[Misty02]

Originally Posted by JerryC09

I had a double bypass and went home with stitches on the outside and wire holding my ribcage together on the inside. There were large bandages and until I left the hospital I had two very large drains stuck in my chest. I think your husband was extremely fortunate rather than medical treatments being advanced as much as some might think. Or perhaps I was just really, really unfortunate. I don't know which.
However, what I did notice was that Zimmerman didn't need help getting out of the car or walking into the police station of his own accord. Physical force in Florida can't be met with deadly physical force. A fistfight is not gonna be considered a felony in Florida. With a tire iron or a screwdriver or a glass bottle? Sure you can protect youself with deadly physical force here in that case. Is Zimmerman going to be seen as being beaten near to death? I doubt it, but I guess we'll see. That section that says you can't use your concealed firearm to gain the upper hand in a fight is written in law reagarding CCW permits for some reason other than to take up space. Is that an official release of Mr Zimmerman's statement when he was taken into custody, or is he going to try to remain silent which I don't think would bode well for him at all.

Do you believe that in absence of an object being used as a weapon you have to wait until you’re beaten near death?

Not that I know this to be the case for Zimmerman, but in general terms (I saw this posted by someone else and it made perfect sense); what is the difference between having your head pounded into a paved surface and having someone hit you on the head with a brick?

In case of a physical attack by an unarmed person we must keep something in mind, the second we're unconscious we are no longer able to protect our weapon. There will always be a firearm involved in any physical confrontation we're in, one that can be used against us if we cannot prevent its use. Our job is to not find ourselves there and avoid the confrontation by all means possible. If it cannot be prevented or avoided…….. well, only you can fill in the blank and determine when the threshold has been crossed and more drastic measures are necessary to stay alive.

It is highly unlikely I'll ever find myself in a fight; if one is brought to me, I'll do everything in my power to ensure it is not a fair one and that I walk out of it in one piece.

Also, remember the statute:


776.041 Use of force by aggressor.--The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

.

[JerryC09]

I suspect if Zimmerman was getting his head pounded into the pavement he would have some difficulty expressing a desire to back off. I also can honestly say that the only time I've ever seen a fistfight in the street end with one punch it was a knockout blow. Obviously the latter didn't happen in this case, true?
You can't get a CCW in Florida and follow people around on foot and in your car, prating to yourself "I am indeed the cock 'o the walk now, because I have a gun! If anyone punches me, I'll simply scare then into submission or shoot them!" and harass people that you haven't seen commit a crime, because the statutes state you can't use your gun to gain the upper hand in a fight using physical force only. That truly is pretty cut and dried. How are you going to convince a jury that you were afraid the other guy was going to beat you until you were knocked out and then he was going to take you gun and kill you? Does anyone have access to the paramedic report regarding Zimmerman? I suspect none of that info is available to the public at this time. And there are things that kind of refute that kind of fear - hey, if you can't take a punch why the heck are you getting out of your car and following a guy 5" taller then you for a considerable period of time if you didn't see him commit a felony, and therefore don't have the right to shoot him based on your suspicions alone? Are you confident that you could take care of yourself well enough to not be beaten to death? It sounds reasonable to believe that Zimmerman figured that if Martin punched him, he'd use his gun. Either to scare Martin, or to shoot him if that failed. And that is outside the scope of you rights. Also, consider the fact that if Martin saw Zimmerman's gun and shaved head, he might figure it's a klansman stalking him with the intent to kill him and that his only chance of survival is getting the gun. It doesn't sound reasonable to believe that Zimmerman isn't capable of curling up on the ground and protecting his head, his groin and his gun, yet still wants to exit his car to follow Martin, is it? And of the police asked him for his intersection, why get out of the car anyway? Why not drive to the next corner and tell them what that is, while staying in your car, and then turn around and drive back with the police still on you speakerphone? Now if Zimmerman was a police officer and approached Martin after observing him for a while, Martin would obviously know it's the police. (And police here in Florida always call for baclkup as well, and rarely initiate contact with a suspicious person before backup arrives.) But what looks like a white guy with a shaved head and an orange coat on? Which brings up another point - a lot of posts have been wondering why Martin was wearing a hoodie, which is a lightweight jacket with a hood, down here in (kinda) warm Florida, while ignoring the fact that Zimmerman himself was wearing a jacket as well. (It can certainly feel chilly at night in March or April down here sometimes) Why is that? It certainly sounds racist, doesn't it? Or maybe more credence is being given to Zimmerman because he possessed a CCW license? That's silly - it's like saying if someone is run over and killed by someone driving a car the car driver is automatically right because he has a driver's license.
If Zimmerman was approaching Martin and Martin saw his gun, and Martin had a CCW and gun of his own, would he have been justified in immediately drawing and killing Zimmerman because he feared the "klansman" was coaming to kill him, would everyone be jumping up to defend Martin, or would Zimmerman still somehow be right in that case?
I apologise for the length of this reply, I am really astonished at the amount of things many people in this thread just continue to selectivedly ignore.
That's not referring to you, you and some others here do seem to actually have an interest in finding out what happened before screaming foul.

