[windplex]

my thanks to those who discussed their experience with criminals and how we cannot imagine how they think. i believe it.

we had a fellow here gassing up. his job was to work with troubled teens in the rough neighborhood where he gassed his car in broad daylight.

when "asked" for his wallet and truck keys he thought (based on his experience with bad kids) that he could discuss this with them.

turns out it was not up for discussion. they shot him dead right then and there. he pulled himself along the pavement on his belly to get to the store (at the gas station) he died feet from the door.

clearly this fellow thought he had some insights and likely did but still not enough to avoid death.

I (most of us) simply have no idea about these bad people- what motivates them; what fears they have or lack; why they do what they do...

a friends boy was shot dead for not having enough to give the robbers. they went directly home and played video games as if nothing happened and likely for them nothing that mattered did happen.

[MARKDANIEL]

Yes the water tower is still very erect and belive it or not thats where the hookers hang out.

[MARKDANIEL]

Originally Posted by RussP

Another unknown variable. Does the parking facility there in the 300 block of Pearl where this happened have any reputation?

This is very close to the parking structure http://www.dejavu.com/vu/project/deja-vu-ypsilanti/ The area is bad durring the day worse at night. That parking lot is not that close to Easterns main campus it is close to a Building they teach busineess classes in.

[jdavionic]

Originally Posted by windplex

my thanks to those who discussed their experience with criminals and how we cannot imagine how they think. i believe it.

Yes, I had the misfortune of enduring an early exposure to an environment that fortunately many others don't ever see...including many cops. I could make some politically incorrect remarks on how that happened, but I suspect it would be quite a derailment.

Point being, while I can appreciate that some LEOs often see things on a daily basis that many don't experience in a lifetime, that's not always the case. And I could certainly provide examples.

What I'm seeing is a tendency to assert that since you cannot properly (as defined by someone with that LE experience) assess the risk of OC'ing without walking in their shoes, you should not OC because you can get hurt or killed. Leave that to the military or LE.

One could carry that argument much further. 'Unless you've been in the military or LE and have been in an armed confrontation, you should not carry...period.' Obviously no one has said that, just extending the logic. I would argue "isn't that where personal responsibility comes in?"

Isn't this where a person accepts the responsibility of being armed whether OC or CC? Their level of risk is dependent on their own environment, and their own efforts in getting the equipment that is best suited for their needs, getting the right training that is best for them, and practicing. I see where not having exposure to a criminal environment could add risk (depending upon your specifics). But I just don't see it as "the" major litmus test for determining whether OC should be allowed to extend beyond the military and LE.

[series1811]

Originally Posted by jdavionic

But I just don't see it as "the" major litmus test for determining whether OC should be allowed to extend beyond the military and LE.

I think you have me wrong at least. I absolutely believe that the second amendment gives everyone the right to open carry (with a few common sense exceptions, like crazy people).

But, I also think that gay people have a right to live together and do anything they want to each other, subject to the same codes of decency we apply to everybody (no boffing in public in front of kids, for instance).

But, ask me if I think either one of those is a good lifestyle choice, and I will say no.

[jdavionic]

Originally Posted by series1811

I think you have me wrong at least. I absolutely believe that the second amendment gives everyone the right to open carry (with a few common sense exceptions, like crazy people).

But, I also think that gay people have a right to live together and do anything they want to each other, subject to the same codes of decency we apply to everybody (no boffing in public in front of kids, for instance).

But, ask me if I think either one of those is a good lifestyle choice, and I will say no.

You're right...I did misinterpret your earlier response. And thank you for the clarification.

[RussP]

Has anyone heard updates on this situation?

[PAGunner]

Originally Posted by TBO

I suppose you could take the cash out of you wallet and tuck it partly in/out of your back pocket too.

Or you could park your car with the window down and keys in the ignition. Or, park the same and put your keys above the visor (above the open window).

How about someone who OCs with a level 3 retention holster or at a minimum something like a 5.11 thumb drive holster with chop block (level 2 I believe), who's perhaps not only mentally prepared for someone to attempt to take the firearm, he's trained for it. How about if a person who had the "don't F' with me look" was OCing, someone whom a criminal would last pick as a target?

I believe in people's right to OC, but it should be done responsibly, that's what I'm getting at, it certainly isn't for everyone, but there are some who can and do pull it off well.