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Old 04-18-2012, 15:11   #26
Just_plinking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMonkey View Post
1. If you're a passenger, don't touch the radio.

2. If it ain't your car, don't lean on it.

3. If it ain't your gun, don't $%^& with it.
Ditto, It's amazing how little respect some people have for other people's cars. I don't care if you set coffee mug's on your own car, DO NOT set things on my car.

edit: And messing with people's guns w/o permission seems similarly rude to me, sorry op

Last edited by Just_plinking; 04-18-2012 at 15:14..
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Old 04-18-2012, 19:56   #27
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Even better, next time he wants to run his mouth, the 1911 is it's own tool kit. Detail strip it down to the safety plungers and hammer strut pin. You can usually accomplish it while they're doin a #2. I plan to do it to my buddy, next time I'm around his colt defender unsupervised. He likes to trash talk.

Only hard part is getting the grips off. I'd leave them alone.
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Old 04-18-2012, 20:19   #28
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Originally Posted by mikeg1005 View Post
Why don't you stop being a jackass and help your friend out?
If you think about it, the OP really is helping his friend out.
How long does it normally take new or novice shooters to truly understand their firearms?
As long as he doesnt go home while his friends gun is in parts, he really is helping him.
It's along the lines of if you teach a man to fish...
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Old 04-18-2012, 21:16   #29
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Originally Posted by gunman_23 View Post
If you think about it, the OP really is helping his friend out.
How long does it normally take new or novice shooters to truly understand their firearms?
As long as he doesnt go home while his friends gun is in parts, he really is helping him.
It's along the lines of if you teach a man to fish...
It's more along the lines of..."If you teach a man how to fish..first show him how to not to 'idiot scratch' his 1911..."
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Old 04-19-2012, 17:51   #30
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It may not be hard, but calling it one of the simplest guns in the world is just a blatant lie. Every single one of the modern combat guns(Glock, Sig, CZ, HK, M&P, Steyr, XD, etc) is easier to assemble/disassemble. As far as handguns go it has more part than most others. It usually has a tighter overall fit as well. Tighter pieces are generally harder to get back in place.
I am a Sig, S&W , glock H&K and colt armorer , the Colt is by far the easiest, ever try and get the sear in a Sig 229, or the trigger and bar in a 220?
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Old 04-19-2012, 19:58   #31
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Back in the late 70's, one of our shooters was signing his favorite Gold Cup out of the gun room for a local match. He laid it on my desk and went to the gun board to sign it out to himself. While his back was turned, I asked if I could handle it. Before he could turn around, I swept a desk stapler off onto the floor where it landed with a clattering sound about what you'd expect a 1911 to make if it fell.

The look on his face when he finally got enough composure to turn around was priceless...
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Old 04-19-2012, 21:27   #32
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I am a Sig, S&W , glock H&K and colt armorer , the Colt is by far the easiest, ever try and get the sear in a Sig 229, or the trigger and bar in a 220?
The 1911 has basically 5 parts in it's fire control set up. Trigger, Disconnector, Sear, Hammer(w/strut but that counts as one IMHO) and Main Spring Housing(which I also count as one even though technically it's 5 but it IS one Unit) If that's not simple I don't know what is.
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Old 04-20-2012, 00:40   #33
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Originally Posted by GoBow View Post
Back in the late 70's, one of our shooters was signing his favorite Gold Cup out of the gun room for a local match. He laid it on my desk and went to the gun board to sign it out to himself. While his back was turned, I asked if I could handle it. Before he could turn around, I swept a desk stapler off onto the floor where it landed with a clattering sound about what you'd expect a 1911 to make if it fell.

The look on his face when he finally got enough composure to turn around was priceless...
That's great.
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:14   #34
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On the Wolff web site they always recommend a couple extra pound recoil spring to help stop slide to frame batter.
A myth that was started and perpetrated by people who sell springs and shock buffs.

The "recoil" spring's purpose is returning the slide...not buffering slide to frame impact. That it does do that is incidental.

Quick story:

A guy walks into the gun shop and asks about a 22 pound spring for his LW Commander. When asked why so heavy, he gave the standard "frame battering" answer. He didn't believe the explanation, so I invited him to the local range where he was a member to see a demonstration in which I'd fire a LW Commander without a spring. He reckoned that it would destroy the frame in 50 rounds or less.

