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Old 04-16-2012, 08:41   #21
scccdoc
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Originally Posted by Ski2me View Post
OK I've been back and forth on reloading. Now I'd like to hear from those who are experienced reloaders. Is reloading really a money saver? I can buy 40 s&w Federal 100pks for my G22 for less than 28.00 bucks. How much can a person reload 100 rounds for?

Where is the best place to buy supplies?

I have a 9mm conversion barrel that won't shoot re-manufactured ammo very well. I there any particular resizing die that I should go with?
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If you shoot a lot,then reload.By in bulk,scavenge brass, but most importantly,have fun.If it's not enjoyable or you don't like working with your hands,don't do it.My 40's cost about 7 - 7.50 per 50 rds.GLTY......................... DOC
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:02   #22
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Where is the best place to buy supplies?

I have a 9mm conversion barrel that won't shoot re-manufactured ammo very well. I there any particular resizing die that I should go with?
There is a supplier sticky at the top of the forum. Precision Delta for jacketed bullets (just skip the plated bullets, they cost too much) and I buy S&S lead bullets from Dillon but there are a lot of places that sell them.

Powder and primers from Powder Valley in 10k lots for the primers and 8# kegs for powder. Seriously! Once you find a load you like, buying in 1# cans is a waste of money. If you buy online, you have to pay a $25 hazmat fee for shipping so you need to amortize it over a sufficient quantity to make it worthwhile.

If your barrel was manufactured with a proper chamber (which might exclude Lone Wolf by some reports), there is just no reason that reloads won't work. Sure, the OAL will have to be correct if the round is to run up the feed ramp and certain bullet styles are more problematic than others. Semi wadcutters may not feed well in all guns but the plain round nose FMJ should work perfectly in most guns and the flat nose is more typical for .40 S&W.

These dies aren't just some bashed together piece of junk. They are precision tools that do precision work. People have their preferences but I have never had a problem with RCBS, Dillon or Redding. I do have a Lee resizing die in 9mm to resize Glock empties. I don't know that it is necessary but I do know it is sufficient. My reloaded 9mm run perfectly in an XD9.

Yes, you can save money. In my case, it just leads to more shooting. With 4 people shooting out of my ammo can, it can run empty pretty quick. For me, pistol reloading is about quantity and quantity is about speed.

Rifle reloading is about quality. You simply can't buy factory ammo that shoots one-hole groups. As the distance increases, the repeatability of factory ammo just isn't adequate. Rifle ammo is tuned to the individual gun.

In a perfect world, the equipment would pay for itself in a short time. Less expensive equipment pays for itself faster. But then, you are stuck with less expensive equipment. There are a lot of choices in equipment but Dillon is pretty much top-of-the-line. For a pistol caliber, the Square Deal is pretty fast. The Dillon 550 is the workhorse of reloading but it is slow compared to the 650 with casefeeder. Is the 650 worth $1000? I think so. I save about $0.12 per round so by the time I shoot 8000 rounds, it is paid for. The bigger question is whether the incremental cost over the 550 is a good deal. That is harder to answer. The 650 is at least twice as fast as the 550 so while I will save just as much money using the 550, it takes twice as long to do it. I like the idea that reloading on a 650 is paying me about $100 per hour. Actually, I load my .45 ACP on a Dillon 1050 but that's more about ego than throughput. My 650 (for 9mm) is a great machine and is very nearly as fast as the 1050.

For any reasonable volume, single-stage presses are pretty much out of the question. A hundred rounds is a production quantity for a single-stage press and takes about 5 minutes on a 650.

And yes, machines tend to accumulate. It would have been much better to skip the Ponsness-Warren MetalMatic, the Dillon 450 (obsolete), a pair of 550s and an RCBS Green Machine and move straight into the 1050. I could have saved a lot of money. Moral to the story: buy enough machine the first time! Today I would head straight for the XL650 with casefeeder and be done with it.

So, how much are you going to shoot?

Richard
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:03   #23
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Where I live a box of cheaper 9mm ammo (WWB or equivilant) run about $16.08 ($14.99 plus tax) per box of 50. I can reload 50 rds for about $10.12 which means I save approx $6 per 50 rds. That $10.12 per box is based on free range brass, primer, powder & mid-priced Hornady bullets.

You're not buying components in bulk, or something.
I can reload a 115gr jacketed bullet for $12 or so per 100. A 147gr jacketed (my preferred weight) would be closer to $15-$16 per 100. That would be HALF PRICE of what you're quoting for factory.

  • 115gr FMJ (from Precision Delta) is 82.00 per 1000 which is $8.20 per 100
  • Primers - I buy them in bulk from Powder Valley and get them for $28 per 1000 which is $2.80 per 100
  • Powder figure maybe $1 per 100, if that.

