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Old 04-23-2012, 16:30   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Well the 25 fit the KKM just fine.
Even after the FCD they still failed the LWD. Maybe he should have used an OAL of 0.900" just to make sure they fit?



















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Old 04-23-2012, 16:31   #152
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Originally Posted by GioaJack View Post
Why would anyone take credence in your 'thunk' test when you don't even know how to adjust a seating/crimping die?

Perhaps you should learn a bit more about loading and designed barrel tolerances before you start giving advice.


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Show me where the advice is being given in my statement.

Merely relating the results of how the rounds would fit in the barrels, a simple pass/fail test that I think you would understand? Right?

Here's a little thread here on GT that might/might not be educational for you. Colorado4Wheel is stating:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...1375623&page=2

Sounds like I stepped on your toes a wee bit there.
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Old 04-23-2012, 17:00   #153
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Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Well the 25 fit the KKM just fine.
True but they would probably have fit a Glock barrel as well. I'm pretty sure you can chamber a bowling ball in a Glock barrel.

Nevertheless, your two posts in this thread spell it all out:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1375623

In the recent discussion of the 90% of 25% failure, there isn't a single relevant number except OAL and it may be problematic if the bullet is impacting the rifling.

The extra crimp could well have bulged the case near the mouth. The brass wasn't checked BEFORE the bullet was loaded. There is no indication WHERE on the loaded round it is dragging. And so on... Just a statement that they don't fit the LWD but do fit the KKM.

Without numbers and no indication that the rounds would fit a case gauge (even though it won't do much to test for bullet/rifling interference as you point out in the referenced thread) it just isn't much of an experiment.

I am not doubting that the LWD chamber is tight. But I am saying that if people want to discuss it, they should bring numbers; real measurements. Everything else is just talk...

And if the loading process itself is suspect, it just isn't a valid experiment and even numbers won't help.

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Old 04-23-2012, 17:06   #154
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Measurements don't matter, what matters is the rounds don't fit. And measurements aren't the be-all end-all because you can measure something like a crimp (which is tapered) three times and get three different numbers. The fact is, the rounds fit the KKM barrel, KKM barrels seem to get less (none?) gripes, and they don't fit the LWD which supports what Freak was saying in this thread, and what I have been saying for 5 years or more. LWD has created a chamber that won't chamber ammo that others will. If anyone wants such a chamber, they know where to find it.
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Old 04-23-2012, 17:18   #155
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Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
Even after the FCD they still failed the LWD. Maybe he should have used an OAL of 0.900" just to make sure they fit?
I agree.

With a 1.100" OAL and running through an FCD to boot they should fit in the LWD barrel no excuses. Like colorado said, they all fit in the KKM and they are a "match" barrel.

Last edited by dkf; 04-23-2012 at 17:18..
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Old 04-23-2012, 17:40   #156
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I'm not saying the chamber isn't tight. But I know that I can make rounds that won't chamber in any barrel if I mess up the process enough. And these loads were messed up!

It just seems hard to believe that every shooter who buys a LWD barrel has to immediately turn around and send it back for adjustment. After all, why buy the barrel other than to shoot lead? It certainly doesn't have a reputation as making a target gun out of a Glock. Now, I'm not including specialty barrels like extended, ported, threaded or caliber conversion. Those purchasers may have some goal other than shooting lead. In my imagination, everybody buys LWD to shoot lead.

But, in effect, we are to assume a 100% failure rate shooting lead through a LWD (at least in 40 S&W). It just doesn't seem right. They have to be working for somebody!

And the measurements do matter because there is only 0.001" clearance between a SAAMI max cartridge and a SAAMI min chamber. Given that the lead bullet is 0.001" larger than a jacketed bullet, all of the clearance is gone. If the reloaded round exceeds the SAAMI measurements in any way, it simply won't fit a SAAMI chamber. But how can you tell without a measurement?

While I didn't think much of the Hickok45 comparison, I am will to concede that his reloads are correct and the chamber is an issue. He's been doing it too long to make mistakes. It seemed like the least bit of contamination and the rounds wouldn't chamber.

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Old 04-23-2012, 17:49   #157
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Hmmm, seems to me that the case gage would be a good test: if they did fit that and then failed the LWD barrel test, then that says something!
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Old 04-23-2012, 18:10   #158
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Hmmm, seems to me that the case gage would be a good test: if they did fit that and then failed the LWD barrel test, then that says something!

You know that I didn't use a case gauge because I don't shoot them out of a case gauge, just a KKM barrel. It was a simple barrel to barrel comparison as I had both barrels.

Didn't really have the time nor the inclination to draw up a set of schematics for publication in Scientific American or Gun World.

Seems simple to me. The same lad using the same equipment loaded all the roads and took a sample of the rounds (25) and conducted an INFORMAL drop test into a couple of barrels. Didn't calculate nor did I want to calculate the standard deviation of the length of the unchambered rounds nor compute any extreme spread for that sample size. Didn't want to analyze any correlation-regression analysis either.

