[PghJim]

I have been seeing more variety of 357 sig rounds available both for LEO and public. Winchester has the PDX1 and Remington droped their previous GS bullet, but now has bonded version for the public for example.

Is this any indication of the caliber's future?

[dkf]

Hopefully the .357sig becomes more popular. I seem to be hearing more positives on forums about it than there used to be. LEAs seems like it also although nothing close to .40sw popularity. You never know what the future holds.

Cabela's also came out with a .357sig Hornady Critical Defense load the other year. Its a watered down 115gr load but at least its something new. The PDX1 is the same as the Ranger Bonded sig bullet but hey its still "new".

[Tiro Fijo]

Personally, I believe it will always be a niche cartridge as one can easily see that probably not even 1% of shooters are reloaders. It is a wonderful cartridge IMO that does everything good and nothing bad, that is unless you consider the noise factor important.

There will always be a handful of non-reloaders who want a top tier ctg., e.g., 10mm & .357 SIG. However, most shooters will be dissuaded by the higher priced factory range ammo. Just my 2 cents.

[RMD]

Originally Posted by PghJim

I have been seeing more variety of 357 sig rounds available both for LEO and public. Winchester has the PDX1 and Remington droped their previous GS bullet, but now has bonded version for the public for example.

Is this any indication of the caliber's future?

I have a feeling it will only get more popular.

Not like 9/45, but growing nevertheless.

[Adamz04]

I just got a g32 the other day and fell in lOve. I don't see how this caliber doesn't grow in popularity. I enjoy it much more than 40. I not sure if it has any benefits over 40 but for me it's a home run. I would like to see 357sig on Walmart shelves. I agree withOP in that just in the last 6 months I've seen the online retailers have more variety. It's great cause while other calibers are getting bought up 357 is in stock quite often.

[dkf]

The price of ammo FMJ ammo at most brick and motor shops doesn't help the .357sig. Even though .357sig is cheaper to load AND reload than .40 the companies do not produce the quantities per run to help keep the cost down. Some walmarts stock .357sig but it isn't cheap.

Adamz04

Just a heads up. Do not buy any winchester white box in .357sig. They want over $30 per 50 in a lot of places and the QC is horrible. Last two boxes of it I bought (which was over 6 months apart) one box had a completely crushed bullet the other had undersized bullets. S&B, Speer, Federal and etc is much better. Better yet cheack out Underwood Ammo or Georiga Arms for ammo if you don't reload.

[Cadcom]

Originally Posted by Adamz04

I just got a g32 the other day and fell in lOve. I don't see how this caliber doesn't grow in popularity. I enjoy it much more than 40. I not sure if it has any benefits over 40 but for me it's a home run. I would like to see 357sig on Walmart shelves. I agree withOP in that just in the last 6 months I've seen the online retailers have more variety. It's great cause while other calibers are getting bought up 357 is in stock quite often.

Local Wal-Mart here in North Georgia carries it. Winchester target and the HP personal Def. loads.

[Adamz04]

Thanks dkf.... I always avoid Winchester at all costs. I've had too many bad experiences to ever go back. Winchester is junk IMo and overpriced. I really like lawman but you have to search for a good price. Federal is probably my favorite all around brand I just wish I could find better deals on American eagle

[CDW4ME]

I can buy Ranger T online for about the same as "white box" at Wal-Mart; yes, they carry .357 Sig at Wal-Mart here.

I've never handloaded .357 Sig, but I'm gonna give it a go; I'll have about as much in the fisished rounds using new brass and Gold Dots as if I just ordered Ranger T or Gold Dot factory ammo, but at least I can say I did it.

I handload 10mm (sucker for niche calibers, or is it just wanting to fill a preceived need ? perception is reality) and I do save a little $ over factory ammo even if I only use new components. I handload Hornady XTP bullets & new Starline brass, the end result being cheaper than buying the little 20 round boxes of factory XTP's.

Maybe other shooters are becoming more willing to spend a little more $ to have a niche caliber.

[RMD]

Originally Posted by dkf

The price of ammo FMJ ammo at most brick and motor shops doesn't help the .357sig...

This is the key. It doesn't pass the Walmart test (decent FMJ at a decent price), so it doesn't fly with the average Joe.