That adds up to $12 per 100, only slightly more than what you're quoting for 50 rounds.

Yeah.... you're doing something wrong.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:16   #24
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But in order to save your $17.40 you have to spend somewhere from $300 to $1000 on equipment. Most good quality reloading equipment will last a life time but you still have to shell out for it up front.
And don't take a short term view of this investment in equipment. Got kids? Got grandkids? These machines will last for generations.

If you're going to leave all your stuff to your grandkid, at least be sure it's high end stuff. Every time they pull the handle, they'll be thinking about you!

Richard
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:37   #25
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  • Quote:
    • 115gr FMJ (from Precision Delta) is 82.00 per 1000 which is $8.20 per 100
    • Primers - I buy them in bulk from Powder Valley and get them for $28 per 1000 which is $2.80 per 100
    • Powder figure maybe $1 per 100, if that.
I know that I spent more for the Hornadys 115gr FMJ but at the time I just wanted to get started and ordered only 500 rds along with my reloading equipment order. Ordered everything from one source and did not buy large or bulk quantity of anything.

The cost per box that is shown is based on bullets that were somewhat higher priced and not the lowest price that 9mm's can be reloaded for.

In the future I will order a larger quantity and probably a less expensive but quallity bullet. Costs are my current and true costs at this time, which will in all probability decrease in the future.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:29   #26
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I know that I spent more for the Hornadys 115gr FMJ but at the time I just wanted to get started and ordered only 500 rds along with my reloading equipment order. Ordered everything from one source and did not buy large or bulk quantity of anything.

The cost per box that is shown is based on bullets that were somewhat higher priced and not the lowest price that 9mm's can be reloaded for.

In the future I will order a larger quantity and probably a less expensive but quallity bullet. Costs are my current and true costs at this time, which will in all probability decrease in the future.
Yep, understood fully.

Just didn't want folks to think the cost you were quoting there as the type of costs/savings that can be achieved.

I've said this several times before... unfortunately, to get the *best* (lowest) cost you have to have lots of funds available. Buying powder in the 8lb cannisters, primers by 10k if not 20k.. and bullets in as much quantity as you can.

For example, I'll buy a minimum of 10k primers along with 8lb of powder in one order from PV. When I can, I'll get 20k primers and some powder.

I'm also using Bear Creek moly coated bullets. They are a little smokier than jacketed bullets but not nearly as smoky as pure lead. I'm getting them for $71 per 1000 of the 147grainers.... a pretty good price indeed. PD wants $101 for 1000 of their jacketed, and Montana Gold is up to $110 per 1000 *if* you buy 3000.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:52   #27
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I'm also using Bear Creek moly coated bullets. They are a little smokier than jacketed bullets but not nearly as smoky as pure lead. I'm getting them for $71 per 1000 of the 147grainers.... a pretty good price indeed. PD wants $101 for 1000 of their jacketed, and Montana Gold is up to $110 per 1000 *if* you buy 3000.
Ron,

Where are you buying the Bear Creek bullets? I used to shoot a lot of these when my LGS carried them.

Richard
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Old 04-16-2012, 13:11   #28
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There is a supplier sticky at the top of the forum. Precision Delta for jacketed bullets (just skip the plated bullets, they cost too much) and I buy S&S lead bullets from Dillon but there are a lot of places that sell them.
Recently PD has increased their prices & some plated are now cheaper again, for now. Extreme from TJCon are $102/1000 for 165gr/40, $18 less than PD jacketed. Worth it, if you shoot a lot, sure. If you can't swing a useful bulk order, then go in w/ one or two other shooters & split up the HM & shipping. HM has gone up, $27/order now, so IMO, you need to order at least 10 units to get a decent price. So that would be 1K primers & 1# of powder = one unit. Order more, spread that further.
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Old 04-16-2012, 13:38   #29
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Haze Mat on bullets?????
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Old 04-16-2012, 13:39   #30
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Ron,

Where are you buying the Bear Creek bullets? I used to shoot a lot of these when my LGS carried them.

Richard

Richard,

He doesn't have a web site. You call the phone number, he takes your order and CC#... a few days later you got the bullets. I've ordered 15,000 - 20,000 or so over the last 6 months, I know guys who've been buying them for the last few years. Don't be concerned about not having a web site.

209.874.4322

I don't have a price list, but the cost of 9mm 147grainers is $35.50 per 500 ($71 per 1000) if I recall correctly. That includes shipping.

He gives a 5% discount for 10k bullets, 10$ for 25k.
Just something to keep in mind.

