[Trey83]

Originally Posted by DWS22

.......sorry I didn't make it,,,,did you make the DD heli drop witness list??

Yep....I was the helicopter pilot

[smokin762]

Originally Posted by bigmoney890

I realize that. Just because no one has made a reliable polymer lower yet, doesn't mean that it's not possible.

New Frontier Armory could be the answer, but then again it could be another dud. I'm not wanting one because of weight or money reasons, because you are saving very little weight and even less money. I just think it'd be cool just to build an AR with a $110 NFA lower and $375 Del-ton upper. A $485 complete AR that you aren't afraid to scratch, drop, and/or beat the hell out of.

If someone were on a SUPER TIGHT budget or if someone were just unsure about AR's in general but still wanted to break into the AR world, you couldsave a few hundred dollars by building the gun I mentioned and shooting a bunch of steel cased ammo that most people are afraid to shoot through their guns. Then you could potentially put alot of rounds down range and be completely comfortable with the AR before taking the big leap into the top tier guns. Because let's face it, not everyone loves AR's.

I generally don't like making big purchases until im 100% sure that i'm going to like what I buy. I'm sure I will love my AR, but I could just hate the whole platform then regret spending upwards of $900 on a weapon I don't like instead of half that price on a gun just to make sure I know what I'm getting my self into.

But hey, like I said, I'm just a simple guy with simple thoughts.

I am a simple man also and I am not a gun snob. Most around here do not approve of my choice of rifles.

For me, a firearm is an investment that I want to be able to keep for years and use.

I want my grand kids to inherit rifles with worn out barrels.

[mvician]

IDK, watched the video and could help but notice that during the tosses that they mad sure not to have it land buttstock first. Ran it over square in the middle, stepped on the upper to get in the truck bed.

Wonder how it would hold up to mortaring a stuck round out of the chamber?

[bigmoney890]

Originally Posted by mvician

IDK, watched the video and could help but notice that during the tosses that they mad sure not to have it land buttstock first. Ran it over square in the middle, stepped on the upper to get in the truck bed.

Wonder how it would hold up to mortaring a stuck round out of the chamber?

I did noticed that they were "careful" when doing the torture tests. It makes you think about the durability. But at the same time, they did toss the rifle pretty far and it landed pretty hard. It's still up in the air for me, but only one way to find out, right?

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by DWS22

....one good drop,, like this???


LW-15 Polymer AR-15 receiver -- Torture Test #3 -- General Strength - YouTube

Yeah, I'm really gonna trust the manufacturer's own "torture test".

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by mvician

IDK, watched the video and could help but notice that during the tosses that they mad sure not to have it land buttstock first. Ran it over square in the middle, stepped on the upper to get in the truck bed.

Wonder how it would hold up to mortaring a stuck round out of the chamber?

Not well, I am betting. I was worried about my ACS stock when I had to do it, but the stock held up just fine. The buffer tube and lower never even flinched.

[Hour13]

^^^ This is where I think we're seeing "the great divide" Plank. The AR-15 is so freakishly popular, but there are definitely two distinct groups of buyers. The guys I see at the range who gingerly set the gun on a towel or mat when they're not shooting it?

I don't think it would ever occur to them to bang the butt down to clear a round. When I drop to prone position, I do it quickly, and other than my support hand the floor of the mag is the first thing to hit the ground, often quite hard. Don't see these guys doing that either. Difference between "tool" and "toy" I suppose.

The existence of Commercial-Spec rifles IMO is the cause of one of the biggest misnomers in the firearm world;

"Mil-spec"

I think alot of people feel that if an AR component is listed as mil-spec, that it's some kind of indication of quality, when it's just being used to define the measurements.

This is unfortunate(for buyers), but I don't suppose it'd really matter in a gun that spends it's life in a safe or case, and pokes holes in paper a few times a year...

[CarryTexas]

I wouldn't call that a torture test... More like a rough handing test.

They certainly took care to ensure it landed properly on the short throws. On the 25 yard toss it landed in a bush!

When they used it to climb into the truck he stood on the upper.

I am not sure what stress that would put on the lower, but if you wanted to demostrate the durability of the lower then why not step on the lower?


I would love to see a lightweight composite lower that is at least equal to aluminum. Until that happens I will stick to a traditional forged lower.

[Gary1911A1]

A bit off topic, but I wonder if Glock won't make a polymer lower. That might explain the rifle range they built.

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by Hour13

^^^ This is where I think we're seeing "the great divide" Plank. The AR-15 is so freakishly popular, but there are definitely two distinct groups of buyers. The guys I see at the range who gingerly set the gun on a towel or mat when they're not shooting it?

