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Old 04-24-2012, 17:29   #181
M&P Shooter
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Video shows nothing of the shooting. If you believe it took that many 45acp's to drop him I have a magical bridge to sell you that comes with 2 leprechaun
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Old 04-24-2012, 18:19   #182
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Everyone also seems to forget the mass amounts of cattle that were lined up and shot with various calibers.

The cows that died the fastest were shot with .45

That is why the 45 ACP was chose.

It sounds cruel, but that is cold hard facts.

The cows that were shot with 9mm had to be killed with a hammer.
And how long ago was this test? What kind of hollow point ammo was used? And how did the 40S&W do?
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Old 04-24-2012, 18:44   #183
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Originally Posted by 3000fps View Post
Everyone also seems to forget the mass amounts of cattle that were lined up and shot with various calibers.

The cows that died the fastest were shot with .45

That is why the 45 ACP was chose.

It sounds cruel, but that is cold hard facts.

The cows that were shot with 9mm had to be killed with a hammer.
I always carry a backup hammer, in an ankle holster. Just in case.
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Old 04-24-2012, 19:07   #184
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Originally Posted by Simplejack View Post
Cheaper cost and more rounds per clip
Clip? What planet are you from, here we call it a magazine.

I find the .40 S&W recoil impulse to be, for me, uncontrollable and dumped that caliber. I carry .45 ACP in a Glock 30SF. This is much more accurate for me.
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Old 04-24-2012, 19:37   #185
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I always carry a backup hammer, in an ankle holster. Just in case.
Yeah but I'll bet your back-up hammer is OUTDATED!!!
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Old 04-24-2012, 19:43   #186
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Originally Posted by 3000fps View Post
Everyone also seems to forget the mass amounts of cattle that were lined up and shot with various calibers.

The cows that died the fastest were shot with .45

That is why the 45 ACP was chose.

It sounds cruel, but that is cold hard facts.

The cows that were shot with 9mm had to be killed with a hammer.
They must not have shot any with the 10MM
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Old 04-24-2012, 19:56   #187
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Originally Posted by M&P Shooter View Post
Video shows nothing of the shooting. If you believe it took that many 45acp's to drop him I have a magical bridge to sell you that comes with 2 leprechaun
This is two of a dozen links on the 3 year old story.

http://www.blacknewsweekly.com/blknews12.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32478013.../#.T5dY3tmQkfg

We need to read the autopsy report for a technical picture of the GSWs.
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Old 04-24-2012, 20:02   #188
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Originally Posted by 3000fps View Post
Everyone also seems to forget the mass amounts of cattle that were lined up and shot with various calibers.

The cows that died the fastest were shot with .45

That is why the 45 ACP was chose.

It sounds cruel, but that is cold hard facts.

The cows that were shot with 9mm had to be killed with a hammer.
I think the reason everyone forgot about that test was because it was a hundred years ago with FMJ ammo.

IIRC, St. Paul's police switched from .40 S&W to 9mm. They said that in their experience, good hits counted more than the bigger caliber, and they could afford to train to get good hits more often with 9mm than with .40.
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Old 04-24-2012, 20:13   #189
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Originally Posted by SamRudolph View Post
I think the reason everyone forgot about that test was because it was a hundred years ago with FMJ ammo.

IIRC, St. Paul's police switched from .40 S&W to 9mm. They said that in their experience, good hits counted more than the bigger caliber, and they could afford to train to get good hits more often with 9mm than with .40.
Yet 9mm doesn't cost any less than 40SW.
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Old 04-24-2012, 20:20   #190
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I believe it is the cost of ammo. Most depts. have been forced to trim down the budget. The price of 9mm is much cheaper than 40S&W. Todays 9mm is much better than what was offered years ago. I have my own opinion on this ammo issue. Just check my signature. Regards to all at GT.
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Old 04-24-2012, 20:24   #191
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Originally Posted by captcurly View Post
I believe it is the cost of ammo. Most depts. have been forced to trim down the budget. The price of 9mm is much cheaper than 40S&W. Todays 9mm is much better than what was offered years ago. I have my own opinion on this ammo issue. Just check my signature. Regards to all at GT.
Since 9mm costs the same as 40SW, why do you say it is a cost issue?
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Old 04-24-2012, 21:01   #192
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This is two of a dozen links on the 3 year old story.

http://www.blacknewsweekly.com/blknews12.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32478013.../#.T5dY3tmQkfg