That's OK though. Would hate for the BGs to start carrying it

[cowboy1964]

.357 Sig prices are getting down into the .45 ACP price range. sgammo has Speer Lawman in .357 Sig and .45 ACP at the same price ($17.24). A few more bucks and it will be down to the .40S&W price range.

The .357 Sig is a neat cartridge but I'm not sure I'll ever carry it. The .40 is just a lot more practical and I'm a 9 guy 99% of the time anyway.

[fastbolt]

I suspect the major ammo companies who see some LE/Gov ammo contracts are fine tuning their selections to attract buyers. Or to meet the specifications of existing LE/Gov customers. Some of this filters down to the commercial market.

The caliber itself doesn't seem to be attracting a lot of new users in the LE/Gov market. The commercial/private owner market probably reflects availability, geographical influences and any cost influences.

Most folks who shoot the caliber form their own opinions. This is easily subjective as well as objective, so it has the potential to vary quite a bit.

I've heard at least 3 different gun companies tell armorers that .357SIG is harder on guns than the .40 S&W (which is already harder on guns than 9/.45), but the newer guns are being made to take that into consideration, and armorers can try and keep up with any increased wear & tear with periodic inspections, parts replacement, etc.

Hand-loaders like their caliber choices for their individual reasons. (I was an avid hand-loader as a young man, but that was many years ago.) If I was going to get back into hand-loading and pick a niche caliber, it would be 10mm. (Straight walled case versus the short neck resulting from the bottle neck design of the .357SIG.) I'd probably return to reloading for my .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum & .45 Colt, though, before picking a niche caliber.

S&W invested a significant amount of time in T&E before offering their first .357SIG chambered pistol, the M&P 357, and from what I was told they literally had pallets of cases of .357 ammo sitting around the factory while they were doing the early T&E of that model. After receiving some LE contracts, I've head that caliber model has been relegated to LE orders, and their emphasis has shifted to the 9/.40/.45 models (which are selling very well).

Not a lot of SIG, HK & Glock .357 models usually found on the shelves of gunstores, but that can also be a geographical consideration.

I've not seen much in the way of .357 ammo on commercial shelves among several gun & sporting good s stores where I've looked. About the same as 10mm, and more than .45GAP. I imagine the stores all order what's selling well in their locations. Who knows what that means?

If I had access to free .357SIG ammo I'd probably have picked up a gun for it.

[3rdgen40]

My LGS has a LOT of .357 sig on his shelf.Don't think it's selling to well though.Local walmart had one box which the clever walmart employee tried to sell me for my .357 mag,then looked at me like I was crazy when I said they are two different cartridges.

[glock20c10mm]

Originally Posted by PghJim

I have been seeing more variety of 357 sig rounds available both for LEO and public. Winchester has the PDX1 and Remington droped their previous GS bullet, but now has bonded version for the public for example.

Is this any indication of the caliber's future?

I believe it's a positive. Don't see how it couldn't be seen that way.

Law enforcement use is still only growing at this point. I have yet to hear of any LE that went with it and later dropped it. Unless something has recently changed, all of the following plus more are currently carrying 357SIG:

United States Secret Service
Bureau of Industry and Security
Delaware State Police
Mississippi State Police
Montana State Police
New Mexico State Police
North Carolina State Police
North Dakota State Police
South Dakota State Police
Rhode Island State Police
Tennessee State Police
Oklahoma State Police
Virginia State Police
Texas State Police
Orlando, FL Police Department

Plus other cities, and maybe counties.

It's a start. And like I said above, only increasing at this point.

[fastbolt]

You might bear in mind that the latest update I received was that there are now more than 18,000 state & local agencies, and again over 800,000 active cops.

The "starting point" is somewhat long past ...

It's not like its losing any LE customers, but it's not like it's necessarily growing, either.

The introduction of the .45GAP has probably also cut into potential sales.

[dkf]

The introduction of the .45GAP has probably also cut into potential sales.

Possibly. I always figured the few that use the .45gap would have probably went .45acp or .40 if they would not have went with the gap.

[fastbolt]

Originally Posted by dkf

Possibly. I always figured the few that use the .45gap would have probably went .45acp or .40 if they would not have went with the gap.

Hard to guess or predict, I suppose.

After all, it's not like there's other gun companies producing service/duty guns chambered in the GAP, right?