I don't think it would ever occur to them to bang the butt down to clear a round. When I drop to prone position, I do it quickly, and other than my support hand the floor of the mag is the first thing to hit the ground, often quite hard. Don't see these guys doing that either. Difference between "tool" and "toy" I suppose.

The existence of Commercial-Spec rifles IMO is the cause of one of the biggest misnomers in the firearm world;

"Mil-spec"

I think alot of people feel that if an AR component is listed as mil-spec, that it's some kind of indication of quality, when it's just being used to define the measurements.

This is unfortunate(for buyers), but I don't suppose it'd really matter in a gun that spends it's life in a safe or case, and pokes holes in paper a few times a year...

Mil-spec is a term that is heavily misused and abused. It definitely has it's uses, but most people have lost sight of the intent.

Originally Posted by Gary1911A1

A bit off topic, but I wonder if Glock won't make a polymer lower. That might explain the rifle range they built.

If Glock makes any kind of rifle/carbine, I doubt it will be an AR, polymer or not.

[Texas357]

If we can build the F-22 out of composites, youd think someone could design a mostly composite rifle.

[marson3erk]

Of coarse it didnt land buttstock first, the barrel is a lot heavier. i would have to weight my buttstock to get it to land first. when he steps on the upper receiver to get into the truck he actually stresses the weakest area of the lower where the buttstock threads through. if you watch the video one guy holds the barrel and one the buttstock.
I have an older plum crazy lower that i took a chance on. ive had it for about three years. for 150 with FFL tansfer fee i couldnt beat it. i was kinda skeptical as anyone SHOULD be(with anything). i put it on a dpms lightweight upper. fit was TIGHT.(+) trigger was actually my favorite part. <5lb pull,No creep, No overtravel, glass break. i have since done a slight trigger and spring job.installed blowback hammer.<4lb pull(BTW never had a FTF or light strike with a stainless or titanium pin, and i shoot a lot of tula steel 75 grains.)(+) i was/am concerned where the buffer meets the receiver. i pulled the stock backplate, and replaced with a tapco 1 point. before reinstallation i re-tapped the threads on the receiver(i felt the buffer wasnt seated deep enough), notched my buffer tube(where the buffer contacts the retaining pin), and threaded it two full turns deeper.(+/-) i also replaced the a2 grip with a hogue one(++). installed BAD lever(+) now im concerned about the area in front of the bolt stop. i also run a hydraulic buffer.
I am currently on my second upper. its a 14.5 with pinned brake. 1x7 twist jp a2 adjustable gas system. a2 receiver. barrel,receiver, bolt+carrier, titanium firing pin, buffer and FCG springs all cryoed. it eats a healthy diet of 75 grain steel cases with ZERO problems. i recently bought a cmmg 22 kit(+++) Zero lower related problems.( a few FTF and FTE from the kit during break in, also got a shell jammed between the charging handle and the top of the kit.) i have also fired 20 rounds of 6.8 through it on my brothers piston upper with zero issues.
I have seen videos of the plum crazy lowers run with 50bmg bolt gun and run full auto with a DIAS. the NFA lowers are the same design just a different polymer mix(supposed to be stronger)(+/-). supposedly the NFA torture gun is a full auto with 20k+ rounds through it.
i have built built 4 other guns for friends and family using plum crazy and NFA lowers. 2 .223s, 1 6.8(piston gun), and 1 7.62x39. the only one i had issues with is the 7.62 and it had light strikes. i have since alleviated the problem by reshaping the firing pin so it protruded further from the bolt face, and i used a wolf XP hammer spring.
From my limited experiance with these lowers i have been impressed. i have personally shot about 5k+ rounds of different calibers through these lowers with ZERO lower related malfuntions. I shoot as much as i can, at least twice a month in the great state of colorado, and have run these lowers in the rain and the snow(zombies dont quit in bad weather). i also dont baby my weapons(i am also not intentionally trying to destroy them either) sometimes i throw it(reaching for my sidearm in malf/empty drills) and sometimes it falls,gets knocked around and dinged up, my daughter steps on it(even though i tell her not to jump on my range bag), ive even had the unfortunate experience of being "buttstocked" square in the mouth by my wife during self defense training at home.
Long story short I took a chance and so far it has paid off. Are these lowers for everyone? NO. some guys like glock(++) some like an all steel 1911(+). so far have these lowers held up? a very surprising YES. will they handle mods? so far yes. for 120 it wouldnt kill to try one. build a cheap "truck" gun or a plinker, a competition gun or even for hunting. would i bet my life on it? at the moment i do(its my bedside gun, right next to the glock 34). call me crazy for doing so but ive worked with polymers and composites since my first job at 16 and can attest to the properties of some of the materials. IF and thats a big IF this lower ever fails me, i have and aluminum one in the safe that ive NEVER used.(collecting dust!)