EASY SUMMARY - these rounds, so faultily made, were able to be chambered in a barrel, not a case gauge for reasons stated above, made by KKM and failed to chamber roughly, didn't take notes, 90% of the time in the Lone Wolf barrel. If you don't like the testing lab ..............
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Old 04-23-2012, 22:46   #159
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Bluescot, I wasn't commenting on your testing, I was stating that the original point of this thread, and most of the subsequent discussion was on the 'fit' of the LW barrels. Therefore, I was curious if you dropped any of your rounds in a case gauge, and they did fit, but then didn't fit in the LW barrel, then that would be giving some credence to what most of this thread is about.

I hope that made sense, always does in my head when I'm typing, but not always in translation to the keyboard!
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:11   #160
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I have a KKM and a EGW case gauge. The KKM is pretty darn tight. I can't imagine making it tighter on purpose. MY LW barrel worked fine with jacketed bullets. Every lead bullet I tried leaded horribly.
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Old 04-24-2012, 17:29   #161
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Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
If I ever get back to SHOT show, I'll stop by your booth again. I was there at SHOT 2010 to check out the AR lowers in person. Having two children 5yo and younger limits my travel time.

Sounds like a plan! I'm pictured in my avatar...and besides that; I'm the only bald-headed dwarf, as wide as I am tall in our booth...I'm hard to miss! LOL. So come say hi.
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Old 04-24-2012, 17:33   #162
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Now isn't that the truth!! I always have trouble understanding what's written, I'd much rather just hear it!

Thanks for the invite... And as Freakshow said, kids can sometimes limit the travel arrangements ("Daddy, why can't we just spend the day in the pool?")!
Anytime sellersm; I think that JR has me giving out free hugs at the next show...! HA!
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:07   #163
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Well, it looks to me like

I won't be ordering a LWD barrel for my G20.

I have absolutely no desire for a "minimum spec" MATCH chamber that has problems with cast bullets. I'm also a little put off by the attitude displayed by the owner & his employee. Not mad, but a little put off...I've been reloading for over 45 years & generally go the extra steps to ensure my reloads are not only within specs. but exceed the quality standards of most, if not ALL factory loaded ammo...especially when it's going to be used in a semi auto...I'd hazard a guess, that most reloaders do likewise...ymmv.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:18   #164
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Tom

I would suggest that you call KKM and talk to them and see if their products are a match for what you are looking for in an aftermarket barrel.

Before and during the order that I placed with them I talked to two different guys at their shop and came away impressed with the courteous and professional manner in which they answered my searching questions about their barrels. They offered suggestions to me and all in all it was a first class experience and their barrels are functioning with my reloads. Quite a difference from the previous importer that I bought two barrels from.

Good luck to you in your search.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:24   #165
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Originally Posted by Tom Towns View Post
I won't be ordering a LWD barrel for my G20.

I have absolutely no desire for a "minimum spec" MATCH chamber that has problems with cast bullets. I'm also a little put off by the attitude displayed by the owner & his employee. Not mad, but a little put off...I've been reloading for over 45 years & generally go the extra steps to ensure my reloads are not only within specs. but exceed the quality standards of most, if not ALL factory loaded ammo...especially when it's going to be used in a semi auto...I'd hazard a guess, that most reloaders do likewise...ymmv.
KKM is a match barrel. It is my opinion that LW has pretty broad tolerances compared to KKM. With KKM you know it will be tight but not too tight. He is very proud of his barrels. They are not just mass produced items.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:21   #166
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Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
KKM is a match barrel. It is my opinion that LW has pretty broad tolerances compared to KKM. With KKM you know it will be tight but not too tight. He is very proud of his barrels. They are not just mass produced items.

I agree with you Colorado but, as mentioned by me in this thread, when I did a side by side test of a Lone Wolf Barrel and a KKM barrel I found that that KKM would chamber rounds that the Lone Wolf chocked on. Now that is obviously just a non scientific test of only two barrels and they could be all over the board spec wise.

That being said, I still wonder why, from a pure marketing point, that someone doesn't offer a barrel for Glock shooters that want to pump lead down the barrel that will handle the quality of reloads that most produce????

I know accuracy can be a driving force but you have to get the darn bullet into the gun before it can be accurate.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:42   #167
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Originally Posted by Bluescot View Post
I agree with you Colorado but, as mentioned by me in this thread, when I did a side by side test of a Lone Wolf Barrel and a KKM barrel I found that that KKM would chamber rounds that the Lone Wolf chocked on. Now that is obviously just a non scientific test of only two barrels and they could be all over the board spec wise.

That being said, I still wonder why, from a pure marketing point, that someone doesn't offer a barrel for Glock shooters that want to pump lead down the barrel that will handle the quality of reloads that most produce????

I know accuracy can be a driving force but you have to get the darn bullet into the gun before it can be accurate.

