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Old 08-25-2014, 17:44   #1
Glocksanity
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Prescription Drug Deaths Fall...

http://news.yahoo.com/prescription-p...202837041.html

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In states with a medical marijuana law, overdose deaths from opioids like morphine, oxycodone and heroin decreased by an average of 20 percent after one year, 25 percent by two years and up to 33 percent by years five and six compared to what would have been expected, according to results in JAMA Internal Medicine.
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Old 08-25-2014, 17:56   #2
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Now that's interesting.
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Old 08-25-2014, 18:02   #3
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I find that exactly as surprising as crime falling when ccw rises.
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Old 08-25-2014, 18:15   #4
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TBO will be very disappointed in this study.
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Old 08-25-2014, 18:21   #5
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I was surprised by the magnitude of the drop.

Or maybe the economy is really rotten and they can't afford enough dope to kill themselves.
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Old 08-25-2014, 18:32   #6
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Hmm..

Deaths from prescription drugs are falling around my state, too. Yet, we have no medical marijuana law here. Could be that pills are too expensive for most people these days, and most have turned to heroin.

Of course, heroin OD's are skyrocketing - but, that doesn't fit the narrative here. Anyone want to take bets on the street price of prescription narcotics going through the roof in other states, as well - and that the medical marijuana laws are simply a coincidence?

Someone didn't learn that correlation does NOT equal correlation before posting an article, did he?

For the record, I also have the same problem with the whole "more guns = less crime" nonsense*. Kentucky has some of the BEST gun laws in the nation. I've covered them ad nauseum in other posts, and will not do so again; let's just say that Texans would die to have our laws here.

Yet, violent crime is rampant, and people are killing each other quite often here. That can't be possible, because civilian ownership and carrying of firearms means crooks will be scared to do bad things, right?

Sure. If that makes you feel better, then believe it. I've also written here in GT about how reality works in the criminal world and how little the bad guys are afraid of a gun. They are predators, and predators are wary - not frightened.

Anyway, I digress from the point of the thread. A "study" such as this is likely geared to reinforce a stoner's point of view. I'm much more inclined to believe that the dramatic increase (and regulation thereof, in some states - mine included) in cost that prescription meds have seen on the street level is responsible for the lower death rate. After all, if you can't afford them (even from street dealers), then how can you OD on them?

Heroin, on the other hand, is still currently affordable, and deaths are WAY up. What are the figures for heroin OD's and deaths in those same states? (Because if you're abusing pills, weed just won't get you the high you need - only heroin will...but you experts knew that already and weren't pushing an agenda).
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Old 08-25-2014, 18:49   #7
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Delete.
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Old 08-25-2014, 19:20   #8
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Old 08-25-2014, 19:22   #9
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Originally Posted by wprebeck View Post
hmm..

Deaths from prescription drugs are falling around my state, too. Yet, we have no medical marijuana law here. Could be that pills are too expensive for most people these days, and most have turned to heroin.

Of course, heroin od's are skyrocketing - but, that doesn't fit the narrative here. Anyone want to take bets on the street price of prescription narcotics going through the roof in other states, as well - and that the medical marijuana laws are simply a coincidence?

Someone didn't learn that correlation does not equal correlation before posting an article, did he?

For the record, i also have the same problem with the whole "more guns = less crime" nonsense*. Kentucky has some of the best gun laws in the nation. I've covered them ad nauseum in other posts, and will not do so again; let's just say that texans would die to have our laws here.

Yet, violent crime is rampant, and people are killing each other quite often here. That can't be possible, because civilian ownership and carrying of firearms means crooks will be scared to do bad things, right?

Sure. If that makes you feel better, then believe it. I've also written here in gt about how reality works in the criminal world and how little the bad guys are afraid of a gun. They are predators, and predators are wary - not frightened.

Anyway, i digress from the point of the thread. A "study" such as this is likely geared to reinforce a stoner's point of view. I'm much more inclined to believe that the dramatic increase (and regulation thereof, in some states - mine included) in cost that prescription meds have seen on the street level is responsible for the lower death rate. After all, if you can't afford them (even from street dealers), then how can you od on them?

