify manufacturing and lower costs. The major changes are as follows:

1. No forward assist
2. No dust cover
3. Trigger guard is an integral part of the forged lower
4. Barrel is melonite treated instead of chrome lining. I believe this is where a big part of the savings comes in, as chrome lining plates the inside of the barrel and then the outside is parkerized. With melonite treatment, the inside and outside of the barrel are both treated at once, instead of two separate processes.

These steps have lowered the production cost and enable S&W to sell the Sport at a lower price compared to the rest of their line. You are the only one that can answer if you can live without the forward assist and dust cover. If you want a basic rifle for shooting at the range and home defense that doesn't cost a lot, the Sport is worth a look.
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Old 06-11-2012, 17:19   #6
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the trigger guard being built into the lower isn't exactly a cost cutting feature, as S&W is using it on all their ar's now.

The biggest thing you're loosing is the dust cover, but for HD or a range toy (even for 3 gun) it's not needed. The only other thing that's "cheap" about them is the handguard, as it's just plastic with no heat shield.


There is one glaring reason to not buy an M&P sport that I've never heard anyone else mention. It's like buying a V-6 mustang, yes it may be fun, and it may be cool and attract the ladies, but at some point you're going to pull up to a stop light and there's going to be a 5.0 'stang sitting there. And you're just going to look at it and think "I COULD HAVE HAD THAT!". That is exactly how you're going to feel when they guy shooting next to you has a standard AR.
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Old 06-11-2012, 17:39   #7
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the trigger guard being built into the lower isn't exactly a cost cutting feature, as S&W is using it on all their ar's now.
It is a cost cutting measure...less machining. They are not using it on the VTAC, the OR, the M&P15, the 15PX, the TS, the PS, the PSX.... They are only using the same lower on the Sport and the 15T so far. The MOE versions have an integrated trigger guard as well, but it is different from that in the Sport.

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Originally Posted by raxar View Post
The biggest thing you're loosing is the dust cover, but for HD or a range toy (even for 3 gun) it's not needed. The only other thing that's "cheap" about them is the handguard, as it's just plastic with no heat shield.
I forgot about the handguard. Yes, very cheap move to not have heat guards. Most folks change them out anyway, but at least a single heat shield should have been included.


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Originally Posted by raxar View Post
There is one glaring reason to not buy an M&P sport that I've never heard anyone else mention. It's like buying a V-6 mustang, yes it may be fun, and it may be cool and attract the ladies, but at some point you're going to pull up to a stop light and there's going to be a 5.0 'stang sitting there. And you're just going to look at it and think "I COULD HAVE HAD THAT!". That is exactly how you're going to feel when they guy shooting next to you has a standard AR.
I guess you would feel that way if you bought one to "look cool and attract the ladies", but if you bought one to shoot and hunt with, I doubt you will feel that way. I know I haven't, and the group I shoot with own everything from Daniel Defense to DPMS. My friends with the DD and Colt's like my Sport due to the weight and how I have kept it very simple. I replaced the Magpul BUS with a Matech BUIS and added a red dot.
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Old 06-11-2012, 17:41   #8
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There is one glaring reason to not buy an M&P sport that I've never heard anyone else mention. It's like buying a V-6 mustang, yes it may be fun, and it may be cool and attract the ladies, but at some point you're going to pull up to a stop light and there's going to be a 5.0 'stang sitting there. And you're just going to look at it and think "I COULD HAVE HAD THAT!". That is exactly how you're going to feel when they guy shooting next to you has a standard AR.
That has got to be the most asinine statement about the 15-Sport I've heard yet.

I choose my firearms based upon intended role and function, not to impress anyone.

You know what. You're right. If you're the type that feels the need to impress strangers at the range by bragging about how expensive your gear is, then a 15-Sport isn't for you.
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Old 06-11-2012, 20:06   #9
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You can't go wrong with the Sport. I doubt you'll miss the dust cover as it isn't a feature on a lot of other rifles like the M1A, and as far as the forward assist I've only had to use one once. The Sport incorporates a lot of great, useful features for the money. The Melonite coating is very robust, the 1 in 8 twist rate is a great compromise between the 1 in 7 and 1 in 9 twist rates, the oversized trigger guard being machined into the receiver is very stout, and it's a light rifle to boot. You can't go wrong with the Sport.
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Old 06-11-2012, 20:09   #10
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One happy Sport owner signing in.

Everybody that I've heard poking fun at them hasn't held/shot one. Additionally, while I am well aware that I can piece a standard AR together for about the same dollar amount, I just didn't want to. Why in the heck would I want my first ever black rifle to be some home made concoction that doesn't have any kind of warranty behind it? In my case, mine is a home defense gun, and I'll be damned if I'm going to trust my life to some Frankenstein gun built with parts from 17 different companies.

Some of these guys won't CCW a gun that has so much as a 3.5lb Ghost Trigger on it for fear of what the prosecution might think if they have to use the gun in a firefight, but they're willing to strap up a rifle that's made with who knows what and be proud that they "built" it themselves.

The only people who seem to be apprehensive about buying one are the guys who have been reading about them on the internet, and start to drink the Keyboard Commando Kool-Aid about how you need a $1200+ rifle to be considered a True Internet Warrior. Every single person I've shown mine too that hasn't read up on them yet love it, and love it even more once I tell them what I paid for it.

So as I said, one very happy Sport owner signing in, to tell you about a rifle that I've owned for about 9 months now with not so much as any type of a hiccup. And if my opinion isn't enough, go into any LGS and good luck finding one!!
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:38   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liebestraum View Post
This is a speculation thread, haven't figured out what my next trade will be for, but I have been curious about AR's and looking into options.

