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Old 04-21-2012, 12:19   #141
WiskyT
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Originally Posted by sellersm View Post
And as Freakshow said, kids can sometimes limit the travel arrangements ("Daddy, why can't we just spend the day in the pool?")!
My son wants to go to "the woods" and see wolverines. Like it's that easy, just gas up the minivan, drive for an hour, and walk in from the side of the road and see the wolverines. So I recorded an NatGeo special and it's all about wolverines, so he's like WTF? That guy can see all the wolverines he wants but we can't?
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Old 04-21-2012, 18:41   #142
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Archer-one

Guess what??? My barrels came in !!!!!!!!!

Remember how you gave me this advice?

"If that is not good enough and you HATE LWD barrels; fine! Buy a different barrel; but I highly doubt that you will be 100% satisfied, anymore than you are now...and will probably continue to have "issues" that you are upset over."


I followed your advice above and ordered those two KKM barrels, one for the Glock 27 and one for the Glock 30 and boy was that ever some good advice.

I just got back from being out in the desert here and ran a bunch of test reloaded ammo through both of them. The Glock 27 ran perfectly with no failure to feed or extracts with 3 different types of bullets in them, the same ones that I couldn't get to feed in the Lone Wolf barrel. Next up was the Glock 30 and it was humming away just great too as it handled 4 different bullet types. It even handled those hard to run H&G #68 mold 205 grain cast semiwadcutters. As you know, those rascals are hard to feed through the Glocks and some other shooters as well.

Wow all the issues with the failure to feeds in the Lone Wolf barrels are now history and boy am I pleased. I'm sure you know how annoying it is to shoot, clear, shoot, clear, shoot, clear for an afternoon.

Now just to clean them up and see if there is any leading in those two barrels. I wouldn't think so as I'm running those Lazer Cast silver bullets in them.

Thanks for tip and good shooting to you.
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Old 04-21-2012, 18:46   #143
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"Daddy, why can't we just spend the day in the pool?"
You're going to the damn gun show and you're going to like it.

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Old 04-21-2012, 19:17   #144
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You're going to the damn gun show and you're going to like it.

LOL!
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Old 04-21-2012, 22:18   #145
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Old 04-22-2012, 16:29   #146
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Well I've been following this thread for awhile now since I had already ordered the lonewolf 6.6 inch threaded 10mm barrel have to admit you guys had me nervous. Finally tried it out today with my reloads and if ran perfect I don't load lead so maybe that's why only xtps anyway a also tried dropping fired brass I had laying around in the barrel before taking it out wouldn't fit but drop it in the stock barrel and it'll rattle not sure how anybody wants to take this but I'm happy with my purchase if I ever start reloading lead and find it doesn't feed right I'll get the sadly only 6 inch kkm Reloading

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Old 04-23-2012, 15:29   #147
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Lone Wolf vs. KKM barrels

I loaded up some .40S&W 155g. Lazer Cast rounds this past weekend and then decided to do some comparison tests between these two barrels.

I used an RCBS 3 DIE Carb TC set and adjusted the sizing die down to touch the shell holder and then an additional 1/4 turn. When I tried to turn the die down 1/2 turn the handle would not "cam" over so I maxed out the sizing from those RCBS dies.

SAAMI specs for OAL for the .40S&W are from 1.085 min --1.135 max. I seated those bullets to 1.100 without putting a crimp on them.

I know that there are some heated feelings about Lee FCD but I ran them through that die to put a crimp of 1/2 turn after contacting the case and to also size the case again.

I then took the barrels and did a side by side comparison for a "thunk" test by loading around 25% of the rounds through both of them. All the rounds "thunk" in the KKM and about 90% of the 25% rounds used in the "thunk" test failed in the Lone Wolf barrels. They would feed down about 2/3 of the way and then hang up.

All the cases used had been shot in one of two Sig .40's.