Heroin, on the other hand, is still currently affordable, and deaths are way up. What are the figures for heroin od's and deaths in those same states? (because if you're abusing pills, weed just won't get you the high you need - only heroin will...but you experts knew that already and weren't pushing an agenda).
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Old 08-25-2014, 20:19   #10
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Originally Posted by wprebeck View Post
Hmm..

Deaths from prescription drugs are falling around my state, too. Yet, we have no medical marijuana law here. Could be that pills are too expensive for most people these days, and most have turned to heroin.
The deaths to the prescription drugs are falling because the docs aren't handing them out like candy anymore.

I guess if someone wants to get their kicks they just have to try something else.
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Old 08-25-2014, 20:22   #11
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I'd wager it's a combination of many variables.
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Old 08-25-2014, 20:25   #12
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TBO will be very disappointed in this study.
Only if he has his hat on. HH
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Old 08-25-2014, 20:39   #13
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Originally Posted by wprebeck View Post
Hmm..

Deaths from prescription drugs are falling around my state, too. Yet, we have no medical marijuana law here. Could be that pills are too expensive for most people these days, and most have turned to heroin.

Of course, heroin OD's are skyrocketing - but, that doesn't fit the narrative here. Anyone want to take bets on the street price of prescription narcotics going through the roof in other states, as well - and that the medical marijuana laws are simply a coincidence?

Someone didn't learn that correlation does NOT equal correlation before posting an article, did he?

For the record, I also have the same problem with the whole "more guns = less crime" nonsense*. Kentucky has some of the BEST gun laws in the nation. I've covered them ad nauseum in other posts, and will not do so again; let's just say that Texans would die to have our laws here.

Yet, violent crime is rampant, and people are killing each other quite often here. That can't be possible, because civilian ownership and carrying of firearms means crooks will be scared to do bad things, right?

Sure. If that makes you feel better, then believe it. I've also written here in GT about how reality works in the criminal world and how little the bad guys are afraid of a gun. They are predators, and predators are wary - not frightened.

Anyway, I digress from the point of the thread. A "study" such as this is likely geared to reinforce a stoner's point of view. I'm much more inclined to believe that the dramatic increase (and regulation thereof, in some states - mine included) in cost that prescription meds have seen on the street level is responsible for the lower death rate. After all, if you can't afford them (even from street dealers), then how can you OD on them?

Heroin, on the other hand, is still currently affordable, and deaths are WAY up. What are the figures for heroin OD's and deaths in those same states? (Because if you're abusing pills, weed just won't get you the high you need - only heroin will...but you experts knew that already and weren't pushing an agenda).
I think that is a huge part of it. The Pillbilly Highway has been closed, for the most part, and black tar heroin is killing people instead. I don't doubt that weed use in lieu of pills may account for some but in my experience, the pill heads aren't the pot heads.

Last edited by Dave514; 08-25-2014 at 20:44..
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Old 08-25-2014, 20:42   #14
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Doctors are making it a lot tougher to get pain meds than just a few years ago. They are more worried about malingerers than they are people that are actually in pain! I recently had 2 surgeries in 4 days and have been in a ton of pain, and they wrote me 10 hydrocodone pills for the whole thing. I have missed nearly 2 weeks of work in pain and they make you feel like a bum for needing pain meds at that office. I have heard and read where it's a similar thing nationwide. Therefore Heroin is making a comeback. However, I think that it's comeback is just in the infantcy and will get much much worse over time now that Hydrocodone is going to be a schedule 2.
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Old 08-25-2014, 20:51   #15
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I think that is a huge part of it. The Pillbilly Highway has been closed, for the most part, and black tar heroine is killing people instead. I don't doubt that weed use in lieu of pills may account for some but in my experience, the pill heads aren't the pot heads.
People addicted to pills simply cannot use marijuana as a substitute. One could outsmoke Tommy Chong in his prime, and still not get the same "high" as an opiate will provide.