My last order was for 10k, so it was basically getting 500 free bullets. I'm down with that.
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Old 04-16-2012, 13:46   #31
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Ron,

Thanks for the info. The Bear Creek shop is only about 60 miles away so I'll try again. Last year some time I called but I never got a call back.

I really like the bullets, particularly the 200 gr LSWC. I could use a few thousand of those. I'm sitting on about 10,000 bullets so it will be later in the summer.

Richard
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Old 04-16-2012, 14:12   #32
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http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp
Read the stickies at the top of the page for supply's
I cast my own bullets so I'm out $23 a thousand on primers and $24 for a pound of powder to load 1000 rounds, and I still have powder left over.
Buy in bulk and you will save $
I have plenty brass and you can reload it many times so I don't even figure it in being most of it was free.
Been savin your brass, if not you can find once fired brass pretty cheap.

Welcome to the forum !
Bob
To get a TRUE cost be sure to add any tax and/or shipping costs to the prices for bullets, powder, etc. in the cost boxes in the estimator at http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp
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Old 04-16-2012, 14:14   #33
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No tax for out of state stuff. Usually the money you save on taxes pays for shipping (not haze mat of course).
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Old 04-16-2012, 14:27   #34
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Last time I checked I was about even. This is after about 3000 rounds. But....I can reload RIFLE rounds that are better than just about any rounds one can buy. They are more accurate. Pistol, I dunno. I don't shoot precision pistol like I shoot precision rifle. I do reload for my pistol also, of course.

Also, loading is a great experience. Teaches ballistics, mechanical engineering, chemistry and statistics and test engineering principles if you do it right. Would be great for any aspiring engineer or scientist, young or old!
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Old 04-16-2012, 14:37   #35
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No tax for out of state stuff. Usually the money you save on taxes pays for shipping (not haze mat of course).
Being somewhat of a newbie and because I wasn't ordering big quantities I bought powder and primers locally @ Cabela's to avoid the hefty HazMat fees, so I ended up paying tax but no HazMat.

The problem with buying at a local Gander Mountain or Cabela's (not online) is that in store stock inventory is somewhat limited in powder types. No problem with in store stock inventory of small pistol primers. Gander Mountain's in store inventory was way worse than Cabela's in store inventory across the board for all reloading supplies.
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Old 04-16-2012, 14:38   #36
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Haze Mat on bullets?????
No Steve, generic statment on reloading supplies. Put the cough syrup away.
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Old 04-16-2012, 14:40   #37
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To get a TRUE cost be sure to add any tax and/or shipping costs to the prices for bullets, powder, etc. in the cost boxes in the estimator at http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp
Prices quoted by most of us includes shipping & HM. Many bullet places shipping is included. As Steve notes, no sales tax out of state & that is factored into buying local. Here, it's 8%, that covers a lot of shipping @ flat rates.
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Old 04-16-2012, 14:46   #38
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Being somewhat of a newbie and because I wasn't ordering big quantities I bought powder and primers locally @ Cabela's to avoid the hefty HazMat fees, so I ended up paying tax but no HazMat.

The problem with buying at a local Gander Mountain or Cabela's (not online) is that in store stock inventory is somewhat limited in powder types. No problem with in store stock inventory of small pistol primers. Gander Mountain's in store inventory was way worse than Cabela's in store inventory across the board for all reloading supplies.

Suck it up, save some money. Buy in bulk. You will be glad you did.
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Old 04-16-2012, 14:56   #39
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Originally Posted by CaptainXL View Post
Being somewhat of a newbie and because I wasn't ordering big quantities I bought powder and primers locally @ Cabela's to avoid the hefty HazMat fees, so I ended up paying tax but no HazMat.

The problem with buying at a local Gander Mountain or Cabela's (not online) is that in store stock inventory is somewhat limited in powder types. No problem with in store stock inventory of small pistol primers. Gander Mountain's in store inventory was way worse than Cabela's in store inventory across the board for all reloading supplies.
The Gander mountain near me charges $3.99 per 100 for primers. that's $40 per 1000. Ridiculous.

I buy from Powder Valley and even with hazmat/shipping, get them for under $30.00. I had to buy a BUNCH to get them that way, but if you shoot alot, that's what you'll do.
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Old 04-16-2012, 16:02   #40
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Unless you go to Gander Mountain and the clerk scans the outside of the brick of large rifle primers and just charges you 3.99 for the brick . Happened to me once when I had to buy for loading up some hunting rounds real quick . I didn't know till I got the Credit card statement and almost complained about a false charge. Then I realized , Oops on them 900 free primers , well I have spent a LOT of money at that place over the years ....
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