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Old 05-26-2012, 17:53   #101
themighty9mm
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Originally Posted by Check my Gat View Post
Stands up to high volume use very poorly. I've seen M9s that are all over a human silhouette, fired from a rest, because they've got a pretty unimpressive but high for the type round count. This is unacceptable in a military issue pistol with the amount of rounds we fire in pre-deployment training.
Just because the shooter was using a rest doesnt mean there is no human error. I have a 92fs (the exact same thing as the m9) At 15 - 20 yards if I do my part I still get palm sized groups and I have small hands. I have personally put just a hair under 20,000 rounds through... I bought it used. Another shooter by the name of ben stoger has well over 100,000 rounds through a couple different 92s/varients. Funny thing is they still group fine.
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:06   #102
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Originally Posted by themighty9mm View Post
Just because the shooter was using a rest doesnt mean there is no human error. I have a 92fs (the exact same thing as the m9) At 15 - 20 yards if I do my part I still get palm sized groups and I have small hands. I have personally put just a hair under 20,000 rounds through... I bought it used. Another shooter by the name of ben stoger has well over 100,000 rounds through a couple different 92s/varients. Funny thing is they still group fine.
20,000 rounds on a pistol is nothing. Privately owned weapons are maintained and used very very differently than issued pistols passed around different armories, hand receipts and end users.

We know well that the subcontracted magazines suck, the alloy parts wear quickly and minor parts break with unacceptable speed/frequency and stories about your private owner friends who skip under rainbows holding hands with their 92 doesn't change that reality.
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:19   #103
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Originally Posted by Check my Gat View Post
20,000 rounds on a pistol is nothing. Privately owned weapons are maintained and used very very differently than issued pistols passed around different armories, hand receipts and end users.

We know well that the subcontracted magazines suck, the alloy parts wear quickly and minor parts break with unacceptable speed/frequency and stories about your private owner friends who skip under rainbows holding hands with their 92 doesn't change that reality.
They are used differently? You guys dont shoot them? Are you using them a ladders? Hammer? Shoot them enough and place your mre on them to heat up the mre?
Or infact are you training with them, shooting them, and carrying them, maybe they get banged around on humvees and such but not a gigantic stretch from what most other people are doing with a handgun.

Are the GI's not issued cleaning kits? Are you just spitting on the rails and hoping for the best?
Or do you clean them after use/the days use, and report damages to the armorer much like you would with a m16/m4?

Subcontract mags you can not blame on the gun.

Alloy frames wear out quickly? 100,000 and still going strong rounds is quickly?

Minor parts break? Talking about springs and such? Every last gun will do that... Maybe someone should inform the armorer?
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:23   #104
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What I find amusing about the military is that everyone, in every branch, *****es about their equipment.

Had the SIG P226 become the M9, its reputation would have horribly suffered for it. Just look at all of the changes that took place on the pistol without being the front line pistol of a large Army that actually fights people.

The folded and stamped slide was ultimately a wear and tear no go.

The trigger bar spring used to be a watch area as it could chew its way across the grip frame towards the mag catch button hole until that area was beefed up in the milling program on later pistols.

The SIG series used to rust like crazy the moment you weren't looking directly at them.

The backup QB is always the most popular guy on the team because he is all about potential rather than the one out there taking the lumps.
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:27   #105
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Originally Posted by themighty9mm View Post
Are the GI's not issued cleaning kits?
The fact that you're calling soldiers "GI" communicates to me clearly that you are poorly informed

Subcontract mags you can not blame on the gun.
I didn't but it is an issue all the same

Alloy frames wear out quickly? 100,000 and still going strong rounds is quickly?
No offense but I smell bull****. Not even close in my experience. Or Beretta's. Go ahead and scroll down to expected durability of the frame.
http://www.berettausa.com/products/model-92a1/


Minor parts break? Talking about springs and such? Every last gun will do that... Maybe someone should inform the armorer?
They shouldn't break at this rate in the first place, and if they break when you need the weapon you're super ****ed. We've seen this happen. Fly off with your BS little civy, even Beretta's reps would probably tell you 100,000 rounds smells like a load.
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:31   #106
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Hey guys....

I don't get it.

I'm all for vibrant discourse but....Why are you feeding this troll.

I'll be you a shinny new Nickel he 15 years old and his "real word experience" comes from playing "World of Warcraft".
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:35   #107
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Hey guys....

I don't get it.

I'm all for vibrant discourse but....Why are you feeding this troll.