I'm not aware of any additional changes that could be made with the equipment at hand to accommodate the Lone Wolf barrel other than sending it back for about a $40-45 total cost "adjustment" by the original importers at Lone Wolf.
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Old 04-23-2012, 15:44   #148
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Why would anyone take credence in your 'thunk' test when you don't even know how to adjust a seating/crimping die?

Perhaps you should learn a bit more about loading and designed barrel tolerances before you start giving advice.


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Old 04-23-2012, 15:48   #149
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I then took the barrels and did a side by side comparison for a "thunk" test by loading around 25% of the rounds through both of them. All the rounds "thunk" in the KKM and about 90% of the 25% rounds used in the "thunk" test failed in the Lone Wolf barrels. They would feed down about 2/3 of the way and then hang up.

All the cases used had been shot in one of two Sig .40's.
Did you try any of the resized cases in the chamber BEFORE you seated the bullet?

It could very well be that the area near the base of the bullet wasn't sufficiently resized even though you had the die all the way down. That's the reason that a lot of folks use the Lee sizing die instead of almost anything else (including the far more feature laden Dillon).

Crimping a cartridge that headspaces on the case mouth is not the best way to load. All you want to do is close up the mouth, not indent the bullet in any way.

There is also a possibility that the FCD will resize the bullet and lead bullets are deliberately 0.001" larger than jacketed. I have never used this die but if the effect is to size the loaded round to match a factory jacketed round, the bullet is now too small.

Measurements, measurements, measurements. None of this anecdotal information is useful without measurements. Diameter just above the base, diameter at the case mouth, OAL, etc. You can mark the loaded round with a Sharpie and spin it in the chamber to mark where the round is dragging. It matters whether it is dragging at the case mouth or at the base. Especially since the extra crimp operation might have bulged the case in the area of the crimp.

Did the failing rounds fit a case gauge? Sure, they fit another barrel but did they fit a gauge?

Richard
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Old 04-23-2012, 15:58   #150
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Well the 25 fit the KKM just fine.
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Old 04-23-2012, 16:30   #151
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Well the 25 fit the KKM just fine.
Even after the FCD they still failed the LWD. Maybe he should have used an OAL of 0.900" just to make sure they fit?



















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Old 04-23-2012, 16:31   #152
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Originally Posted by GioaJack View Post
Why would anyone take credence in your 'thunk' test when you don't even know how to adjust a seating/crimping die?

Perhaps you should learn a bit more about loading and designed barrel tolerances before you start giving advice.


Jack

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Show me where the advice is being given in my statement.

Merely relating the results of how the rounds would fit in the barrels, a simple pass/fail test that I think you would understand? Right?

Here's a little thread here on GT that might/might not be educational for you. Colorado4Wheel is stating:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...1375623&page=2

Sounds like I stepped on your toes a wee bit there.
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Old 04-23-2012, 17:00   #153
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Well the 25 fit the KKM just fine.
True but they would probably have fit a Glock barrel as well. I'm pretty sure you can chamber a bowling ball in a Glock barrel.

Nevertheless, your two posts in this thread spell it all out:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1375623

In the recent discussion of the 90% of 25% failure, there isn't a single relevant number except OAL and it may be problematic if the bullet is impacting the rifling.

The extra crimp could well have bulged the case near the mouth. The brass wasn't checked BEFORE the bullet was loaded. There is no indication WHERE on the loaded round it is dragging. And so on... Just a statement that they don't fit the LWD but do fit the KKM.

Without numbers and no indication that the rounds would fit a case gauge (even though it won't do much to test for bullet/rifling interference as you point out in the referenced thread) it just isn't much of an experiment.

I am not doubting that the LWD chamber is tight. But I am saying that if people want to discuss it, they should bring numbers; real measurements. Everything else is just talk...

And if the loading process itself is suspect, it just isn't a valid experiment and even numbers won't help.