Personally, having listened to someone from Glock discuss their efforts to push the GAP onto any LE users they could interest in using it, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons the GAP was chosen, here or there, might be because of some incentives (maybe including some ammunition incentives/assistance?).

The reduction in grip dimension to that of the 9/.40 is certainly helpful for agencies having to equip a disparate workforce covering the wide range of hand sizes. Caliber being a deciding factor? Dunno. Agencies select & choose such things for all manner of reasons.

I have heard that some ammo procurement considerations, meaning cost & availability, has helped keep 9mm & .40 S&W "popular" service caliber choices.

Oddly enough, the last guy I knew who came from an agency who issued .357SIG, and who had bought a compact off-duty pistol similar to what he was issued ... bought a .40 S&W model.

Now and again I've heard folks at the range talk a lot about how they think the .357SIG might be a superior cartridge ... but I typically see them carrying & using personally-owned weapons chambered in other calibers. Go figure.

I remember listening to one lecturer discussing some shootings and calibers one day. The subject of .357SIG came up (although it didn't sound like any of the attending cops carried one), and all the instructor had to say was that one of his client agencies used it, and while they were generally satisfied with it, they'd had a few instances where it didn't "stop" an attacker, just like with their former duty caliber.

I'd use a .357SIG weapon without qualm if I were issued one (and provided the ammo ), and as an armorer I'd have no qualms about inspecting, supporting and maintaining them in a manner that helped provide for an optimal service life ... but I'm not going to run out and buy one for myself.

I certainly understand other folks feeling differently, though. Not a problem for me.

[dkf]

After all, it's not like there's other gun companies producing service/duty guns chambered in the GAP, right?

Currently this the only other company I know of that makes a pistol chambered in .45gap is in the link below.(its a beast of a gun) However there may be barrels available for 1911s, I just have never seen one.

http://bondarms.com/bond-arms-guns/bond-ranger

Personally, having listened to someone from Glock discuss their efforts to push the GAP onto any LE users they could interest in using it, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons the GAP was chosen, here or there, might be because of some incentives (maybe including some ammunition incentives/assistance?.

Thats what I have been under the assumption is the case as to why the agencies that have the gap went to it. Glock pushed it hard and gave them a deal. They really didn't have much choice because a lot of people probably didn't even know the cartridge existed.

[glock20c10mm]

Originally Posted by dkf

Possibly. I always figured the few that use the .45gap would have probably went .45acp or .40 if they would not have went with the gap.

That's been my gut feeling.

[PghJim]

Besides the increased offering, I have found more regular people asking about the round (357 Sig) at the range or at shops. A regular person is one who owns less than 3, 357 Sig, and less than 2, 10mm guns, unless limited by funds.

[dpadams6]

Originally Posted by fastbolt

Hard to guess or predict, I suppose.

After all, it's not like there's other gun companies producing service/duty guns chambered in the GAP, right?

Personally, having listened to someone from Glock discuss their efforts to push the GAP onto any LE users they could interest in using it, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons the GAP was chosen, here or there, might be because of some incentives (maybe including some ammunition incentives/assistance?).

The reduction in grip dimension to that of the 9/.40 is certainly helpful for agencies having to equip a disparate workforce covering the wide range of hand sizes. Caliber being a deciding factor? Dunno. Agencies select & choose such things for all manner of reasons.

I have heard that some ammo procurement considerations, meaning cost & availability, has helped keep 9mm & .40 S&W "popular" service caliber choices.

Oddly enough, the last guy I knew who came from an agency who issued .357SIG, and who had bought a compact off-duty pistol similar to what he was issued ... bought a .40 S&W model.

Now and again I've heard folks at the range talk a lot about how they think the .357SIG might be a superior cartridge ... but I typically see them carrying & using personally-owned weapons chambered in other calibers. Go figure.

I remember listening to one lecturer discussing some shootings and calibers one day. The subject of .357SIG came up (although it didn't sound like any of the attending cops carried one), and all the instructor had to say was that one of his client agencies used it, and while they were generally satisfied with it, they'd had a few instances where it didn't "stop" an attacker, just like with their former duty caliber.

I'd use a .357SIG weapon without qualm if I were issued one (and provided the ammo ), and as an armorer I'd have no qualms about inspecting, supporting and maintaining them in a manner that helped provide for an optimal service life ... but I'm not going to run out and buy one for myself.

