[alwaysshootin]

Originally Posted by nickE10mm

I love my G20SF so much ... there have been so many times I shot the SNOT out of it and it ran neck in neck with my Fusion (cause the guns normally out shoot me, like with most of us) ... and then i take it home and clean it ALL up in like 10 minutes ... and its ready to go again. BAM. Perfection. Honestly, the ONLY way I'd sell my G20SF is if they came out with an even smaller grip. LOL!! i got small hands

Who's leg are you trying to pull? You ain't selling your SF, no matter what they come out with!

[nickE10mm]

Originally Posted by alwaysshootin

Who's leg are you trying to pull? You ain't selling your SF, no matter what they come out with!

okay fine

[justin10mm]

My G20 was my first semi-auto centerfire handgun. I couldn't have made a better choice.

[Vandalozz]

Originally Posted by justin10mm

My G20 was my first semi-auto centerfire handgun. I couldn't have made a better choice.

It was my 2nd semi auto.... I carried a 70 series colt combat commander until 1991. I had to have the G20 10mm when it came out!! 15 rounds of 10mm!! Had to have it! I am on my 3rd G20 now. A G20sf, they just keep getting better and loaded with Underwood 155's at 1500fps, as much firepower as you will ever need!! If you need more than that as a civilian you might want to carry a G3 instead LOL... 10mm still reigns supreme in my world at least!!!

[vdub804]

Just picked up my G20SF this week and all I can say is , I'm very impressed with this pistol not only does it feel good in my hands it's also very accurate to boot. I was shocked by all the horror stories that I read on the net describing the G20 as an uncontrollable demon (talk about exaggeration) even with hot loads the recoil is very manageable. sn: I just found out that you
can shoot .40 out of the stock barrel which is another + since 10mm ammo can sometimes be difficult to come by.

[justin10mm]

I would suggest you buy a 10mm to .40 conversion barrel for your G20. Probably not a good idea to use the stock 10mm barrel with .40 ammo.

[RYT 2BER]

Originally Posted by took

My G29 is my do all handgun, I carry it in the woods, wal-mart and it stands guard on the night stand. Now that is a truly versatile handgun

Ummm depending on what woods you're walking in I could say that about a lot of guns and calibers.. just sayin

[RYT 2BER]

Originally Posted by vdub804

I was shocked by all the horror stories that I read on the net describing the G20 as an uncontrollable demon (talk about exaggeration) even with hot loads the recoil is very manageable.

Well of course... What would the Internet be without incessant blabbering of "horrific recoil".

50% of the people on gt should be shooting only .22 from he way they whine about .40.. my wife *****es less about .40 than some of the "men" (cough) on this site.....

[jp3975]

I had a 20 and I liked it well enough. I dont reload, however and eventually switched to 9mm. Currantly pretty happy with a Steyr M9A1...but Im going to switch to the Caracal whenever I can afford a new pistol. Havent decided if I'll get a pistol or another AK first. I may even get a Tavor instead of the AK.

[Wolf Spyder]

Originally Posted by vdub804

I just found out that you can shoot .40 out of the stock barrel which is another + since 10mm ammo can sometimes be difficult to come by.

While this maybe true... it is not recommended. I have done it on several occasions, but it only takes once for all the planets to line up and "Murphy" to rear his ugly head. It is not a good day when Murphy's Law bites you on the ***. I consider .40S&W use in a stock 10mm barrel as a last resort.

[jp3975]

Originally Posted by RYT 2BER

Well of course... What would the Internet be without incessant blabbering of "horrific recoil".

50% of the people on gt should be shooting only .22 from he way they whine about .40.. my wife *****es less about .40 than some of the "men" (cough) on this site.....

The first pistol I let my 11 year old bro in law shoot was a G20. He did fine and actually shot decent groups.

If an 11 year old newb isnt bothered by the recoil and you are...you either have medical problems or you should be ashamed.

[Angry Fist]

My 9yo shot the G20 with .40 conversion just fine, with a little support.