We need to read the autopsy report for a technical picture of the GSWs.
Sorry I don't buy it
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Old 04-24-2012, 21:45   #193
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Your body doesn't "run on adrenaline", it runs on blood. Blood that continued to be pumped by his heart which was not reached by the bullet, because it didn't penetrate as far as a modern bullet would. Face it, the guy was popped in the 10 ring, and lived on to kill because the bullet didn't go as far as it would if a better constructed bullet had been used. The funny thing is, had the same bullet been used at a higher velocity, it would have penetrated even less and things could have been worse. That same bullet at higher speed is the Winchester 115 +P+ that has great "street cred". Well here was a street, and that bullet was discredited.

You blame that on "tacitcs", but when the FBI increased it's tactical position by picking better ammo, you criticize that.

Your LACK OF KNOWLEDGE is beyond belief. The bullet in question was a 1st Gen. Winchester SILVERTIP. The Win. 115 gr. +p+ is NOT a SILVERTIP. The M.E. said the subject could not have been saved if they had an operating theater onsite!! It was a mortal wound!! Quit chokin' your gopher while watching "Private Ryan" as 1911's don't blow up tanks!!
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Old 04-24-2012, 22:27   #194
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The M.E. said the wound was mortal and that he was dead on his feet merely running on adrenaline & what little oxygen he had. Only a bullet to the brain or spine would have sped matters up. As a hunter you know this, Fred. Life often times does not play out like a movie & some people die hard.
Sure, w/o medical attention, the wound was fatal, but not enough damage to stop the fight. Punch a whole in the heart & double lungs, not many things can fight for long, not even that big buff in my avatar.
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Old 04-24-2012, 22:30   #195
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And how long ago was this test? What kind of hollow point ammo was used? And how did the 40S&W do?
The LaGarde test were done w/ ball ammo. Ball ammo, caliber wins, good JHP, not so important as longas some expansion occurs & enough mass to give 100% penetration form any reasonable angle. The FBI min of 12" isn't a terrible benchmark.
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Old 04-24-2012, 22:48   #196
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Originally Posted by 3000fps View Post
Everyone also seems to forget the mass amounts of cattle that were lined up and shot with various calibers.

The cows that died the fastest were shot with .45

That is why the 45 ACP was chose.

It sounds cruel, but that is cold hard facts.

The cows that were shot with 9mm had to be killed with a hammer.
Years ago when i was spending alot of times on farms i remember a guy at a sale yard having to put down a horse, he used his 1911 .45 to do - goes to his car gets his gun out - shoots the horse - puts his gun back in the car, we all went back to our business, not long after we saw the horse standing! blood stains on its head and it trying to stagger around.
Ive shoot hundreds (literally) of animals on farms - some big some dangerous some small - the 9mm for me has been one of the most effective rounds ive ever used, the .45 on the other hand has let me down the most.
Ive had .40's skim of animals heads, had animals run 200 yds plus after taking 230gn .45 JHP's.
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Old 04-24-2012, 22:50   #197
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Sorry I don't buy it
Of course you dont buy it

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Old 04-24-2012, 22:53   #198
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It's funny too. I understand if someone wants a bigger caliber and can bring good points to the table, like Fred, or Canyonman. All M&P shooter does though is get sarcastic, and embarrassed when you show him a .45 doesn't make a bad guy do 10 back flips after hitting him square in the chest.
Yep damn straight

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Old 04-25-2012, 05:56   #199
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The LaGarde test were done w/ ball ammo. Ball ammo, caliber wins, good JHP, not so important as longas some expansion occurs & enough mass to give 100% penetration form any reasonable angle. The FBI min of 12" isn't a terrible benchmark.
I guess we haven't learned much in the last 100 or so years then. No improvements in manufacturing of firearms, ammo, mind-set or anything else then either.
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:05   #200
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Sure, w/o medical attention, the wound was fatal, but not enough damage to stop the fight. Punch a whole in the heart & double lungs, not many things can fight for long, not even that big buff in my avatar.
No even WITH ANY medical attention, the round to Platt was fatal and classified as "non-survivable". I think people fail to grasp the extraordinary actions of Platt on April 11, 1986.

Anyone who blames the Winchester Silvertip "failure" for the events that followed Platt being shot in South Miami doesn't understand the dynamics of the battle that took place. The lack of tactics is what caused the the problems for the good guys.
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