I certainly understand other folks feeling differently, though. Not a problem for me.

My Dept has been carrying the 357sig for about 14 years with many shootings. It has worked as intended every time. Most Leo will carry off duty the same ammo issued at work. There are some exceptions.

[RMD]

Originally Posted by dpadams6

My Dept has been carrying the 357sig for about 14 years with many shootings. It has worked as intended every time...

One of the reasons I chose to get into this caliber.

[fastbolt]

Originally Posted by dpadams6

My Dept has been carrying the 357sig for about 14 years with many shootings. It has worked as intended every time.

I can say the same thing about the use of 9mm & .40 S&W, just using some different agencies.

Then again, I remember when the .357 Magnum service revolver was being phased out by the 9mm hi-cap guns, and the 125gr JHP was being heavily discussed. I remember some "experts" lauding it, and others discussing its short-comings and occasional "failures".

Then, there was the muzzle blast, recoil (both felt, and muzzle whip/torque) and controllability which was problematic for many users. A significant number of agencies went the +P route (and some the +P+ route), rather than deal with how hard the Magnum revolvers were on the users, as well as some concerns about the public relations issues (or perceptions) of using "Magnum" ammunition.

Originally Posted by dpadams6

Most Leo will carry off duty the same ammo issued at work. There are some exceptions.

Some exceptions? No kidding.

Considering the number of local, state & fed agencies, I'd think there's probably any number of things that happen among the active 800K+ LE working. I've learned over the years to "never say never".

I've long since given up trying to figure out why folks choose what they choose for personally-owned secondary & off-duty weapons.

You'd think the use of something similar to an issued weapon would be reasonable, especially for the 'non-firearms enthusiast' carriers (for familiarization and ammunition availability), but then I've seen the 'grass is always greener' effect occur and influence the choices of folks. "I don't like the Brand-X gun I'm issued, and I want to carry a Brand-Y gun on my own time." That sort of thing.

To some extent I can understand agencies who limit the approved choices for off-duty & secondary weapons, or who issue them.

Retirement weapon choices? It goes all directions, for various reasons, doesn't it?

[breacher1]

Originally Posted by dpadams6

My Dept has been carrying the 357sig for about 14 years with many shootings. It has worked as intended every time. Most Leo will carry off duty the same ammo issued at work. There are some exceptions.

that's why I purchased my own G32, an option my dept. allows us to do on our own dime.

we are otherwise issued G22's and 180gr Gold Dots. I've seen some less than impressive results with those and the Hydrashocks we were issued 10 yrs ago would never expand so the dept switched to the GD. the SP here in NM have been pretty happy with their 357 Sigs so I thought what the hell. I bought some Remington GS bonded and some Gold Dots for the 32 but I do most practicing with my 40 barrel since that's the only caliber I reload for. (Dillon doesn't make dies for the Square Deal press in 357 sig)

most guys carry Glock 27's off duty. I used to but I like my Taurus PT740 Slim better now for off duty. awesome trigger on that little bugger.

[spcwes]

Originally Posted by fastbolt

You might bear in mind that the latest update I received was that there are now more than 18,000 state & local agencies, and again over 800,000 active cops.

The "starting point" is somewhat long past ...

It's not like its losing any LE customers, but it's not like it's necessarily growing, either.

The introduction of the .45GAP has probably also cut into potential sales.

I know its in a much better place than the 45GAP but really to be honest coming from a long time police officer at an administrative rank in the agency I am currently working the price is enough to keep it from growing. Plain and simple, the round is WAY more expensive than it needs to be. Ammo costs since 2003-2004 have smashed large and small department budgets into dust.

I know every single agency that is using it and most of which I talked to during our recent transition to new weapons are not only extremely happy with OIS results but refer in some cases as it being the most effective caliber sidearm ever used by the department. Some of these are at state level in saying this.

But 9mm and 40SW are much better in terms of cost and that is a weighing factor today whether folks want it to be or not. If you can't afford to train with the ammo you choose then no logical person with half a brain will choose it, and if they already have it might be seen packing different caliber weapons.

My personal testing and experiences with the round as well as the research I have done show it being a very effective round for a sidearm and thinking of it in a Glock Gen 4 with a reduction of muzzle flip and felt recoil as also being very attractive.