[kyredneck1911]

Love my G20!! Since the SF model came out my LGS has alot of MINT condition G20's coming in and I was able to pick one up for a STEAL of a DEAL !! I like the larger grip better than the SF so it was a win win for me. I hunt Deer and Hogs with mine and goes with me on every outdoor outing trips, camping, atv'n, ect. and I feel 100% safe with any dangerous critter that may come around be it 2 or 4 legged.

[vdub804]

I agree although shooting .40 out of the stock 10mm barrel can be done, it is taking an unnecessary and potentially dangerous risk. Especially when you can get a lw or kkm and call it a day.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2

[Rigormootis]

I would have to say it's (G29sf) in my top 2-3. Heck, the only centerfire autoloaders I have anymore are: G19, G29sf, and G26....(all 3rd gen, FWIW). I think I would also rank them in that order of my preference/which gets the most use. So far, the G19 is the only one I have several of...perhaps my G29sf will get a 'twin' soon.

[BruceO]

Is the G20 and/or the G29 the best 10mm pistol out there or even the best pistol of any chambering available?

As John Wayne used to say: "not hardly!".

Are they reliable tools-yes. Are they accurate? Depends on your notion of accuracy? The ones I've seen have good, service level accuracy but I don't see anybody doing Bullseye shooting running to get a chunk of Austrian Perfection. I wouldn't want one for a hunting gun. If your concern is making center mass hits at 7 yds., that's a different criteria.

[alwaysshootin]

Originally Posted by BruceO

Is the G20 and/or the G29 the best 10mm pistol out there or even the best pistol of any chambering available?

As John Wayne used to say: "not hardly!".

John Wayne, never shot a 10MM ! So no, he never made that statement about the 20, or 29! If he had fired the "10" in either of those firearms, I'm sure it would have been one of his favorites.

[BruceO]

If he had fired the "10" in either of those firearms, I'm sure it would have been one of his favorites.

I think he would shoot something American made. Regardless, the Glocks are neither the best autoloader out there nor the best 10mm autoloader.

[Rigormootis]

Originally Posted by BruceO

Is the G20 and/or the G29 the best 10mm pistol out there or even the best pistol of any chambering available?

As John Wayne used to say: "not hardly!".

Are they reliable tools-yes. Are they accurate? Depends on your notion of accuracy? The ones I've seen have good, service level accuracy but I don't see anybody doing Bullseye shooting running to get a chunk of Austrian Perfection. I wouldn't want one for a hunting gun. If your concern is making center mass hits at 7 yds., that's a different criteria.

I also don't see many people carrying a pistol set-up for bullseye shooting as their main carry/defensive/hunting sidearm. What other autoloader do you feel is significantly better as a hunting sidearm than say a Glock 20 + a 6" barrel?

As to the "only accurate to 7 yards" part...well, I am usually not the one to dive in on these things, but I can’t help wondering how many Glocks you have actually fired. Sure, the average G29 is not a match-tuned 1911 (they’re not intended to be, nor are they priced as such), but people use Glocks all the time for "other" competitions (though, not typically bullseye) and I have been known to turn some heads one occasion with my lowly 19. Sure, I don't reliably shoot 2-3" groups at 25 yards, but honest 4-6" (15rd., offhand) is pretty routine for me with my 19 (I really only try to keep all my shots on 6" paper plates when shooting 25yrds). I'm guessing I'd do even better with the longer sight radius of a G34, but <6" @25yrds. (offhand) is good enough for my purposes so I never have picked one up.

I frequently hear many people shortchanging the accuracy of Glocks – that’s usually until they actually fire them. I have honestly lost count of how any people I have seen grudingly convert to owning at least one after they actually gained some experience with them (usually with one of my loaners) and let practicality trump their irrational dislike for "plastic things."

