GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-18-2012, 09:05   #76
H&K 4 LIFE
Leonum A Ignis
 
H&K 4 LIFE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 3,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooderson76 View Post
well in that case......h&k...the best $150 pistol $900 can buy. H&K's are over priced junk.the only idiots that defend them are the ones who try and justify spending $900 on plastic!!!!
I find it hilarious that you refer to what is essentially well made and high quality equipment as being "junk". Are HK's the be all and end all of pistols? I do not think so, I don't believe any one pistol is. But the fact remains they are far from being, as you propose, "junk", and to say so truly speaks to your clear lack of understanding.

- HK pistols are designed to meet or exceed NATO specifications. NATO spec testing includes tests not conducted by many commercial manufacturers such as drop tests, salt water, obstructed bore tests, extreme temps, ice, static, sand, etc.

- HK uses the highest quality materials (steel, polymer, and molds). The production costs are also high due to the cost of the precision tooling and QC checks HK puts into their manufacture. HK produces the majority of all parts in house which keeps the QC on every component very tight. The barrels and slides are machined from solid pieces of chromium steel bar stock. Most of the pistols internals are coated with a Dow Corning process that increases the natural lubricity between parts and protects against corrosion.

- 100% of HK pistols are proof tested and factory zeroed. They do not test just a small percentage of their pistols, like some other companies do. Most HK pistols are capable of the match grade accuracy of a custom/semi-custom 1911, yet achieve this at less cost and without any of the tightly hand fitted parts that goes into building a 1911. All HK pistols are also assembled by master armorers, not armorers apprentices.

- HK rigorously tests their products to destruction in a "Firing Lab" manned with very senior test personnel before the design is frozen. This reduces the incidence of post-release issues. Heckler & Koch Forum HK also takes and tests its products at remote environmental test facilities to include desert (Yuma Proving Grounds, Saudi Arabia), arctic (Norway, Alaska), jungle (Brunei, Panama).

Don't like HK pistols? That's just fine. But your argument is a seriously flawed one as it has no factual basis to back it up. In addition, your childish name calling (referring to other people as "idiots") is both unwarranted and unnecessary.
__________________
"Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft." ~ Theodore Roosevelt
H&K 4 LIFE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 11:03   #77
The Retired Sarge
"The Sarge"
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 556
Guess I touched off some raw nerves and that is funny. No defense of Heckler & Koch as they don't need defended.

On the subject of HK marketing, what marketing? It is almost non-existant. You don't see HK ads on TV or in gun rags and HK could care less. You have to search and inquire about HK as they don't shove their products in your face. But I guess that is hype. Their driving focus is military and special ops even more so. In reality HK could care less about LE and the shooting public. The performance reputation in actual military operations is their marketing. Bill
The Retired Sarge is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2012, 22:56   #78
tgmr05
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Retired Sarge View Post
Guess I touched off some raw nerves and that is funny. No defense of Heckler & Koch as they don't need defended.

On the subject of HK marketing, what marketing? It is almost non-existant. You don't see HK ads on TV or in gun rags and HK could care less. You have to search and inquire about HK as they don't shove their products in your face. But I guess that is hype. Their driving focus is military and special ops even more so. In reality HK could care less about LE and the shooting public. The performance reputation in actual military operations is their marketing. Bill
Talk about touching raw nerves.

Someone sure does have a misunderstanding of marketing. All those HK products in movies, remember all those mp-5s in movies, p7s, usp's, and on and on .... No ads in gun rags? Really??? Try again...

HK does care about LE, and the shooting public. Otherwise, they would not exist. HK makes a very good product, and it is highly unlikely you will find a superior product for less. But is HK truly superior,...um, no.. Unless you count saturday night specials as comparable competition to HK...




Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
tgmr05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 05:25   #79
theHIGHLANDER
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: S. E. Mich
Posts: 10
I have 8 or 10 gun mags from the last 2yrs. Not 1 has an HK ad, but I think it's because Springfield and Kimber took all the space. Kahr squeezed in a few if memory serves, and after our purchase I looked in the ad index for HK...nope.

For the record, I'm not raising my rt hand to the fact that they NEVER advertise, just not in the 3-4 publications I picked up. So what does that mean? In the context of this topic, nuttin at all.

When you shoot it, you know. Any forum that has an HK pg there's always a new "...I love my HK (fill in your favorite)" right after purchase. In guns for sale, they don't last (unless they're asking price is silly) and are usually in the list of trades accepted. To say they're not what they are is simple denial. To empty a mag and hand it back and say "Well, it's ok..." might mean the quality got missed on that shooter. ANYBODY can get down right surgical accuracy with ANYTHING if they practice enough. Mrs H grouped her 1st 6 out of 7 shots within 6" at 15yds, with the p2000. For defensive shooting I'd say that's good enough. Could she do that with a Glock? A Springer? Maybe, maybe not.

