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Old 07-25-2012, 16:59   #326
DoctaGlockta
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Thanks for the reminder guys. I sent a check for two barrels quite some time ago and had forgotten about them. Will place a call to customer service tomorrow to see what is up.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:02   #327
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The saga of Bluescot "Two Barrels" will continue. Unfortunately he is only providing partial information. I asked him to simply send me a couple samples of his reload so I could hand ream the chamber to fit. He insisted on waiting for the custom LWD reamer so fondly referred to as " The GT Hole".
The reamer is on order, I have to wait, he has to wait!
He will not be issued a refund because the barrels have been modified!

Once again I would like to state for the record: The issue is with his reload, not factory loads. I have provided a simple video for your further review.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:13   #328
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Originally Posted by JR View Post
The saga of Bluescot "Two Barrels" will continue. Unfortunately he is only providing partial information. I asked him to simply send me a couple samples of his reload so I could hand ream the chamber to fit. He insisted on waiting for the custom LWD reamer so fondly referred to as " The GT Hole".
The reamer is on order, I have to wait, he has to wait!
He will not be issued a refund because the barrels have been modified!

Once again I would like to state for the record: The issue is with his reload, not factory loads. I have provided a simple video for your further review.
Seems pretty cut and dry to me...
I don't understand why Bluescot wouldn't want to send his own loads in to have them modified?
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:26   #329
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Still doesn't understand what reloaders need.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:31   #330
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Seems pretty cut and dry to me...
I don't understand why Bluescot wouldn't want to send his own loads in to have them modified?
I agree Bluescot should send in some reloads.(if he didn't already)

That said it sounds to me like LW does not have the reamer yet anyway.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:38   #331
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I have both a G26 and G27 and today I saw Lone Wolf Conversion barrels for the G27 on sale for $99.97 at Cheaper Than Dirt. I couldn't decide which I wanted, the 9mm or the 357 sig, so I got both. I'm really looking forward to using the 357 Sig as I've never fired one before.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:47   #332
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I agree Bluescot should send in some reloads.(if he didn't already)

That said it sounds to me like LW does not have the reamer yet anyway.

A reamer costs about $70 and since it is only cleaning up 0.001" (more or less), it shouldn't be a difficult task for an end user to open up the chamber.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4...TOL-CARTRIDGES

I think...

Richard
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Old 07-26-2012, 13:40   #333
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Say what you want but they must be really busy and doing well.

I have had a couple of barrels on back order since Feb.
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Old 07-26-2012, 14:07   #334
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A reamer costs about $70 and since it is only cleaning up 0.001" (more or less), it shouldn't be a difficult task for an end user to open up the chamber.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4...TOL-CARTRIDGES

I think...

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From what I've gathered reading part of this thread the throat needs to be reamed. I didn't see any throat reamers on Brownells, only finish reamers which aren't going to get the job done because the throat/leade is set to a predetermined depth on a finish reamer.

I just bought a LW 40 conversion barrel for my G20 to use for USPSA. I knew ahead of time it would need to be throated, as nobody is going to cut a .40 chamber to run ammo at an OAL of 1.200" with a 200gr truncated cone bullet unless it's a special order. Sure I was hoping to get lucky, but didn't expect it.

I've had other LW barrels in 9mm and 40 and never had a problem, but I wasn't reloading long rounds or using oddball bullets like I will be through the new 40 barrel.
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Old 07-26-2012, 14:21   #335
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A reamer costs about $70 and since it is only cleaning up 0.001" (more or less), it shouldn't be a difficult task for an end user to open up the chamber.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4...TOL-CARTRIDGES

I think...

Richard
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From what I've gathered reading part of this thread the throat needs to be reamed. I didn't see any throat reamers on Brownells, only finish reamers which aren't going to get the job done because the throat/leade is set to a predetermined depth on a finish reamer.
This is exactly what result I came upon when debating having my local gunsmith do it.
JR did right by me no unreasonable requests either way.
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Old 07-26-2012, 14:39   #336
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I just bought a LW 40 conversion barrel for my G20 to use for USPSA. I knew ahead of time it would need to be throated, as nobody is going to cut a .40 chamber to run ammo at an OAL of 1.200" with a 200gr truncated cone bullet unless it's a special order. Sure I was hoping to get lucky, but didn't expect it.
I just bought a KKM 10-40 barrel for the same reason, my USPSA Limited gun. I sent KKM some dummy rounds of Bear Creek 180gr TC's @ 1.20" & 1.22". They finish reamed it at no additional cost. My KKM 10-40 barrel has eaten 400rds of 180gr Bear Creeks @ 1.20" with no issues.