I write all this this as someone who had to eat crow & became converted myself. I used to own a good number of the production 10mm pistols made through 2003 or so: (1) Gold Cup, (1 each) S&W 1006, 1066, 1086, 1076, 610-1 (6”), 610-1 (4”), (2) G20s and a G29. Of all these, I initially had the biggest soft spot for the 1006 and really wanted to pick up a 1st Gen Razorback...then I was in head-over-heals with my 610s and only "tolerated" the Glocks because they were just too darned good on paper not to own (large capacity, extended barrels, etc.). Frankly, I know I especially liked all my S&Ws and the Colt because they weren’t “plastic” like the Glocks…yet, after who knows how many rounds downrange later, I eventually had a change of heart. Yes, I really did try to prefer my "all steel guns" to my Glocks for many years. I even sold off my Glock 10mms ~10 or so years ago (to some members here)-- only to buy back one when the G29sf came out and I ultimately have now let all those "apparently-better-because-they're-all-steel" 10mm guns go.

Now…past 25 yards, I am certainly more accurate with a 6" revolver than my current 29sf, but that is likely due mostly to the significantly longer sight radius of my 610 rather than it being “a better gun.” As things stand now, if I need to hit something beyond my capabilities with my G29, I most often just carry a rifle….and generally leave my 610 at home. So, the G29sf is “the best 10mm autoloader” for me. Would I like a DW Razorback or custom 1911? Of course -- but at ~$500 ea, the Glocks can't be beat for what I need them to do. Were it that "bullseye shooting" was the only thing I cared about, I might still sing a different tune.

[alwaysshootin]

Originally Posted by BruceO

I think he would shoot something American made. Regardless, the Glocks are neither the best autoloader out there nor the best 10mm autoloader.

Some would say the same about "Gunny", but we all know his decision!

[BruceO]

As to the "only accurate to 7 yards" part...well, I am usually not the one to dive in on these things, but I can’t help wondering how many Glocks you have actually fired. Sure, the average G29 is not a match-tuned 1911 (they’re not intended to be, nor are they priced as such), but people use Glocks all the time for "other" competitions (though, not typically bullseye) and I have been known to turn some heads one occasion with my lowly 19. Sure, I don't reliably shoot 2-3" groups at 25 yards, but honest 4-6" (15rd., offhand) is pretty routine for me with my 19 (I really only try to keep all my shots on 6" paper plates when shooting 25yrds). I'm guessing I'd do even better with the longer sight radius of a G34, but <6" @25yrds. (offhand) is good enough for my purposes so I never have picked one up.

Thank you for reinforcing my thoughts on the matter! I quess I really don't understand how you can make these all encompassing statement that this or that is "The Best" and then add a slew of qualifications when defending the statement. Just so you know, my primitive technology N-frame Smith & Wesson magnum revolvers will shoot less than 1 1/2" 25 meter groups. This makes 4"-6" look pretty inaccurate. My 8/3/8" M629 will shoot 2 1/2" or less a 50 meters without any real load development. Again, it all depends on what your notion of accurate is. I haven't seen anything in this thread which refutes anything I've said. This is not to say that Glocks are not reliable or reasonably accurate for their intended use but "The Best"? Unless you're a Glock Fanboy with no capability to rational, linear thought precesses, not so much.

Some would say the same about "Gunny", but we all know his decision!

In "gunny's" case, he knows who butters his bread and that's the beginning and end of that.

[alwaysshootin]

[QUOTE=BruceO;19304505]
In "gunny's" case, he knows who butters his bread and that's the beginning and end of that.[/QUOTE


You are kind of humorous!

A man of gunny's achievements, and status, and, you think, for a second, he would endorse a product, and, not believe in the product, Glock?

You don't think, Sig, Colt, or Springfield would love his endorsement? You don't think they tried for his endorsement? Of course they did, and yet he chose to endorse Glock! Again Believe as you will, I've owned most if not all platforms of firearms. I'll take a Glock, thanks!

[Rigormootis]

Well Bruce, you can drink your own Kool-Aid and think what you want. You can even feel smug about it. The problem is that no one can "refute you" since you haven't really said anything concerete yet. From my point of view,

1. Accuracy isn't everything. It is only one of several qualities I want in a firearm that needs to be overall balanced with reliability, portability, capacity, price, etc. It's a package deal. IMO, a G20/29 can do most things better than other 10mm guns I have owned (and actually took the time to list). Some of the others (like my 6" S&W 610) are better for a few specific tasks, but fall far short of the Glocks in others.