In the end, if you can't see or feel the difference, don't buy it. If 20k rounds before parts means nothing that's ok too, but to me that's an added + in the name of resale value if you ever had to sell or wanted to move one way or another. And I know to some that means squat but it's there. Then again, maybe we who do get it are just a buncha victims of some mystical marketing hypnosis? Nah...
theHIGHLANDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 12:37   #80
ithaca_deerslayer
Senior Member
 
ithaca_deerslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 18,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
I personally think HK makes the best polymer handguns.
You spelled Glock wrong.

ithaca_deerslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 18:34   #81
OrGlocker
Senior Member
 
OrGlocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooderson76 View Post
well in that case......h&k...the best $150 pistol $900 can buy. H&K's are over priced junk.the only idiots that defend them are the ones who try and justify spending $900 on plastic!!!!
Really, as the saying goes you get what you pay for, superb engineering.
__________________
NRA Life Member
NRA Pistol Instructor & Range Safety Officer
GSSF Life Member
OrGlocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2012, 07:00   #82
conch27
Member
 
conch27's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 99
I love the quality and attention to detail of HK firearms. I find the longer I am around the more I see my other firearms leaving and more HK's are filling my safe. Looking forward to my recently ordered MK 23. As far as the cost that is all subjective. I would much rather pay for something I am going to keep rather than trade in. I like the feel of quality.
__________________
Be safe and think so you do not screw it up for the rest of us.
conch27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2012, 07:58   #83
birda40
Woody
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chicago, Ill.
Posts: 324
I have the P-30 9mm. Loved it the first time I picked it up and shot it. Noticed it racks smoother than others. The grip is fantastic accuracy is great. There is no shooting low left or having to learn the gun itself. I rarely spend this kind of money on a pistol but this one just caught me from the beginning. I was visiting some of my relatives in Tenn. over the 4th. Of course we shot some cans, my brothers , sis and her hubby especially kept looking at the HK. I didn't have the heart to tell them how much I dished out for it but they were impressed at first glance as I. We had Glocks, XDM's, bersa, berreta's guess a smorgishboard. The HK still got the most thumbs up's.
birda40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2012, 18:04   #84
Aceman
Senior Member
 
Aceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,386
Yes.

Usually in reality, always in attitude.
Aceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 01:44   #85
NEOH212
Diesel Girl
 
NEOH212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 8,849
Maybe if I wash my HK with koolaid it will be as cool and as good as a Glock.


__________________
Diesel pickup, lift kit, 10mm, loud exhaust, big dog.... You didn't get enough attention as kid did you?
NEOH212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 01:45   #86
NEOH212
Diesel Girl
 
NEOH212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 8,849
There again Koolaid tastes like crap. No amount of sugar can make any koolaid as naturally sweet as a HK!
__________________
Diesel pickup, lift kit, 10mm, loud exhaust, big dog.... You didn't get enough attention as kid did you?
NEOH212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 09:05   #87
USMC03Grunt
Senior Member
 
USMC03Grunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Somewhere in 13T EG
Posts: 1,265
I have to wonder if the haters have that much first hand experience with HK ooutside of maybe firing a few rounds from a rental or friends HK? Myself, I own and shoot regularly 2 USPs (45 full size and 40 compact) 3 Sigs, 4 Glocks, Springfields, Kimbers, Rugers, Browning, Beretta, CZ, EAA and other minor brands as well (although I'm still missing a M&P 45 that needs to be corrected) and I can say that the HK are the best built and highest quality of the lot. The Sigs are close but HK still hedges them out.
USMC03Grunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 11:40   #88
Chronos
Senior Member
 
Chronos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,934
My P7M8 is really a neat piece of work, with some good mechanical accuracy. The engineering is elaborate and innovative. The sights are well-designed right out of the box, and I have no doubt that it was put together by highly paid workers and test fired by even higher paid senior personnel and that the barrel was cold hammer forged by the highest paid cold hammer forgers to be found anywhere in Germany, etc.