On a side note, I know a guy that loads 180gr JHP's out at 1.26" OAL in his KKM 10-40 barrel just the way it came.
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Old 07-26-2012, 16:16   #337
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The saga of Bluescot "Two Barrels" will continue. Unfortunately he is only providing partial information. I asked him to simply send me a couple samples of his reload so I could hand ream the chamber to fit. He insisted on waiting for the custom LWD reamer so fondly referred to as " The GT Hole".
The reamer is on order, I have to wait, he has to wait!
He will not be issued a refund because the barrels have been modified!

Once again I would like to state for the record: The issue is with his reload, not factory loads. I have provided a simple video for your further review.
27 & 30 barrel - YouTube
JR

There you go again telling only half the story. In post #251 of this thread your offer was:

"No, I plan to waive the $30 fee in this instance.
If anybody reading this thread has a LWD barrel that is not performing as well as they think it should, I will ask them to return the barrel so we can recut the chamber to the COLT (you see, I have a name for it) spec chamber. Once the barrel is received I simply request they post their findings here on this thread. You guys may be disgruntled but I firmly believe you are honest so you are going to say the barrel works as advertized. (I win again)
Once this chamber is accepted, I will most likely change all the Gen4 chambers to fit the same. Yes that is correct, I will change 10's of thousands of barrel chambers to stop these 5 guys from their rant. NOW I TOTALLY FEEL LIKE A DEMOCRAT! Change the needs of the many to fit the 5!
Oh yah, because I detest this chamber I will drop the price too. I will sell more barrels in May than I normally do in 6 months.

PS: If you want your chamber hogged out to this Colt spec simply mail it to us at the regular LWD address and print on the outside of the package "GT Hole Requested".
PSS: *You must also write a personal note saying you think I am a great guy and awesome listener. (come on, now thats funny!) "


If you reread that, and I know you can, there is no requirement for sending in any reloaded ammo in your offer. You made the offer, I accepted the terms of the offer as stated. Sounds like a contract to me. Sometimes the things we say and the offers we make are recorded and come back to bit us in the butt, right????

It is supposed to be the "Colt chamber" and it would be reasonable to assume that you would have the materials on hand in order to extend the offer. Silly thought huh??

Those two barrels were delivered to your shop on May 9, 2012 ( I add the year there because in the future it may become critical) at 9:56AM as per a USPS Confirm Receipt, I thought that might come in handy.

It has now been 78 days since the barrels hit your shop and still just a song and a dance about how the reamer has been ordered but not yet arrived. Sounds a wee bit like the similar line "It's in the mail".

Amazing and pathetic mode of dealing with customers and then failing to follow through with a valid offer and acceptance.

How much longer till both barrels are corrected??????????
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Old 07-26-2012, 16:17   #338
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Say what you want but they must be really busy and doing well.

I have had a couple of barrels on back order since Feb.
Its because they are cheaper than the other barrels.

Since I take it the LW barrels are made overseas (as nobody will say for sure where they are made) the lead time is a lot longer than a made in the USA barrel like KKM, Storm Lake ore BarSto.

Bluescot just send off two dummy rounds for each barrel to him. He won't have any more reasons for not sending the barrels then. Well he shouldn't.

Last edited by dkf; 07-26-2012 at 16:21..
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Old 07-26-2012, 16:45   #339
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KKM is also very busy. So much so that they are not keeping up with new distributor orders is the rumor.
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Old 07-26-2012, 17:31   #340
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From what I've gathered reading part of this thread the throat needs to be reamed. I didn't see any throat reamers on Brownells, only finish reamers which aren't going to get the job done because the throat/leade is set to a predetermined depth on a finish reamer.
From the description at Brownell's, the finish reamer includes the throating function. It should produce a SAAMI chamber in all regards.

Now, if somebody want to load a 9mm to 3", I guess they have to buy a custom barrel (and cases). But it's my understanding that the problem at hand is the chamber diameter being too small for lead bullets which are 0.001" larger in diameter than jacketed bullets. There is only 0.001" clearance in a SAAMI chamber so even if the chamber were perfect, there still might be a problem if the wall thickness of the brass is too much.

In any event, it's pretty clear from the video that the LWD barrel will work on factory ammo. What is unclear is whether it will work on lead bullets that are larger in diameter and that, of course, is the primary reason for retrofitting the Glock barrel.