2. This thread is about 10mm semi autos. You have yet to name what 10mm semi auto you consider to be "better" (and why).

3. If you are going to be a contrarian, how about pony up some specific alternatives instead of just bluster? I would honestly appreciate to hear your arguments for something instead of only everything you think is lacking about Glocks.

[BruceO]

Originally Posted by Rigormootis

Well Bruce, you can drink your own Kool-Aid and think what you want. You can even feel smug about it. The problem is that no one can "refute you" since you haven't really said anything concerete yet. From my point of view,

1. Accuracy isn't everything. It is only one of several qualities I want in a firearm that needs to be overall balanced with reliability, portability, capacity, price, etc. It's a package deal. IMO, a G20/29 can do most things better than other 10mm guns I have owned (and actually took the time to list). Some of the others (like my 6" S&W 610) are better for a few specific tasks, but fall far short of the Glocks in others.

2. This thread is about 10mm semi autos. You have yet to name what 10mm semi auto you consider to be "better" (and why).

3. If you are going to be a contrarian, how about pony up some specific alternatives instead of just bluster? I would honestly appreciate to hear your arguments for something instead of only everything you think is lacking about Glocks.

If you look over at the Bren-Ten.com Website, you'll find that I'm a moderator over there. The fact is that I own 15 or so of those little gems along with a 6 1/2" Smith M610 no dash, a SA Omega and I don't know how many other S&W handguns. I also spent seven or eight years of my off time life doing research with Ron Carrillo for the book "Bren Ten-The Heir Apparent".

The fact of the matter is that the Smith 10xx series guns, the mid production Bren Tens, the Omegas and even the Dan Wesson Razorback & Pointman are superior to the Glock in both ergonomics and accuracy although the Omega and the DW may need a bit of tweaking. Most 1911's do. I really don't like the 1911 for 10mm because the dynamics of the round overwhelm the 1911 platform although you can make it work, at least for awhile. The 1911's issue is the swinging link and has nothing do do with it's ability to contain chamber pressure. Also the 10mm slide velocity vs the barrel lugs and slide lug recesses are mutually incompatible long term.

The Smith 10xx series I've shot have accuracy levels equal and usually better than the Glock. The Omega, Smith M610 and the DW guns are just a lot better. The 1911's have better trigger pulls out of the box. The Bren Ten feels substantially better-even better in my hand than the CZ75 and it's clones. Both the SA and DA pulls and pull weights are better than any other traditional DA pistol I've encountered. The Smith 1006 DA pull is long and a little mushy but the single action after the first shot is pretty decent. The Bren Ten's single and double action are, again excellent. By the way, have you ever shot a Bren Ten?

You asked if I ever shot a Glock. I have and was totally underwhelmed by it. The feeling has nothing to do with it's high reliability and, it is sufficiently accurate for it's intended purposes. I find the grip width & angle, sights, lack of external manual safeties and especially the stock trigger pull characteristics not to my liking. I don't own one now and never will for the above reasons. It's a good gun but hardly The Best. For those who are enamored with the polymer Austrian Perfection, c'est lavie.

The statement that the Glocks are the best is an absolute statement-no qualifications. The main point of my statement is that the Glock 20 and 29 are neither the best 10mm pistols or best pistol out there. They don't have the best accuracy or ergonomics-period. End of debate. I don't need to qualify my statement with language such as "for the price" " considering reliability along with the accuracy levels for my needs" or any other which way. The statement that they were the best didn't contain any qualifications and neither should the responses. However, should you want to play the game of "but if my mother was a man, she'd be my father", feel free to do so.

Incidentally, Gunny is under contract with Glock USA and the product he promotes is a good one. My statement does not besmirch his integrity but rather restate the obvious; that he's a paid spokesperson. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Rigormootis]

Originally Posted by BruceO

If you look over at the Bren-Ten.com Website, you'll find that I'm a moderator over there. The fact is that I own 15 or so of those little gems along with a 6 1/2" Smith M610 no dash, a SA Omega and I don't know how many other S&W handguns. I also spent seven or eight years of my off time life doing research with Ron Carrillo for the book "Bren Ten-The Heir Apparent".