On the big day, I fired 49 rounds without a spring. No damage. 49 more. Still no damage. When a third time produced no damage, he handed me a magazine full of Remington 185-grain +P and guaranteed that would do the trick. When it didn't, he mumbled something about my having set up my pistol in a special way and left.

Note:

Anyone who would like to try this...use a full-length guide rod and plug. The stub-type rod will get all cattywampus and damage the gun. The FLGR and plug keeps everything tracking straight. I installed one in the Commander for the demo.
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:52   #35
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Originally Posted by ronin.45 View Post
It may not be hard, but calling it one of the simplest guns in the world is just a blatant lie. Every single one of the modern combat guns(Glock, Sig, CZ, HK, M&P, Steyr, XD, etc) is easier to assemble/disassemble. As far as handguns go it has more part than most others. It usually has a tighter overall fit as well. Tighter pieces are generally harder to get back in place.
Right, Glock is the clear winner here.
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:53   #36
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A myth that was started and perpetrated by people who sell springs and shock buffs.

The "recoil" spring's purpose is returning the slide...not buffering slide to frame impact. That it does do that is incidental.
+1

The problem with lighter springs is proper function of feeding the next round... not how hard it hits the frame. The slide still hits the frame, regardless how heavy of a spring you use... that is how the gun is designed to stop the slide.

Another proof that it doesn't destroy the gun is the amount of guys that shoot 100,000s of rounds through their guns with lightened springs.

Mike.

Last edited by mikeg1005; 04-20-2012 at 08:55..
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:38   #37
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Doesn't the slide hit the guide rod, not the frame? I mean the guide rod is up against the barrel lugs and the lower part of the slide hits the guide rod, right.
One thing the recoil spring does do it control slide velociety and how far you brass will fly. Personally I don't like to have to look over a one mile radius for brass,LOL. Rather have a bit heavier spring and keep my brass close where I can hopefully find it.
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:18   #38
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The slide hits the guide rod, which sits on the part of the frame in front of the barrel lugs... It doesn't contract the actual barrel lugs... so the guide rod is simply the middle piece, the force is still transfered into the frame.

Yes its slows down the velocity slightly, but not enough to make any significant difference to how hard it actually hits. Try it sometime, put a spent case in the chamber then manaully cycle the slide, the difference between ejecting the brass 4 feet and 8 feet isn't much more force.

You do bring up a point about flying brass... Luckily I shoot indoors at my club where I can sweep it all up, and outdoor matches = brass whoring afterwards.

MIke.

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Old 04-20-2012, 10:22   #39
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Taking apart someones new 1911 as a prank, could be unhealthy if done to the wrong person.

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Old 04-20-2012, 11:03   #40
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I just hope this guy's buddy doesn't buy a new car any time soon. That'd be awful to come outside to see your new car in parts and pieces all over the driveway.
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Last edited by TN.Frank; 04-20-2012 at 11:04..
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:17   #41
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One thing the recoil spring does do it control slide velociety and how far you brass will fly. Personally I don't like to have to look over a one mile radius for brass,LOL. Rather have a bit heavier spring and keep my brass close where I can hopefully find it
Another myth. My main beaters...a pair of Colt 1991A1s...that are approaching 400,000 rounds collectively...have never seen a spring heavier than 16 pounds, and only that heavy because I shoot a lot of ammo reloaded with my home cast bullets, and they start to get a little sluggish returning to battery about the 500 round mark. Most of the time, they've been shot with 14 pound springs and no shock buffs. My ammo is all hardball equivalent or a bit stiffer.

Aside from the bluing being worn off the impact abutment, there's no frame peening or battering...and all my brass lands slightly behind and about 5 feet away from my right foot in about a 4-foot circle.

Both frames cracked at the junction of the rails and the impact abutment about 150,000 rounds ago. Nature of the beast when you've got a thin cross-section and a sharp corner. Stress risers and all. Those cracks are self-limiting and aren't detrimental to the gun's function.