Richard
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Old 07-26-2012, 17:41   #341
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Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
From the description at Brownell's, the finish reamer includes the throating function. It should produce a SAAMI chamber in all regards.

Now, if somebody want to load a 9mm to 3", I guess they have to buy a custom barrel (and cases). But it's my understanding that the problem at hand is the chamber diameter being too small for lead bullets which are 0.001" larger in diameter than jacketed bullets. There is only 0.001" clearance in a SAAMI chamber so even if the chamber were perfect, there still might be a problem if the wall thickness of the brass is too much.

In any event, it's pretty clear from the video that the LWD barrel will work on factory ammo. What is unclear is whether it will work on lead bullets that are larger in diameter and that, of course, is the primary reason for retrofitting the Glock barrel.

Richard
All I think the video proves is that LWD barrel works. Quality control seems to be the issue. That explains why some work with lead bullet reloads and some don't. If the barrel is imported junk, the reamers could get worn and the chambers cut too small/short.

It comes down to credibility. I've never bought a Barsto barrel, and likely never will, but the company has an excellent reputation and I trust that their tolerances remain within whatever specs they market their barrels for. LWD on the other hand, has a mediocre reputation IMO. JR's crappy attitude just corroborates the reputation. Let's face it, the guy seems to pride himself in having people not respect him. He reminds me of ja ceiner.
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Old 07-26-2012, 17:58   #342
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All I think the video proves is that LWD barrel works. Quality control seems to be the issue. That explains why some work with lead bullet reloads and some don't. If the barrel is imported junk, the reamers could get worn and the chambers cut too small/short.
Well, the video shows the barrel working for factory loads and by all accounts it doesn't work for reloads. It's clear to me that the barrels are purchased for use with reloads because there wouldn't be any other reason to do so.

I don't have a dog in this hunt but it seems to me that what we don't have are any facts. What exactly is the OD of the loaded round that won't chamber? What exactly is the ID of the chamber that won't accept the loaded round.

I suspect it is possible to create rounds that won't even fit in a SAAMI chamber. In fact, if I do the math and add up case wall (times 2) plus bullet diameter for a lead bullet, there is no way it should fit in a SAAMI chamber. All of the tolerances are used up. What we eventually get to is the fact that the chamber has to be oversized (beyond SAAMI specs) in order for lead bullets to function reliably. So now we enter the Twilight Zone. How much oversized should a chamber be and who says so?

Do we even know the ID of a Glock chamber? What about a KKM? And we need the answer down to 0.0001" so I'm not sure a telescoping T gauge will provide the needed accuracy.

Richard
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Old 07-26-2012, 18:03   #343
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From the description at Brownell's, the finish reamer includes the throating function. It should produce a SAAMI chamber in all regards.

Now, if somebody want to load a 9mm to 3", I guess they have to buy a custom barrel (and cases). But it's my understanding that the problem at hand is the chamber diameter being too small for lead bullets which are 0.001" larger in diameter than jacketed bullets. There is only 0.001" clearance in a SAAMI chamber so even if the chamber were perfect, there still might be a problem if the wall thickness of the brass is too much.

In any event, it's pretty clear from the video that the LWD barrel will work on factory ammo. What is unclear is whether it will work on lead bullets that are larger in diameter and that, of course, is the primary reason for retrofitting the Glock barrel.

Richard
Well said.

And what is the main reason most shooters buy an aftermarket ballard type rifled barrel for a Glock? It is to shoot lead. They not only miss the boat on the reason people buy aftermarket barrels for Glock but they are at the wrong harbor and telling us to get on the ship......Pitiful and Pathetic.

Interesting that the lads up at LWD had the time to get a video done and go out and do some shooting but not enough time to chase down a reamer that was ordered how many days ago??????????

78 days and waiting for the reamer that's in the mail..........funny line.
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Old 07-26-2012, 19:11   #344
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Well, the video shows the barrel working for factory loads and by all accounts it doesn't work for reloads. It's clear to me that the barrels are purchased for use with reloads because there wouldn't be any other reason to do so.

I don't have a dog in this hunt but it seems to me that what we don't have are any facts. What exactly is the OD of the loaded round that won't chamber? What exactly is the ID of the chamber that won't accept the loaded round.

I suspect it is possible to create rounds that won't even fit in a SAAMI chamber. In fact, if I do the math and add up case wall (times 2) plus bullet diameter for a lead bullet, there is no way it should fit in a SAAMI chamber. All of the tolerances are used up. What we eventually get to is the fact that the chamber has to be oversized (beyond SAAMI specs) in order for lead bullets to function reliably. So now we enter the Twilight Zone. How much oversized should a chamber be and who says so?

