[jprj]

Today is the anniversary of the Miami shootout that is said to be the awakening for the FBI ammo selection. Also said to be the reason why the .40 was born.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

The 1986 Miami FBI Shootout - YouTube

The 1986 Miami FBI Shootout - YouTube

[Hour13]

To stare into the face of evil, and not blink...

[Adjuster]

They were not on scene but I was not aware of this from the Wiki.

"The other six agents involved in the stakeout in five vehicles, who did not reach the shootout in time to participate, did have additional weaponry including Remington shotguns, Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine guns, and M16 rifles."



/

[atmarcella]

the re-enactment was not very accurate......

[2-8 Marine]

Originally Posted by atmarcella

the re-enactment was not very accurate......

Really? Can I take it that you were there?

[2-8 Marine]

Originally Posted by Adjuster

They were not on scene but I was not aware of this from the Wiki.

"The other six agents involved in the stakeout in five vehicles, who did not reach the shootout in time to participate, did have additional weaponry including Remington shotguns, Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine guns, and M16 rifles."



/

I don't know about MP5's but M16's were available in other units.

[Hour13]

Originally Posted by atmarcella

the re-enactment was not very accurate......

Very true, but compared to the way TV/movies usually bugger up history, this one held pretty close to the facts.

They missed the mark in a few spots, and of course, the acting was god-awful. But overall, they made a pretty decent retelling. You can tell they actually read the accounts, and did some research beforehand.

The most glaring screw-up for me, was the "full-auto" Mini14.

[isuzu]

Originally Posted by jprj

Today is the anniversary of the Miami shootout that is said to be the awakening for the FBI ammo selection. Also said to be the reason why the .40 was born.

Or the 10mm?

[michael e]

Originally Posted by isuzu

Or the 10mm?

10mm was out before this.

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by michael e

10mm was out before this.

True. Aug 9, 1945 Nagasaki. First public use of the 10mm.



Or so I am told...

[michael e]

That only happends if more than 2 10mms are fired at the same time.

[jprj]

Originally Posted by isuzu

Or the 10mm?

Both. 10mm was developed and then was revised a bit, which became the .40

[Allegra]

why where they blaming the 9mm?
the other guy had an assault rifle
if the bad guy was armed w/ a pistol , results might have been different

[2-8 Marine]

Originally Posted by Allegra

why where they blaming the 9mm?
the other guy had an assault rifle
if the bad guy was armed w/ a pistol , results might have been different

Simply put, the 9mm supposedly lacked penetration and stopping power.

[glockaviator]

The bad guy with the Mini 14 sure was hard to stop. (my reaction was "where is my shotgun?")

[dude.bandit]

Poor agents.. maybe if they are all aggressive enough, they could have shot more ammo all together and be able to bring down the BG's faster.

[Billy10mm]

The 10mm was around before this incident and had been previously looked at by the FBI. After the poor performance of the .38 specials and 9mm in this shootout, they took another look at the 10mm but after a period of trials, realized that many agents simply did not shoot it as well as they did the 9mm. Reasons were the large size of the guns that chambered the round and the extra recoil. S&W saw this as an opportunity and shortened the 10mm case and flat-nosed the bullets to make a 10mm "light" that had the same overall length as the 9mm. That is how what we now know as the .40S&W, was born.

Bigger, heavier bullets that penetrated more, in a handgun the same size as what agents were already using.

[atmarcella]

i couldnt understand why they had 38special rounds loaded in their 357's???

[Caustic Mopar]

There is a story on this in one of the Glock Annuals. Reason for the switch away from 9mm is reportedly, the one bad guy was shot early on in the fight the 9mm bullet went in through his ribs and lung stopping about 2 inches from his heart. The almost fatal shot in the side happened before most if the fatal/ critical wounds suffers by the FBI agents.


Studies showed with a more powerful round the gunfight would have ended sooner therefore saving the agents lives.
Sorry about the spelling and punctuation. Using my cell phone.

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[Deployment Solu]

Originally Posted by Hour13

Very true, but compared to the way TV/movies usually bugger up history, this one held pretty close to the facts.

They missed the mark in a few spots, and of course, the acting was god-awful. But overall, they made a pretty decent retelling. You can tell they actually read the accounts, and did some research beforehand.

The most glaring screw-up for me, was the "full-auto" Mini14.

You do know that Ruger made a select fire Mini14 for a number of years for LE/Mil?? (Full Auto/Semi). Not too much of a stretch for the bad guys to get one. They usually steal what they have.

[Bren]

Originally Posted by atmarcella

the re-enactment was not very accurate......

That looked like a scene from the TV movie, but I've also had classes on the FBI report and official reenactment (and I used to have a copy of the FBI's reenactment - still do somewhere) and the TV one was pretty close on the important points.

I believe it is incorrect to have the Mini-14 firing full auto, since the one in the real case didn't, but that isn't very significant to the story unless you're using it to illustrate some NFA issue.

[2-8 Marine]

Originally Posted by atmarcella

i couldnt understand why they had 38special rounds loaded in their 357's???

Less recoil, less over penetration of the target. Back then, .38 spl was the standard issue of many departments still armed with revolvers even though the issue weapons may have been chambered for .357.

[2-8 Marine]

[QUOTE=Bren;18865261]That looked like a scene from the TV movie, but I've also had classes on the FBI report and official reenactment (and I used to have a copy of the FBI's reenactment - still do somewhere) and the TV one was pretty close on the important points.

QUOTE]

After the shootout, most Law Enforcement Agencies held classes on the FBI report and viewed their reenactment of the incident. I too have a copy of the FBI reenactment and agree that the TV movie version was if not the best acting, pretty darn accurate.

[LAWDOGKMS]

[quote=2-8 Marine;18865422]

Originally Posted by Bren

That looked like a scene from the TV movie, but I've also had classes on the FBI report and official reenactment (and I used to have a copy of the FBI's reenactment - still do somewhere) and the TV one was pretty close on the important points.

QUOTE]

After the shootout, most Law Enforcement Agencies held classes on the FBI report and viewed their reenactment of the incident. I too have a copy of the FBI reenactment and agree that the TV movie version was if not the best acting, pretty darn accurate.

Yes...but way too long...the whole shootout took about 1/4 the time depicted in this clip IIRC..

[Natty]

Originally Posted by 2-8 Marine

Simply put, the 9mm supposedly lacked penetration and stopping power.

At that time the FBI load was a Winchester Silvertip JHP 115gr.

The first gunshot wound that hit Platt was this round. Platt was sideways exiting the window of the car. It went through his right upper arm and completely penetrated his right lung and stopped one inch from his heart.

After this hit, which the medical examiner said would have eventually killed him, Platt continued to maneuver and fire at the FBI agents.

Blaming the 9mm round detracted from the multiple errors the agents made during this event.