The only trouble is, I'm really at a loss to think of a situation where I'd prefer to have it with me compared to one of my Glocks -- usually quite the opposite, and for very tangible reasons.
__________________
If you've already accepted that "violence against the innocent" is a morally legitimate means of funding the government, who are you to complain when the majority apprporiates your legacy and sells your children into a lifetime of debt slavery?
Chronos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 15:54   #89
USMC03Grunt
Senior Member
 
USMC03Grunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Somewhere in 13T EG
Posts: 1,265
One other thing to consider about the USP design that no other model matches is something that is important to those of us living in colder climates. When I talk cold weather climates, I'm not talking spending a couple hours outside in 20-30 degree temps. I'm talking about spending the entire day outside in 20-30 degrees BELOW zero temps and having the gloves heavy enough to keep black frozen fingers at bay! I don't care how well a 1911, Glock, Sig, or whatever else comes to mind works in sub-zero weather, it's not going to work at all if you can't get a glove into the trigger guard to manipulate the trigger. A USP carried cocked and locked offers a cavern that even the heaviest glove can still access without difficulty or the danger of a negligent discharge because your glove was too thick to get in there without accidently depressing the trigger. The CZ/EAA Witness models come in close but still not as large as the USP trigger guard. Again, it's little details like this that HK provides in its products that other makers overlook.
USMC03Grunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 20:50   #90
RJ's Guns
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 757
[QUOTE=deeHKman;19042824] Look at what Todd Green can do with a HK45 he broke below 2 second's(Bill Drill) with a concealed HK45.
QUOTE]

That was very fast. It would have been better to see where his hits were on the target.

RJ
RJ's Guns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 01:18   #91
WayaX
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
WayaX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ's Guns View Post
That was very fast. It would have been better to see where his hits were on the target.

RJ
Todd is known for pushing both speed and accuracy. I would not doubt that all his hits were on target.
__________________
"Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph."

-Haile Selassie I
WayaX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2012, 16:07   #92
agb
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York State
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by H&K 4 LIFE View Post
I find it hilarious that you refer to what is essentially well made and high quality equipment as being "junk". Are HK's the be all and end all of pistols? I do not think so, I don't believe any one pistol is. But the fact remains they are far from being, as you propose, "junk", and to say so truly speaks to your clear lack of understanding.

- HK pistols are designed to meet or exceed NATO specifications. NATO spec testing includes tests not conducted by many commercial manufacturers such as drop tests, salt water, obstructed bore tests, extreme temps, ice, static, sand, etc.

- HK uses the highest quality materials (steel, polymer, and molds). The production costs are also high due to the cost of the precision tooling and QC checks HK puts into their manufacture. HK produces the majority of all parts in house which keeps the QC on every component very tight. The barrels and slides are machined from solid pieces of chromium steel bar stock. Most of the pistols internals are coated with a Dow Corning process that increases the natural lubricity between parts and protects against corrosion.

- 100% of HK pistols are proof tested and factory zeroed. They do not test just a small percentage of their pistols, like some other companies do. Most HK pistols are capable of the match grade accuracy of a custom/semi-custom 1911, yet achieve this at less cost and without any of the tightly hand fitted parts that goes into building a 1911. All HK pistols are also assembled by master armorers, not armorers apprentices.

- HK rigorously tests their products to destruction in a "Firing Lab" manned with very senior test personnel before the design is frozen. This reduces the incidence of post-release issues. Heckler & Koch Forum HK also takes and tests its products at remote environmental test facilities to include desert (Yuma Proving Grounds, Saudi Arabia), arctic (Norway, Alaska), jungle (Brunei, Panama).

Don't like HK pistols? That's just fine. But your argument is a seriously flawed one as it has no factual basis to back it up. In addition, your childish name calling (referring to other people as "idiots") is both unwarranted and unnecessary.
Anyone who thinks HK is junk clearly has never held or shot an HK USP or P2000. Unlubricated and degreased, the HK sill works in the most disastrous conditions that others will not. HK, unlike GLOCK, fully supports the cartridge in the chamber. Few HKs break apart in use. The world's wealthiest militaries spring for HKs, pistols AND machine guns.

Manufacturers of machine guns have a great edge over manufacturers of handguns only because they have long ago subdued timing issues. Beretta and HK both qualify. Others do not. Timing is everything - in a select fire and semi auto and in life in general.

In contrast to the unreality expressed by the respondent who would equate a Glock to an HK , and in concert with reality (reality is being what is so), one can say the HK pistols may be the very best modern pistols made today. Better materials and better design. Exemplifying what good engineering is all about. Or, as they say, NO COMPROMISE.