Part of the reason that pills are increasing in price here in Kentucky likely has its roots in something most of you won't like...the legislature actually acted a year or so ago, and tightened some reporting requirements, from what I understand. It has to do with KASPAR and the like. I'm not a doc, nor do I work narcotics, so I'm not completely up on the bill that was passed, but here's a summary:

http://www.frostbrowntodd.com/resources-1579.html

It appears the measures went into effect in July of 2013. While I know (hell, I said it earlier) that correlation does not equal causation, I'm of the firm opinion that there is a definite link between making pills harder to get, and the deaths from pill abuse going down.

I know for a fact that the rise of heroin in Kentucky is a direct result of pills becoming too expensive for street users. That little data set comes directly from the people who buy and sell both pills and heroin. Not a week goes by where I don't return someone to jail for testing positive for opiates, or catch them with a needle, or something else related to opiate abuse.

Again, just to reiterate and completely knock the OP's drive-by post outta the water:

Marijuana does not provide the same affects that opiates do, and abusers of opiates will not - physically - be able to substitute marijuana for their opiate use. Marijuana is still used for recreational purposes, but to be honest - I see more opiate users than all the others combined. We test for benzos, meth, THC, cocaine, and opiates. The latter probably has double the number of the other four COMBINED.

(Anecdotal evidence, at best - if you want a study, give me some funding, and I'll happily provide you with one)
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Old 08-25-2014, 20:53   #16
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http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...se_deaths.html

Drug addicts can no longer easily obtain prescription medication short of stealing it from others, there are hardly any "pill mills" around anymore.

Most have switched to heroin. The heroin epidemic is absolutely astounding.

Common sense would dictate that once the supply dwindles, deaths would decrease. However we have no shortage of heroin ODs right now.

I'll say it here and I've said it before, it's laughable to a lot of you guys but I sure hope you never have a child, grandchild, or other relative hooked on it. Maybe then it wouldn't be so humorous.
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Old 08-25-2014, 21:03   #17
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OC -

Bad up there for you, too? Kinda figured, but then, sometimes stuff like this is regional.


On a related note - getting stuck with a needle is one of my biggest fears. I don't even want to think about that happening, nor what my reaction would be. "I" signed up for this job - not my wife or kids, and bringing home HIV/AIDS or hepatitis is a big fear of mine.
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Old 08-25-2014, 21:14   #18
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It's terrible.

Last night we searched a car and there were uncapped needles from the front to the back. Thirty six total if I remember correctly. Five occupants, two were juvies and all were addicts. One was pregnant and was nodding off the whole time.


Last month we found one of our resident dopers dead with a needle in her arm. Her four year old was crawling around her body. Our EMS saves one or two daily with narcan. You can say its a little bad here. Even worse now that the DRC isn't intaking low level drug offenders as there is no room to house them anymore. Same with out county jails.
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Old 08-25-2014, 21:20   #19
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Narcan.....there's some talk being bandied about that would allow LE to administer it on scene. I'm sure that, like ours, your EMS has protocols that mandate LE ensure a safe scene prior to them treating patients. I'm fairly sure that extends to OD's here, too.

There's not a day that goes by that at least one of our officers violates someone for opiate use, I'd guess. We work fairly closely with other local LE, as we have unfettered access to homes of people on house arrest. Seems we're a great tool to get into a house, being that they've waived consent already, in writing.

Anyway, I've been on several home checks that turned into heroin parties after K9 got done looking. Go figure. You'll have to PM me one of these days - see how close you are to me.
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Old 08-25-2014, 22:14   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wprebeck View Post

Part of the reason that pills are increasing in price here in Kentucky likely has its roots in something most of you won't like...the legislature actually acted a year or so ago, and tightened some reporting requirements, from what I understand. It has to do with KASPAR and the like. I'm not a doc, nor do I work narcotics, so I'm not completely up on the bill that was passed, but here's a summary:

http://www.frostbrowntodd.com/resources-1579.html



I know for a fact that the rise of heroin in Kentucky is a direct result of pills becoming too expensive for street users. That little data set comes directly from the people who buy and sell both pills and heroin.
Interesting, because I've been told right here on GT by some uber experienced professionals that government prohibition doesn't make the price rise.
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