Until the "Frame Battering" scare of the early 80s, the only springs available without going to Colt or Springfield were GI surplus springs...and those would hit about 14 pounds in full compression, and around 13.75 pounds with the slide at full travel. Colt's GM springs were about the same, and Commander springs might've made 16.5 pounds...but I wouldn't bet on it. Most of the new Commander springs that I tested ran to 15.5-16 pounds at full slide travel.

Why heavier springs in the Commanders? Reliable return to battery. The less massive slides needed more speed and momentum going forward. Coupled with less slide travel and less mass, the spring had to accelerate it to a velocity that would match the 5-inch gun's momentum.

The Commander slide actually hits the impact abutment with less damaging force than the GM. Mass and momentum are the damaging factors...not energy. With equal springs, the Commander's momentum is less than the Government Model's assuming equal ammunition.
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Old 04-20-2012, 17:32   #42
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GLocks, Colts, S&W's . . . they are not that hard to strip down and reassemble. The one single handgun that I absolutely HATE to reassemble is my Ruger .22 pistol. Having to have that one single piece hanging at just the right angle to get the lever in the grip back in is guaranteed to raise my blood pressure and make my language unfit for prime-time!
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Old 04-20-2012, 20:56   #43
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I can do a Ruger Mk II blindfolded, but old guys with arthritis (like me) really hate the 1911 with the recoil plug you have to fight in.

I just put in the FLGR with captive take down hole: makes life so easy.

http://www.rushusa.com/html/products...uide-rods.html

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5.0" Length, steel
Radiused Head is pre-beveled for barrel link clearance. Full thru takedown hole.

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Old 04-20-2012, 21:30   #44
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Yes, but we're talking Detail Strip. Takes just a few seconds longer I'd think.
That's not what the original post says
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:23   #45
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I just wanna say ThanK YOU SIR to 1911Tuner! So much knowledge! I so so enjoy reading posts by people who know more than anybody else about something. I go to a mechanic's forum and there is a guy there who knows tires. HE KNOWS TIRES! EVERYTHANG ABOUT THEM! I do say this 1911Tuner guy is of that caliber and I enjoy the heck outta his posts!

A 400,000 round beater! That's just awesome!
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:38   #46
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That's not what the original post says
So we're only talking Field Strip, oh brother, he does need to sit his buddy down and help him out then. If you can't Field Strip a 1911 then how the heck do you expect to be able to even clean it properly.
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:26   #47
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I have yet attempted to detail strip a 1911. The whole thing seems as frustrating as trying to put the 10/22 safety back in the trigger housing.
Everything seems to be difficult until you do it.
It usually requires some nerve to do it the first time but soon it is not difficult at all.
Detail stripping a 1911 is not difficult once you have done it a few times.
I think it is a good way to understand how the gun works and what each part does in relation to the other parts.
I have a philosophy that I go by.
If someone put it together, I can take it apart.
If someone took it apart, I can put it back together.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:40   #48
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Thanks, Camu...but I've become something of a pariah for pointing to the obvious and spoiling the Kool Aid...and the recoil spring question has been one of the most hotly debated subjects.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:20   #49
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Thanks, Camu...but I've become something of a pariah for pointing to the obvious and spoiling the Kool Aid...and the recoil spring question has been one of the most hotly debated subjects.
No! NO! I like it! A few times I have drank koolaid and didn't even know I was drinking the brew! I've gotten good at reading forums over the years and I know when somebody knows what they are talking about. After I read a few posts I see the mind of that person come through. I like people that learn from trial and error and booksmarts. Those are the best kinds of posters. I feel like we should pay you cash money for your time! We don't do that so I'll just throw out an internet bag rub...

I'm actually gonna go through and read your older posts just for fun. There is a guy on another forum that talks about tires like you do 1911's. I went back and read his older posts. I know a big ton about tires now. Way more than I will ever need to know just driving back and forth to work again on tires. My mind is kinda like a sponge though. I suck up knowledge and then I become the pariah also when I spout the truth during gun conversations at work and at the range. I like it though. I just know those pitchforks and torches go home and get on the internets to prove me wrong and find out that I am right.

They usually won't admit it. That's fine. I like being right. Even when it hurts pride. It saves money and fingers and time...
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:55   #50
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