I own a variety of pistol makes, but don't carry the HK USP and P2000sk because even when they call it a subcompact I prefer a smaller pistol in shorts, Tshirt and flip flops. Thus I chose, and this was after a year of playing with the others and ten of owning some like the Kahr PM9, to carry the Beretta NANO. The reasons why can be found here:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthre...3#post19245403

Personally, I am surprised that HK didn't come out with the NANO and Beretta has. Both are mainly marketers to the militaries around the globe and the NANO can be considered a significant evolutionary step in small handgun design that appears to be a mini Glock - but is anything but.

While I'll be the first to say that price may not have much to do with quality, in the case of the HKs v Glocks, it clearly does. In the case of the Kimber SOLO/Kahr PM 9 v. Beretta Nano price has nothing to do with quality. The aforementioned explains why. Beretta is selling its contender at the margin (happy to sell at a lower profit) and Kimber cannot meet demand. Kimber also sells at the higher price so dealers push (promote) the weapon on customers. Yet still, for the reasons mentioned in the link, the Nano is likely the superior weapon. Quality one can feel. and....Mostly because it works.
__________________
Give War a Chance!
agb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2012, 18:41   #93
agb
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York State
Posts: 50
Someone sure does have a misunderstanding of marketing. All those HK products in movies, remember all those mp-5s in movies, p7s, usp's, and on and on .... No ads in gun rags? Really??? Try again...

HK does care about LE, and the shooting public. Otherwise, they would not exist. HK makes a very good product, and it is highly unlikely you will find a superior product for less. But is HK truly superior,...um, no.. Unless you count saturday night specials as comparable competition to HK...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Those who can afford a Ferrari often buy it. Those who can't can never buy it.

You are serious? HKs comparable to Saturday Night specials? Is that why the militaries and secret services of nations that can afford the best buy HKs and those that cannot buy Glocks?

To compare HK to Glock one needs to compare the manufacturing, testing and hard use performance and the materials used. All polymers are not the same. All steel is not the same. Degrease a Glock, throw some sand in it. Fire 500 rounds with zero FTF. OK, you can't. HK can.

That, is the bottom line.

With some noted exceptions, you do get what you pay for.

The Glocks were imposed on the LEOs of this nation by corrupt politicians and an even more corrupt firearms manufacturer who knew how to hype an inferior product.

I end my case with this:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...7036107809.htm
__________________
Give War a Chance!
agb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2012, 19:20   #94
gofastman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 497
Quote:
Degrease a Glock, throw some sand in it. Fire 500 rounds with zero FTF. OK, you can't.
since when?
__________________
You have reached the end of the internet.
Now go outside and play.
gofastman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2012, 19:54   #95
agb
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York State
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by gofastman View Post
since when?
The Glocks were imposed on the LEOs of this nation by corrupt politicians and an even more corrupt firearms manufacturer who knew how to hype an inferior product.

I end my case with this:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...7036107809.htm
__________________
Give War a Chance!
agb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2012, 20:58   #96
El_Ron1
AAAAAAAAGHHH!!!
 
El_Ron1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Redneck Sparta
Posts: 88,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by conch27 View Post
I love the quality and attention to detail of HK firearms.





Heckler & Koch Forum
__________________
“If you can play on the fiddle,
How's about a British jig and reel?"
El_Ron1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2012, 21:16   #97
Ruggles
Senior Member
 
Ruggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tejas
Posts: 8,402
They certainly make world class stuff, not sure if "best" though, not sure that can ever be determined when speaking of firearms. I prefer the Walther poly guns myself but can't go wrong with an HK that is for sure. I agree the P7 needs to return
Ruggles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2012, 22:06   #98
agb
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York State
Posts: 50
Walther is also a German pistol and it is a quality firearm. I own the PPS and like it a lot.
The HKs have double strike capability if a primer doesn't ignite, hammer fired and more suitable for military-combat use, it is a bit heavier duty. There are US band guns today that are fine too, the Beretta NANO for one. Among the mini 9s it is the most reliable and - my opinion - the best engineered, snag free design that has eliminated levers and such. It is an evolution of the small pistol. What can one expect from a 500 year old firm after all?
__________________
Give War a Chance!

Last edited by agb; 07-28-2012 at 22:08.. Reason: adding
agb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2012, 08:02   #99
Tactical23
Member
 
Tactical23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 84
I absolutely love my USP. So far it's the best handgun I've owned.
__________________
Don't Tread On Me
Tactical23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2012, 08:26   #100
agb
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York State
Posts: 50
Removed Alex Jones video, BS meter went off scale!

http://acsbore.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/acs-bs.gif
__________________
Give War a Chance!

Last edited by agb; 07-29-2012 at 19:12.. Reason: BS METER BLEW UP
agb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:38.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,240
361 Members
879 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42