I'll be you a shinny new Nickel he 15 years old and his "real word experience" comes from playing "World of Warcraft".
For sport, of course.
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:36   #108
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Hey guys....

I don't get it.

I'm all for vibrant discourse but....Why are you feeding this troll.

I'll be you a shinny new Nickel he 15 years old and his "real word experience" comes from playing "World of Warcraft".
How dare these little whippersnapper officers in their 30s have more experience in the contemporary operational environment than me.

The internet is great in that in can bring out the most juvenile behavior in anyone.
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:41   #109
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For sport, of course.
Are we in the presidential race or something? The discourse has gone something like this.

A)The Beretta's alloy parts cause it to have an inferior service life and excessive parts breakages.
B)Well I know a guy who claims he has fired more than that out of a very, very small sample size of weapons without issue.
A)Big deal, I've seen otherwise with a large sample size and Beretta's own claims don't disprove but also don't support yours.
B) (You, now) TROLL. YOU'RE 15 AND YOU'RE A BIG LIAR.

Seriously, you are very pathetic. Ciao.
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:41   #110
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They shouldn't break at this rate in the first place, and if they break when you need the weapon you're super ****ed. We've seen this happen. Fly off with your BS little civy, even Beretta's reps would probably tell you 100,000 rounds smells like a load.
Yea I called em GI's. What of it? Its a 6 and half a dozen issue.

Then why even bring the mags up? You would get the same experience with any issued sidearm

Go ahead and reread it. That is when the testing stopped.

They shouldnt break in the first place??? Any hard use gun will reveal the same result. Its a machine with small parts. Like every other machine ever made, ever. Things will break. No miracle behind it.

As for "my friend" hes not my friend. He shoots IDPA I beleive. Hes a sponsored shooter. You can talk to him yourself over on the beretta forum? Want me to give you a link? He is also far from the only one that has very similar results.

Little civvy? What exactly do you do, what branch? Let me guess you are actually a civilian cooking meals for the guys in basic?

Last edited by themighty9mm; 05-26-2012 at 18:46..
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:48   #111
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How dare these little whippersnapper officers in their 30s have more experience in the contemporary operational environment than me.

The internet is great in that in can bring out the most juvenile behavior in anyone.
Isnt it though? Your statement coming from a guy who just called me "little civvy" Cute right?

Last edited by themighty9mm; 05-26-2012 at 18:57..
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:48   #112
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Yea I called em GI's. What of it? Its a 6 and half a dozen issue.

Then why even bring the mags up? You would get the same experience with any issued sidearm
I've been exposed to a few issued sidearms that are issued on a unit basis and no, they don't

Go ahead and reread it. That is when the testing stopped.

They shouldnt break in the first place??? Any hard use gun will reveal the same result. Its a machine with small parts. Like every other machine ever made, ever. Things will break. No miracle behind it.

Little civvy? Let me guess, your the cook?
Right now I'm the S-3 at an Infantry battalion. Not exactly as qualified as retirees from not-infantry and civilians to comment if I have a dissenting opinion though, apparently.
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:48   #113
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You're demonstrating a profound lack of reading comprehension and critical thought here demonstrated by the following.

1)Failing to recognize clearly hyperbolic language.

2)When did we adopt the Garand and 1911? Oh, 8 and 10 decades ago respectively. That is not reflective of contemporary procurement procedures.

I was also unimpressed with the use of sarcasm in its lowest form, it is very passive aggressive and the kind of the thing that will get you a death stare in a briefing room. I welcome you to dismiss my statements, just do it straightforwardly.
OK. I dismiss your statement as either uneducated, or an unrecognizable attempt at making a an undecipherable point.

Happy now?

Last edited by countrygun; 05-26-2012 at 18:54..
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:49   #114
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Isnt it though? Your statement coming from a guy who just caled me "little civvy" Cute right?
You're in Independence MO so I made a pretty solid guess based on good evidence you're a civilian. I was probably right too.
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:50   #115
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I see another decent thread has turned into a GT pissing match.
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:50   #116
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Are we in the presidential race or something? The discourse has gone something like this.

A)The Beretta's alloy parts cause it to have an inferior service life and excessive parts breakages.
B)Well I know a guy who claims he has fired more than that out of a very, very small sample size of weapons without issue.
A)Big deal, I've seen otherwise with a large sample size and Beretta's own claims don't disprove but also don't support yours.
B) (You, now) TROLL. YOU'RE 15 AND YOU'RE A BIG LIAR.