[JerryC09]

Originally Posted by Misty02

Do you believe that in absence of an object being used as a weapon you have to wait until you’re beaten near death?

.

I don't think that even being hit with a tire iron or a baseball mean means that for sure you are in danger of death or serious physical injury. However, it's legally presumptive evidence and if some assaults you with a object being used as a weapon you are within you rights to shoot the attacker, and I certainly would!
Of course, I also would not by any means make someone feel threatened by my own actions.

[expatman]

Originally Posted by JerryC09

I don't think that even being hit with a tire iron or a baseball mean means that for sure you are in danger of death or serious physical injury.

That is crazy talk right there! How could you not fear for your life or serious physical injury if a tire iron/big hard wooden club was swinging through the air aimed at your head?!! Those are basically the same type of weapons that man has used for centuries to kill other humans on the battlefield.

[Misty02]

We both have a lot of assumptions not into evidence, JerryC09. As previously mentioned, I’m not emotionally tied to this case; my continued interest is mostly because I wish to better understand the law and the process involved. With the few facts that have been provided by the press and the police so far, I could just as likely considered Martin acted in self-defense had he been the survivor of the confrontation.

I have a general idea of what I believe the statutes state, but I don’t have a working knowledge of them. I’m also a big believer that not everything that is legal is right just like not everything that is illegal is wrong. I have applied that one to the initial point where Zimmerman exited his vehicle, I don’t believe that was wise, but I also can’t see where that would be illegal. In my mind, the actions of both could have been legal and still a horrible tragedy have occurred. Nothing presented as fact thus far has eliminated that possibility.

Originally Posted by JerryC09

I don't think that even being hit with a tire iron or a baseball mean means that for sure you are in danger of death or serious physical injury. However, it's legally presumptive evidence and if some assaults you with a object being used as a weapon you are within you rights to shoot the attacker, and I certainly would!
Of course, I also would not by any means make someone feel threatened by my own actions.

Obviously we don’t share the same opinion where a tire iron or a baseball bat is concerned. Someone swinging either maliciously or threatening me with it will be perceived as a person(s) with the intent and capability of causing great bodily injury or death.


.

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by JerryC09

I don't think that even being hit with a tire iron or a baseball mean means that for sure you are in danger of death or serious physical injury. However, it's legally presumptive evidence and if some assaults you with a object being used as a weapon you are within you rights to shoot the attacker, and I certainly would!
Of course, I also would not by any means make someone feel threatened by my own actions.

So what you are saying is that if you were to be hit with a tire iron or ball bat, you would rely on the attacker's love of humanity and sense of fair play to not kill you right?

[JuneyBooney]

Originally Posted by Southswede

So what you are saying is that if you were to be hit with a tire iron or ball bat, you would rely on the attacker's love of humanity and sense of fair play to not kill you right?

I think that is a very prolific statement. Relying on someone's love of humanity as they are beating you with a tire iron. I have not seen many survive a beating with a tire iron.

[Warp]

Originally Posted by JerryC09

I don't think that even being hit with a tire iron or a baseball mean means that for sure you are in danger of death or serious physical injury.

This explains a lot about your posts.

Originally Posted by Misty02

Obviously we don’t share the same opinion where a tire iron or a baseball bat is concerned. Someone swinging either maliciously or threatening me with it will be perceived as a person(s) with the intent and capability of causing great bodily injury or death.


.

Which is totally appropriate.

[SCmasterblaster]

He just may be guilty of manslaughter. I don't know about murder.

[bear62]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

He just may be guilty of manslaughter. I don't know about murder.

He's guilty for having little or no common sense ......... but murder ... no way......

[BigSteven34]

I hope when all of the facts come out about this case that the outcome is the correct one. Guilty or Innocent, I hope the evidence is what convicts or clears him and not all of the emotion involved here.

[kensteele]

Originally Posted by BigSteven34

I hope when all of the facts come out about this case that the outcome is the correct one. Guilty or Innocent, I hope the evidence is what convicts or clears him and not all of the emotion involved here.

+1 hoping for the same.

[LApm9]

Originally Posted by JerryC09

I don't think that even being hit with a tire iron or a baseball mean means that for sure you are in danger of death or serious physical injury. However, it's legally presumptive evidence and if some assaults you with a object being used as a weapon you are within you rights to shoot the attacker, and I certainly would!
Of course, I also would not by any means make someone feel threatened by my own actions.

I shall be charitable!

Do you know what a tire iron is?

[IndyGunFreak]

Originally Posted by LApm9

I shall be charitable!

Do you know what a tire iron is?

I agree, that is ridiculous. I've saw some massive injuries from both tire irons and baseball bats.