That is what I suggested to LW. One match grade "chamber" one regular chamber. Make the regular chamber just a smidge tighter then the Glock.
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Old 04-26-2012, 18:05   #168
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I have a 5.15" LW barrel in my G20 and like it a lot. The OEM barrel that came with my pistol is, IMHO JUNK. Glocks would be much better pistols if you could by one new less there crap euro trash barrel and whore loose chambers and the support of a old saggy boob. Sands my worthless OEM G20 barrel has never fired one of my rounds. And from the looks of the test fired brass that came with Glock doesn't care about there craptastic barrels.

My LW barrel has chambered every thing I've loaded for it including some SWC lead. It shoots out fantastic! Brass comes out as nice as it went in with no gas leak issues, smileys or swiped primer hits.

I will be buying more LW barrels.
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Old 04-26-2012, 18:09   #169
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Originally Posted by blastfact View Post
I have a 5.15" LW barrel in my G20 and like it a lot. The OEM barrel that came with my pistol is, IMHO JUNK. Glocks would be much better pistols if you could by one new less there crap euro trash barrel and whore loose chambers and the support of a old saggy boob. Sands my worthless OEM G20 barrel has never fired one of my rounds. And from the looks of the test fired brass that came with Glock doesn't care about there craptastic barrels.

My LW barrel has chambered every thing I've loaded for it including some SWC lead. It shoots out fantastic! Brass comes out as nice as it went in with no gas leak issues, smileys or swiped primer hits.

I will be buying more LW barrels.
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Old 04-26-2012, 18:12   #170
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I'm happy with my Glock .357sig and .40 barrels. You are not going to get more chamber support with an aftermarket .357sig barrel vs the newer design .357sig Glock barrel. Matter of fact the aftermarket barrels actually have less support at the feed ramp. Glock also updated the .40 barrels several years ago for more chamber support. Still not as much support as the .357sig version but better than they used to be. Glock probably doesn't pay much attention to upgrading their 10mm line of pistols because they are at the very bottom of sales.

Quote:
If I ever start reloading lead and find it doesn't feed right I'll get the sadly only 6 inch kkm.
Before you write KKM off on the longer barrel I would contact them. They make their own barrels and I'm sure they would be willing to make a little longer barrel for you.

Last edited by dkf; 04-26-2012 at 18:15..
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Old 04-26-2012, 18:49   #171
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Glock probably doesn't pay much attention to upgrading their 10mm line of pistols because they are at the very bottom of sales.
Must be why I had to order mine off Gunbroker...

Seriously...I hit all the gunshops around here for a couple months before I found one I could handle, but even it had been converted to a .50
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Old 04-26-2012, 18:59   #172
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Tom

I would suggest that you call KKM and talk to them and see if their products are a match for what you are looking for in an aftermarket barrel.

Thanks, I've heard nothing but good about them & that's probably the way I'll go. I'm probably gonna get a little longer barrel & run the guide rod laser & see how that works out.
The gun's on layaway right now & I probably won't take possession of it till the end of next month...plenty of time to get new dies, cases, etc.
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Old 04-26-2012, 20:30   #173
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LWD should know by now customers buy their barrels to shoot lead, so they should have their barrels throated to facilitate this.
I bought the LWD barrel to shoot 9mm from a g22. I thought that's what most people buy them for. That being said, the LDW website says, "The standard groove and land rifling make this an excellent choice for those who wish to shoot lead, plated or jacketed bullets". I they have a problem with shooting lead, the description should say so. They have no problem telling you that light loads may FTE. "About 1% of our 9mm conversion barrels are affected by the poor performance of low powered 115 grain ammunition causing a Failure To Eject (FTE). A good example of ammunition that is “most likely to fail” is Winchester White Box (WWB). This rare failure is too low a percentage to make an issue, however it is one we are well aware of."
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Old 04-26-2012, 20:37   #174
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I have a 5.15" LW barrel in my G20 and like it a lot. The OEM barrel that came with my pistol is, IMHO JUNK. Glocks would be much better pistols if you could by one new less there crap euro trash barrel and whore loose chambers and the support of a old saggy boob. Sands my worthless OEM G20 barrel has never fired one of my rounds. And from the looks of the test fired brass that came with Glock doesn't care about there craptastic barrels.

My LW barrel has chambered every thing I've loaded for it including some SWC lead. It shoots out fantastic! Brass comes out as nice as it went in with no gas leak issues, smileys or swiped primer hits.

I will be buying more LW barrels.
I've got two LWD barrels, one for a Glock 27 and one for a Glock 30 standard length that I'll sell you cheap.
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Old 04-26-2012, 20:40   #175
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That is what I suggested to LW. One match grade "chamber" one regular chamber. Make the regular chamber just a smidge tighter then the Glock.

Let me guess, you haven't heard back yet right?

They seem to be just an importer and the source for their barrels was guessed to be Korea. Sometimes it's hard to control the QC that you get and you can either solve the problem or call your customers idiots. I think we know which one was selected.
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