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Old 04-11-2012, 20:20   #81
rahrah12
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In a Stand Your Grown case does the prosecution have to prove that Zimmerman was nit standing his ground (the aggressor, had an opportunity to flee, whatever)...or does Zimmerman have to prove that he was in fear for his life and had no other alternative?
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:21   #82
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Originally Posted by rahrah12 View Post
In a Stand Your Grown case does the prosecution have to prove that Zimmerman was nit standing his ground (the aggressor, had an opportunity to flee, whatever)...or does Zimmerman have to prove that he was in fear for his life and had no other alternative?
It's not like there is this whole new category of case just for a "stand your ground" claim.


Have you yet read Florida's use of force/deadly force laws?
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:22   #83
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Are you referring to putting a bounty on a man's head as "relatively peaceful"?
You mean the 3 black panthers we kept seeing on TV?

I don't recall any of my black friends mounting up and riding out looking for Zimmerman...

yea, there will always be a few knuckleheads/idiots...which is why I said relatively peaceful...
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:22   #84
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If he was on the ground on his back, I think the duty to retreat absent stand your ground was moot point anyway.... unless he had a backpack drill on, he wasn't retreating anywhere..
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:24   #85
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Question for the attorneys amongst us, or those with personal experience: Do prosecutors ever charge a person with a higher crime than they have evidence for, betting that the jury will say the evidence better fits the lesser alternate charges?
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:28   #86
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Originally Posted by rahrah12 View Post
In a Stand Your Grown case does the prosecution have to prove that Zimmerman was nit standing his ground (the aggressor, had an opportunity to flee, whatever)...or does Zimmerman have to prove that he was in fear for his life and had no other alternative?
From what I understand the standard is that Zimmerman only needs to convince a judge through the preponderance of evidence that it was self defense under SYG. This is a lower standard than proving beyond a reasonable doubt it was self defense.

Seems like a tough sell to me, but maybe the prosecutors aren't in the room and his lawyers just make the case with the available evidence... judge decides.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:29   #87
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Or, could they be spiking the case by charging beyond what is provable so they can say that they tried? This prevents Mr Z from going to prison, and hopefully prevents Sanford and other places from rioting and burning. Murder 2 seems to be a real stretch given what we have heard.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:30   #88
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Zman (if he is indeed innocent) was probably better off going to jail on day 1, not saying anything at all, getting a good lawyer, and then working his way to freedom. That method certainly would have put to bed a lot of "situations" that eventually happened. However, as it stands now, he is in jail and it's going to be tough to get out even though he is innocent until proven guilty.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:32   #89
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From what I understand the standard is that Zimmerman only needs to convince a judge through the preponderance of evidence that it was self defense under SYG. This is a lower standard than proving beyond a reasonable doubt it was self defense.

Seems like a tough sell to me, but maybe the prosecutors aren't in the room and his lawyers just make the case with the available evidence... judge decides.
From what the prosecutor was saying it seemed as though you are correct that they bring it to the judge and he decides if that can be brought into the trial (last part is my speculation).

She said that they were prepared for either case.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:33   #90
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Hmmm, so some have full faith in the Sanford police department investigation but little trust in the state of FL and the special prosecution assigned by the governor?

this is why these battles are so hard and really, a jury should decide.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:33   #91
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no judge is going to throw this case out after he sees the real evidence and facts.

that's a dream.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:34   #92
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How does "GOVERNOR Corey" sound to you ?

The first female governor of Florida. Trayvon is a stepping stone.

I think Rick Scott knows what Corey wants, to be a future competitor of Rick Scott. So he throws her this bone, make it or break it. And Corey is going grab it like a football and run with it.

You guys are getting too deep in the details. Look at the big picture.

Last edited by ModGlock17; 04-11-2012 at 20:36..
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:37   #93
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Originally Posted by kensteele View Post
Zman (if he is indeed innocent) was probably better off going to jail on day 1, not saying anything at all, getting a good lawyer, and then working his way to freedom. That method certainly would have put to bed a lot of "situations" that eventually happened. However, as it stands now, he is in jail and it's going to be tough to get out even though he is innocent until proven guilty.
I think I see what you are saying but I can't agree. Every day in jail is a bad day, especially if someone is innocent. We don't know if Z is innocent or guilty, but we do have a system that supposedly presumes innocence until proven guilty. The initial State prosecutor was supposedly operating on the best info he had, which did not allow for an arrest at that time. More information has come out and the State now believes they have enough info for charges to be filed. I cannot accept that someone should be arrested if there is not enough information to support that.

We'll see what happens with the bond issue. I haven't a clue how they will proceed with that one.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:42   #94
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I think Corey is smart by not making the big decision because she may get hanged with it, so her political ambition would halt.

The only thing she CAN do, to save herself from Rick Scott's thrown bone, is to let the "jury" decides it. In doing so, she looks good to the Al sharpie & Corrine Brown crowd while the other side can't hang her with it, because she let the jury decide the case, which is the essense of our system.

I think that is smart... but what do I know?
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:49   #95
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If it is true that Zman tried to contact Corey's office last week, which I think is true, then it means that Zman was informed of the decision last week and tried to do something about it. It is also reasonable that he thinks very low of his former Counsels at that point. So he dumped them.

I knew it wasn't positive for him when he attempted to contact the SProsecutor, not because he disobeyed counsels, but because he knew something was/is wrong.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:51   #96
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Carry Issues

newest mugshot
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:57   #97
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Carry Issues

newest mugshot
Maybe CNN can update their photo file now. They were still putting up the five year old mugshot during Corey's press conference this evening.
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Old 04-11-2012, 21:06   #98
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Florida Rep. Dennis Baxley, who sponsored the "stand your ground" law in 2005, said nothing in it allows people to "pursue and confront."

I would love to hear his full opinion on this...has he said anything else?
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Old 04-11-2012, 21:52   #99
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I think I see what you are saying but I can't agree. Every day in jail is a bad day, especially if someone is innocent. We don't know if Z is innocent or guilty, but we do have a system that supposedly presumes innocence until proven guilty. The initial State prosecutor was supposedly operating on the best info he had, which did not allow for an arrest at that time. More information has come out and the State now believes they have enough info for charges to be filed. I cannot accept that someone should be arrested if there is not enough information to support that.

We'll see what happens with the bond issue. I haven't a clue how they will proceed with that one.
I absolutely agree that an arrest should not be made if there is no probable cause. But that evidence didn't just materialise out of thin air, it was always there.
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Old 04-11-2012, 21:57   #100
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Maybe CNN can update their photo file now. They were still putting up the five year old mugshot during Corey's press conference this evening.
I think you know by now the press and the media is not on Zman's side. I wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about what they do because they will surely disappoint you. In any case, to me, this current photo from today looks more like Zman's first mugshot than the smiling shirt and tie photo that some were demanding be shown to portray Zman in a more positive light. Looks like he has lost some weight. The media's job is to do whatever the owner's want and what $ell$, not appease the public.
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