The fact of the matter is that the Smith 10xx series guns, the mid production Bren Tens, the Omegas and even the Dan Wesson Razorback & Pointman are superior to the Glock in both ergonomics and accuracy although the Omega and the DW may need a bit of tweaking. Most 1911's do. I really don't like the 1911 for 10mm because the dynamics of the round overwhelm the 1911 platform although you can make it work, at least for awhile. The 1911's issue is the swinging link and has nothing do do with it's ability to contain chamber pressure. Also the 10mm slide velocity vs the barrel lugs and slide lug recesses are mutually incompatible long term.

The Smith 10xx series I've shot have accuracy levels equal and usually better than the Glock. The Omega, Smith M610 and the DW guns are just a lot better. The 1911's have better trigger pulls out of the box. The Bren Ten feels substantially better-even better in my hand than the CZ75 and it's clones. Both the SA and DA pulls and pull weights are better than any other traditional DA pistol I've encountered. The Smith 1006 DA pull s long and a little mushy but the single action after the first shot is pretty decent. The Bren Ten's single and double action are, again excellent. By the way, have you ever shot a Bren Ten?

You asked if I ever shot a Glock. I have and was totally underwhelmed by it. The feeling has nothing to do with it's high reliability and, it is sufficiently accurate for it's intended purposes. I find the grip width & angle, sights, lack of external manual safeties and especially the stock trigger pull characteristics not to my liking. I don't own one now and never will for the above reasons. It's a good gun but hardly The Best. For those who are enamored with the polymer Austrian Perfection, c'est lavie.

The statement that the Glocks are the best is an absolute statement-no qualifications. The main point of my statement is that the Glock 20 and 29 are neither the best 10mm pistols or best pistol out there. They don't have the best accuracy or ergonomics-period. end of debate. I don't need to qualify my statement with language such as "for the price" " considering reliability along with the accuracy levels for my needs" or any other which way. The statement that they were the best didn't contain any qualifications and neither should the responses. However, should you want to play the game of "but if my mother was a man, she'd be my father", feel free to do so.

Incidentally, Gunny is under contract with Glock USA and the product he promotes is a good one. My statement does not besmirch his integrity but rather restate the obvious; that he's a paid spokesperson. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks (I guess) for finally offering something we can consider (vs. your previously unsubstantiated "Glocks aren't as good as your mystery favorites" posts)...but, Oh brother -- I didn't realize this was a "sport" for you (don’t worry, I'll help you document your trophy posts).

Yes, your ego is safe since I promise to not to threaten it anymore by daring to question your apparently infallible ability to know what’s “best” for everyone. Gee, I’m sure glad we have you to decide these things for all of us!



Consider that while you are obviously entitled to your own opinion, so are others. Your perspective is no more of less valid that those who have posted here --- regardless of how much or little you consider when you offer your own personal criterion for "best pistol"... of course, as "a moderator," you should already know this… I’m sure that somewhere buried in your posts is a section I obviously missed where you offered a respectful acknowledgement of the experience and expertise of all the other “little people” who have posted here. So I guess after all, I’m sure we're all glad we have been set straight by your wisdom.



P.S., I have had the pleasure of firing and nearly buying a Bren-10 when I was really building my 10mm collection around 1998-2002. It was a very fine firearm, but frankly, I didn’t personally think the overall ergos were sufficiently better (I’ve got medium hands & short fingers) than the S&W 10xx series and the one Delta Elite I already had to “wow me” into being able to justify the price tag for what I still consider a (mainly) novelty/boutique/historically-interesting gun. So, I ended up not liberating that particular one from its owner – and I don’t regret it. Of course, I’m perfectly happy you like them…but I do wish you didn’t seem to take it so personally that informed others (like me) don’t always think the same way.

As for dismissing "the Gunny" because (after all) he's a paid Glock spokesman...why shouldn't others at least suspect "a moderator of the Bren forum / co-researcher of a Bren-10 fan book" might be at least a little biased? Pot <--> kettle?

Anyway -- I must remember that I've got a promise to keep (you're "safe," remember?), so I'm just going to let this lie now.