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by Texas357

If we can build the F-22 out of composites, youd think someone could design a mostly composite rifle.

It's called the SCAR, ACR, etc...

[TedG]

I have a Colt, and it is almost all metal. I don't care what you have or feel the need to justify. If you want a plastic rifle, buy it. That's why it's called free enterprise.

Some people have the compulsion to ask about their purchase, or soon to purchase, plastic lower. When other people voice their opinions in the negative, all of a sudden it's my dad can beat your dad.

For the record.... I think plastic lowers are economical (see, I didn't say cheap), most of them are black, and they are wonderful, for you. For me, not so much.

[Bow Commander]

marson3erk thanks for you input. Welcome to the forum!

[marson3erk]

thanks, glad to be here. I just wanted to post actual experience with the product, not just opinion or bias. i was just as skeptical as everyone else, the only difference being i actually tried the product. im still a bit skeptical about the overall strength(in certain places, buffer, take down pin) but as i stated before i have COMPLETELY stripped my lower twice(for duracoat) and field stripped it from the upper hundreds of times. through the years of use and abuse it has held up, so far...

[mac66]

Sometimes "good enough" is good enough. It really doesn't matter if a polymer lower will withstand the rigors of combat, or ritual abuse by some retarded gorilla, if it works for what you intend to use it for then it is good enough.

And don't give me the "what is your life worth" BS. That's not even the right question. The real question is... "What are the chances that I will be in a life threatening situation and have to use my polymer lower to an extent where it fails?" The answer is slim and none.

Sometimes good enough is good enough.

[rooster626]

Originally Posted by mac66

Sometimes "good enough" is good enough. It really doesn't matter if a polymer lower will withstand the rigors of combat, or ritual abuse by some retarded gorilla, if it works for what you intend to use it for then it is good enough.

And don't give me the "what is your life worth" BS. That's not even the right question. The right question is... "What are the chances that I will be in a life threatening situation and have to use my polymer lower to an extent where it fails?" The answer is slim and none.

Sometimes good enough is good enough.

^ what he said, besides if it was home defense id much rather trust a shotgun than a rifle.

hopefully ill be getting my complete rifle from NFA soon its been about 4 weeks since i placed my order with them but ill report back as soon as i take it out to the range.

[jarubla]

Originally Posted by mac66

...or ritual abuse by some retarded gorilla...

:LOL:

Best line ever...

-Jay

[smokin762]

Originally Posted by mac66

Sometimes "good enough" is good enough. It really doesn't matter if a polymer lower will withstand the rigors of combat, or ritual abuse by some retarded gorilla, if it works for what you intend to use it for then it is good enough.

And don't give me the "what is your life worth" BS. That's not even the right question. The real question is... "What are the chances that I will be in a life threatening situation and have to use my polymer lower to an extent where it fails?" The answer is slim and none.

Sometimes good enough is good enough.

I am an optimist too, that why I think home owners insurance is a waste of money and can be better spent on a more useful things like a butterfly collection.

[I Shooter]

I plan to pick one up for my next build, a 6mm/223. It will not get a lot of use, mostly punching paper and some game use. In any given year it shouldn't get any more than 600 rounds through it. I have a 5.56 that is used around the house. It was built by my Son and when he gave it to me I wandered what I was going to do with it. I like my single shots and my bolts. It has turned out to be a very handy rifle. I now understand what all the fuss was about. It is easy to shoot, light on recoil, cheap to shoot and just an all around fun gun. I still think they are uggggggggly.

[rooster626]

finally got my Rifle from new frontier today, range report and pics come tomorrow

[DWS22]

Originally Posted by rooster626

finally got my Rifle from new frontier today, range report and pics come tomorrow

.....Rooster, what rifle did you get,, poly or the non-ferrous lower model?? Anyways congratulations!!

[rooster626]

i got this one http://newfrontierarmory.com/catalog...ducts_id=34563, i just picked it up before work i havent really played with it other than when i was inspecting it before pick up.

btw if im breaking any forum rules by posting a link to their online store im sorry let me know and ill take it down.

[DWS22]

R, Nice looking gun for the money,,,keep us posted on the "Range Report" when you can....