Seriously, you are very pathetic. Ciao.
A) You still havnt showed them to have a inferior service life?
b) We know a guy who claims to be in the services, claims to have seem a large sample size
C) arnt you kinda trolling aswell? Hard to throw rocks when you live in a glass house?
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:51   #117
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OK. I dismiss yout statement as either uneducated, or an unrecognizable attempt at making a an undecipherable point.

Happy now?
Its uneducated because I should have said "But that one time way back when they did okay procuring the Garand and the 1911"?

Last I checked none of the guys involved in either process are still alive. Irrelevant.
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:51   #118
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Right now I'm the S-3 at an Infantry battalion. Not exactly as qualified as retirees from not-infantry and civilians to comment if I have a dissenting opinion though, apparently.
Right now, what you should do is calm down, and re-group your thoughts. These boys are eating you for lunch.

Your service to our country is appreciated.

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Old 05-26-2012, 18:52   #119
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You're in Independence MO so I made a pretty solid guess based on good evidence you're a civilian. I was probably right too.
Yea, cause whiteman AFB is so far away right? But if you were right, would it make a bit of difference? Not really

Last edited by themighty9mm; 05-26-2012 at 18:58..
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:57   #120
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b) We know a guy who claims to be in the services
I should probably scan a copy of my CAC card, my DD-1 and a memo from my commander that my paperwork so you'll be satisfied. I'm sure if I wanted to cosign on your opinion that the M9 is wunderpar you'd cosign on me being a five star. Issue a dissenting opinion, you're a 15 year old Army cook who plays World of Warcraft.
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Old 05-26-2012, 18:59   #121
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Yea, cause whiteman AFB is so far away right? But if you were right, would it make a bit of difference? Not really
Unless you are a combat controller or MP you're not shooting a lot of 9mm ammo.

And yes, it would make a difference. If you were a civilian, I'd value your opinion on whatever your profession was. If you were in the AF as you're insinuating, I'd value your opinion on whatever you do there.
Neither however give you any insight on the M9 in Military Service past what you hear on the History Channel.

Last edited by Check my Gat; 05-26-2012 at 19:05..
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Old 05-26-2012, 19:07   #122
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Unless you are a combat controller or MP you're not shooting a lot of 9mm ammo.
Even the MP's dont shoot alot. I diddnt say what I do for a living. Its irrelevant.

If one was in a branch of the service and publicly claiming it though. Then you would be representing that branch of service, and should take appropriate action as to not make that branch look like a bunch of jerk offs. Just throwing that out there for ya.
Randomly calling people "little civies" reguardless of if thy are or not doesnt exactly make you seem profesional after your other claims. It kinda gives the impression that you quite literally just came home off the plane from GA. If infact your are at all in the service. Again though. One way or the other it is irrelevant
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Old 05-26-2012, 19:10   #123
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Thanks for talking the finer points of professionalism with me AF. My posts don't have my name, rank or US Army sewn to them though so I think we're good.
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Old 05-26-2012, 19:13   #124
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I should probably scan a copy of my CAC card, my DD-1 and a memo from my commander that my paperwork so you'll be satisfied. I'm sure if I wanted to cosign on your opinion that the M9 is wunderpar you'd cosign on me being a five star. Issue a dissenting opinion, you're a 15 year old Army cook who plays World of Warcraft.
And I could scan you a copy of my dd 214. Again though its irrelevant. I dont care one bit who you are or what you do. Does not change the issue at hand even in the slightest. I never said anythig about you playing world of warcraft. I just assume by how you act on the internet, that you are a line cook... "I bet I'm right" Similar to how you did me? It's cute aint it? Reguardless of what either one of us thinks the other does... It's irrelevant.

Now that we have had our little pissing match, I beleive the real issue at hand was why does one think the Department of Defence chose a sidearm with a hammer? I beleive at the time the specs were written its what, whoever, knew worked. Maybe a seconed trigger pull is a bonus in some cases such as when you are at touching distance and would not have time to do a tap rack and pull. It is also known for the longest time military training is many years behind the curb. Though in recent years it seems they are catching up.

Last edited by themighty9mm; 05-26-2012 at 19:21..
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Old 05-26-2012, 19:16   #125
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Thanks for talking the finer points of professionalism with me AF. My posts don't have my name, rank or US Army sewn to them though so I think we're good.
I diddnt say I was AF. You assumed it. Like you assumed I was a "little civvy". And your posts shouldnt have to have any of that. If you are claiming it, and you have a screen name at all. If you have any integrity at all. Act the part

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