Do we even know the ID of a Glock chamber? What about a KKM? And we need the answer down to 0.0001" so I'm not sure a telescoping T gauge will provide the needed accuracy.

Richard

I agree with you regarding the barrel's intended use for reloads. My point was that I once got a rifle that would pull bullets when a live factory round was ejected. The throat was too short and it wasn't because the manufacturer intended it to be that way. It was a QC issue. They told me the chamber was cut too short due to a worn reamer. They very politely fixed the whole situation unlike JR who's customer service is sarcastic at best.

As for SAAMI chambers and reloads, I have two 9mm's, one Glock and one Ruger. They will both chamber reloads with 0.358" cast 158RN bullets. Maybe those chambers are incorrect, but the guns shoot accurately and reliably.
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Old 07-26-2012, 22:16   #345
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Well, the video shows the barrel working for factory loads and by all accounts it doesn't work for reloads. It's clear to me that the barrels are purchased for use with reloads because there wouldn't be any other reason to do so.

I don't have a dog in this hunt but it seems to me that what we don't have are any facts. What exactly is the OD of the loaded round that won't chamber? What exactly is the ID of the chamber that won't accept the loaded round.

I suspect it is possible to create rounds that won't even fit in a SAAMI chamber. In fact, if I do the math and add up case wall (times 2) plus bullet diameter for a lead bullet, there is no way it should fit in a SAAMI chamber. All of the tolerances are used up. What we eventually get to is the fact that the chamber has to be oversized (beyond SAAMI specs) in order for lead bullets to function reliably. So now we enter the Twilight Zone. How much oversized should a chamber be and who says so?

Do we even know the ID of a Glock chamber? What about a KKM? And we need the answer down to 0.0001" so I'm not sure a telescoping T gauge will provide the needed accuracy.

Richard
What your missing is that a chamber made to minimum saami is in spec as is one made larger that will work properly with lead.
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Old 07-26-2012, 22:32   #346
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As for SAAMI chambers and reloads, I have two 9mm's, one Glock and one Ruger. They will both chamber reloads with 0.358" cast 158RN bullets. Maybe those chambers are incorrect, but the guns shoot accurately and reliably.
They are just not made to minimum size. JR has/had it in his head that minimum chamber size was better in some way. It sounds like he is going to start making them a little bigger.
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Old 07-26-2012, 22:38   #347
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The Colt (GT Hole) reamers are on order. We placed the order quite awhile ago. We are waiting patiently for delivery. If the wait is more than you anticipated..... send in a few sample loads and we will get it done by hand.
BTW: I will be flying out in the morning to attend a Salmon Fishing Tournament in Rivers Inlet BC. I will not be able to respond to the hate banter portion of this thread until mid next week. Please by all means keep it going. I get better than 50% support out of this so I am going to continue for all its worth!
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:09   #348
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:12   #349
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What your missing is that a chamber made to minimum saami is in spec as is one made larger that will work properly with lead.
That's true. At the case mouth for a 9mm chamber the dimension is 0.381" +0.004" The cartridge diameter at the case mouth is 0.380" -0.007". Worst case of maximum cartridge diameter and minimum chamber diameter leaves just 0.001" clearance. And that 0.001" disappears quickly when the bullet itself is oversize and the cartridge is actually larger than 0.380"

Best case, of course, the cartridge clears the chamber by 0.012" in which case the round can flop around pretty good.

That's the thing about tolerances, all you have to do is meet them. There's nobody saying that, "Hey, you need to be on the max side of chamber diameter!". The tolerances are there to account for machine variations. A measurement meets the spec or it doesn't. Fudging to one side or the other shouldn't be required.

Again, how can we even discuss this without numbers? What is the chamber diameter? What is the cartridge diameter? Do they meet the spec or not?

Richard
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:26   #350
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Again, how can we even discuss this without numbers? What is the chamber diameter? What is the cartridge diameter? Do they meet the spec or not?

Richard
Agreed. I'd like to know the OAL of the reloads too. I'm still stuck on the length of the rounds and the leade in the barrel. You could be right in your previous posts, it may just be a diameter issue, that just hasn't been my experience so far.

I'm surprised that others have been able to long load 40s in KKM barrels as mentioned. If I ever need another 40 barrel I may have to go with KKM because of this.
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