[IndyGunFreak]

I was tossing a newspaper at work this morning (apparently a few days old). I rarely read the comics, but on the occasion I do, I read Mallard Fillmore is the first I check. I came across this:

[ZombieKing]

Originally Posted by JerryC09

However, what I did notice was that Zimmerman didn't need help getting out of the car or walking into the police station of his own accord.

Means nothing. His head was what was getting hit. Not his legs or spine.

Physical force in Florida can't be met with deadly physical force. A fistfight is not gonna be considered a felony in Florida.

As already explained to you in above posts physical force can be responded to with deadly force if the conditions warrant it.

In this case Zimmerman has said Martin was beating his head into the concrete sidewalk. That is deadly force Martin is using with his fists. Zimmerman can respond in kind. (this is assuming Zimmerman is telling the truth)

If someone is kicking you in the head that too can justify you using deadly force.

If someone is continuing to beat you even after you have indicated you give up, by kicking and punching you, you can use deadly force to protect yourself. Even if the only weapons that person is using to beat you with is their fists and feet.

People have been beat to death before. You don't need a weapon to do it.

Is Zimmerman going to be seen as being beaten near to death? I doubt it, but I guess we'll see.

You don't need to wait until you're near death to use deadly force in such a situation.

Zimmerman is having his head pounded. Into a concrete sidewalk. He doesn't have to wait until he's on the verge of black out or dying to use deadly force.

That section that says you can't use your concealed firearm to gain the upper hand in a fight is written in law reagarding CCW permits for some reason other than to take up space.

In a regular fight. But as we see all the time regular fights can go right from regular to someone trying to kill you.

Will you have a harder time justifying your actions? Probably. But it can be done.

Is that an official release of Mr Zimmerman's statement when he was taken into custody, or is he going to try to remain silent which I don't think would bode well for him at all.

If you've paid any attention at all you would know that MR. Zimmerman was interviewed the night of the shooting for several hours. The next day he was interviewed again and went with the police and reenacted what happened. I do believe they interviewed him a few more times after that but we don't have exact numbers.

Mr.Zimmerman has talked to the police at length about what happened that night.

[ZombieKing]

Originally Posted by JerryC09

You can't get a CCW in Florida and follow people around on foot and in your car, prating to yourself "I am indeed the cock 'o the walk now, because I have a gun! If anyone punches me, I'll simply scare then into submission or shoot them!" and harass people that you haven't seen commit a crime, because the statutes state you can't use your gun to gain the upper hand in a fight using physical force only. That truly is pretty cut and dried. How are you going to convince a jury that you were afraid the other guy was going to beat you until you were knocked out and then he was going to take you gun and kill you?

Does anyone have access to the paramedic report regarding Zimmerman?

No.

Which brings up another point - a lot of posts have been wondering why Martin was wearing a hoodie, which is a lightweight jacket with a hood, down here in (kinda) warm Florida, while ignoring the fact that Zimmerman himself was wearing a jacket as well.

It was raining that day and it was unusually cold.

I apologise for the length of this reply, I am really astonished at the amount of things many people in this thread just continue to selectivedly ignore.

You should go back and read both threads because you've missed a whole lot.

[ZombieKing]

Originally Posted by JerryC09

I don't think that even being hit with a tire iron or a baseball mean means that for sure you are in danger of death or serious physical injury.

You are in serious danger of death and serious physical injury if someone hits you full force with a tire iron or a baseball bat.

Just a person swinging it at you will justify deadly force. (assuming you're the victim in the incident)

[partridge]

This circus is getting out of hand.

http://www.loop21.com/life/paramedic...orge-zimmerman

VS.

http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2012/0...rge-zimmerman/

[DocCasualty]

Originally Posted by partridge

This circus is getting out of hand.

http://www.loop21.com/life/paramedic...orge-zimmerman

VS.

http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2012/0...rge-zimmerman/

Neither of these links say anything of substantive value.

[partridge]

Originally Posted by DocCasualty

Neither of these links say anything of substantive value.

I know. The headlines just made me laugh being exact opposites of each other.

[IndyGunFreak]

I didn't see it mentioned in the last couple pages, but did anyone see the judge recused herself?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,6653759.story

Personally, I think this is good. I was doing some searches on the new judge (Kenneth Lester). Most suggested he was extremely knowledgeable, and expected his court to run smoothly. Has been a judge since 94 in several different courts.

I personally was a bit concerned with Recksiedler's inexperience.

IGF

[Warp]

Originally Posted by partridge

This circus is getting out of hand.

http://www.loop21.com/life/paramedic...orge-zimmerman

This one still says that no injuries to the back of his head are visible on the police surveillance camera

[ZombieKing]

That's a terrible article that does nothing. Seriously that is just journalism crap 101 there.

The article doesn't even match the headline.

[IndyGunFreak]

Originally Posted by ZombieKing

That's a terrible article that does nothing. Seriously that is just journalism crap 101 there.

The article doesn't even match the headline.

Read the other "news" linked on the site and it will probably become crystal clear.