Richard
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Old 04-23-2012, 17:06   #154
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Measurements don't matter, what matters is the rounds don't fit. And measurements aren't the be-all end-all because you can measure something like a crimp (which is tapered) three times and get three different numbers. The fact is, the rounds fit the KKM barrel, KKM barrels seem to get less (none?) gripes, and they don't fit the LWD which supports what Freak was saying in this thread, and what I have been saying for 5 years or more. LWD has created a chamber that won't chamber ammo that others will. If anyone wants such a chamber, they know where to find it.
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Old 04-23-2012, 17:18   #155
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Even after the FCD they still failed the LWD. Maybe he should have used an OAL of 0.900" just to make sure they fit?
I agree.

With a 1.100" OAL and running through an FCD to boot they should fit in the LWD barrel no excuses. Like colorado said, they all fit in the KKM and they are a "match" barrel.

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Old 04-23-2012, 17:40   #156
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I'm not saying the chamber isn't tight. But I know that I can make rounds that won't chamber in any barrel if I mess up the process enough. And these loads were messed up!

It just seems hard to believe that every shooter who buys a LWD barrel has to immediately turn around and send it back for adjustment. After all, why buy the barrel other than to shoot lead? It certainly doesn't have a reputation as making a target gun out of a Glock. Now, I'm not including specialty barrels like extended, ported, threaded or caliber conversion. Those purchasers may have some goal other than shooting lead. In my imagination, everybody buys LWD to shoot lead.

But, in effect, we are to assume a 100% failure rate shooting lead through a LWD (at least in 40 S&W). It just doesn't seem right. They have to be working for somebody!

And the measurements do matter because there is only 0.001" clearance between a SAAMI max cartridge and a SAAMI min chamber. Given that the lead bullet is 0.001" larger than a jacketed bullet, all of the clearance is gone. If the reloaded round exceeds the SAAMI measurements in any way, it simply won't fit a SAAMI chamber. But how can you tell without a measurement?

While I didn't think much of the Hickok45 comparison, I am will to concede that his reloads are correct and the chamber is an issue. He's been doing it too long to make mistakes. It seemed like the least bit of contamination and the rounds wouldn't chamber.

Richard
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Old 04-23-2012, 17:49   #157
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Hmmm, seems to me that the case gage would be a good test: if they did fit that and then failed the LWD barrel test, then that says something!
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Old 04-23-2012, 18:10   #158
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Hmmm, seems to me that the case gage would be a good test: if they did fit that and then failed the LWD barrel test, then that says something!

You know that I didn't use a case gauge because I don't shoot them out of a case gauge, just a KKM barrel. It was a simple barrel to barrel comparison as I had both barrels.

Didn't really have the time nor the inclination to draw up a set of schematics for publication in Scientific American or Gun World.

Seems simple to me. The same lad using the same equipment loaded all the roads and took a sample of the rounds (25) and conducted an INFORMAL drop test into a couple of barrels. Didn't calculate nor did I want to calculate the standard deviation of the length of the unchambered rounds nor compute any extreme spread for that sample size. Didn't want to analyze any correlation-regression analysis either.

EASY SUMMARY - these rounds, so faultily made, were able to be chambered in a barrel, not a case gauge for reasons stated above, made by KKM and failed to chamber roughly, didn't take notes, 90% of the time in the Lone Wolf barrel. If you don't like the testing lab ..............
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Old 04-23-2012, 22:46   #159
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Bluescot, I wasn't commenting on your testing, I was stating that the original point of this thread, and most of the subsequent discussion was on the 'fit' of the LW barrels. Therefore, I was curious if you dropped any of your rounds in a case gauge, and they did fit, but then didn't fit in the LW barrel, then that would be giving some credence to what most of this thread is about.

I hope that made sense, always does in my head when I'm typing, but not always in translation to the keyboard!
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:11   #160
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I have a KKM and a EGW case gauge. The KKM is pretty darn tight. I can't imagine making it tighter on purpose. MY LW barrel worked fine with jacketed bullets. Every lead bullet I tried leaded horribly.
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