For about 650ish I could get that complete polymer lower that no one likes and a nicely equipped complete upper from PSA, but I know people recommend buying a complete rifle when getting into them.

The M&P Sport seems like it would fit the bill, but I noticed it has no forward assist or dust cover. Would I miss those things? What else am I missing from a more spendier/higher end gun? Would I be happy for a good while until I got more spending money?

I know it is seen as a good gun, but no one ever says what its missing to make it cheap.
Having a missing DC and FA doesn't make the gun cheap. The FA is just a panic button for those who do not know how to clear a jam. In 30 years of handling AR's I can't remember how many times I actually needed to use it. As far as the dust cover... Ahhh Alot of assult rifles don't have them and still function well. The cover flys open after the first round is fired anyway.

These missing features is how S&W was able to keep the price down to $650. The Sport model is just as durable and accurate as my Colt LE6920.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:39   #12
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The Sport is a well made rifle and as good as anything out there. There all Stoner designs and the SW Sport is made very well. The FA and Dust cover does not effect its perfect performance or excellent build &function. Its the heart of the Stoner design that makes or breaks its reliability and the Sports heart is first rate. The FA or dust cover does not make it work better for those who do not understand Stoners design or operation.
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:41   #13
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Originally Posted by TangoFoxtrot View Post
Having a missing DC and FA doesn't make the gun cheap. The FA is just a panic button for those who do not know how to clear a jam. In 30 years of handling AR's I can't remember how many times I actually needed to use it. As far as the dust cover... Ahhh Alot of assult rifles don't have them and still function well. The cover flys open after the first round is fired anyway.

These missing features is how S&W was able to keep the price down to $650. The Sport model is just as durable and accurate as my Colt LE6920.
My thoughts exactly. I really wish it had the dust cover, but that is not a deal breaker. The bolt carrier is not full auto, but it does have a shrouded firing pin channel. The 1/8, melonite barrel is excellent for general use, too.

The stock handguards are definitely cheap, and the standard M4 type stock sucks. Replacing the stock and handguards with improved ones (such as MOE furniture) can make an already respectable weapon into something excellent for most people.
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:49   #14
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I was doing some looking and it seems I can get the rifle itself for less than 700 with a set of cheap MAGPUL hand guards for the front for less than 30. So for around 700 I think it would make an excellent rifle for the uses I would put it through, at least until I learn more about the platform or get into sporting things. Thanks for the excellent advice.
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:51   #15
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Originally Posted by Liebestraum View Post
I was doing some looking and it seems I can get the rifle itself for less than 700 with a set of cheap MAGPUL hand guards for the front for less than 30. So for around 700 I think it would make an excellent rifle for the uses I would put it through, at least until I learn more about the platform or get into sporting things. Thanks for the excellent advice.
While you are at it, invest in a bottle of SLIP 2000 Extreme Weapons Lube. The name sounds a bit hokey, but it's a fantastic product. A few drops is enough to keep the BCG well lubed, and having that lubed properly is one of the biggest keys to keeping an AR running reliably.
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:55   #16
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Okay, so the Sport is a V6 Mustang while the "real" whatever is a V8 Mustang...does this mean that the "real" whatever shoots a caliber larger than 5.56mm?
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:57   #17
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Quote:
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As far as the dust cover... Ahhh Alot of assult rifles don't have them and still function well. The cover flys open after the first round is fired anyway.
Hell, the dust cover pops open if you were to sneeze.
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:58   #18
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Quote:
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guy shooting next to you has a standard AR.
What's a standard AR?
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Old 06-12-2012, 18:51   #19
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It is a cost cutting measure...less machining. They are not using it on the VTAC, the OR, the M&P15, the 15PX, the TS, the PS, the PSX.... They are only using the same lower on the Sport and the 15T so far. The MOE versions have an integrated trigger guard as well, but it is different from that in the Sport.

I forgot about the handguard. Yes, very cheap move to not have heat guards. Most folks change them out anyway, but at least a single heat shield should have been included.
My point being that the trigger guard isn't something you're giving up on the sport because smith uses it on other models. While the handguard is a bit chinsy I think the stock looks very well made, better than a lot of the factory m4 stocks

Quote:
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Okay, so the Sport is a V6 Mustang while the "real" whatever is a V8 Mustang...does this mean that the "real" whatever shoots a caliber larger than 5.56mm?

What's a standard AR?
OK I don't get why people don't understand that this was an analogy. For all intents and purposes (intensive purposes) the sport will do anything a regular m&p will, but it just isn't the same thing

A standard AR would be one with a regular upper. I do wonder though how much they would have to raise the price if they just stuck a regular upper on the sport, I think most people would be willing to pay an extra $50 or so for one if they did.



I do welcome anyone who wishes to accuse me of gun-snobbery and nash their teeth at my elitest know-nothing opinions on the sport, but first they should probably take a look at who wrote this

http://www.gunsnet.net/showthread.ph...-M-amp-P-Sport
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Old 06-12-2012, 21:08   #20
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I've got 2,600 documented rounds in my sport...over 2,000 of which was bear or tul ammo...the lower cost of it allowed me to equip it with an EOtech/ EOtech magnifier, streamlight TLR-1, YHM quad rail, BFG VCAS sling, DD QD sling mounts, Magpul Grip, MFT Stock...and 3,000 rounds of ammo...obviously I didn't get all this gear immediately. But the money I was planning to spend on a DDM4V5 allowed me to get the rifle, rail, and RDS for roughly the same cost.

I'd buy another one in a heartbeat!

And I've owned tons of other various M4gery's and this one has ran as good or better, and been neglected harder than any of my other carbines. Mainly cause it cost $600 OTD and I don't care if I wear it out! I'll either use S&W's lifetime warranty, or just replace parts as necessary
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