[Hour13]

Just want to see what you guys suggest for a good HD round in .223/5.56?

I have tons of M855 on hand, but hardly what I'd want to fire off in my house should the need arise. "Barrier Penetrator" ammo is hardly ideal for my neighbors, lol.

And... noise. With the layout of my house, in a HD situation, I'd likely end up firing from my rather narrow hallway, towards front of house. Being that donning ear protection isn't very likely, and suppressors are not an option, low/minimal noise levels would be ideal. The ears I have are my only pair!

So minimal noise, light grain, and soft/hollow-point, any suggestions?

Sorry if this should be in caliber corner, it is specifically for my ARs though!

[bigmoney890]

I have vaulted ceilings and the echo is tremendous throughout my house, so this would be the same criteria for myself. Hope you get some good feedback!

[Cole125]

Take a look at Hornady 55gr V-max, it is not going to over penetrate, as soon as it impacts anything it will go "poof".

As far as noise, I have shot my AR without earplugs and its bearable. Your ears should be the last thing you are worries about when your saving your own life with your gun.

[Hour13]

Originally Posted by Cole125

Take a look at Hornady 55gr V-max, it is not going to over penetrate, as soon as it impacts anything it will go "poof".

Good idea man, I'll check it out.

Originally Posted by Cole125

As far as noise, I have shot my AR without earplugs and its bearable. As have I, but not in my narrow hallway! Your ears should be the last thing you are worries about when your saving your own life with your gun.

I couldn't agree more, which is why I'm thinking about it now, before I may need it. If I can load my "bedside" AR with something that may cause less permanent damage to my ears, all the better!

[countrygun]

My .223 is loaded with Hornaday TAP

[TSAX]

The TAP here as well.

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by Cole125

Take a look at Hornady 55gr V-max, it is not going to over penetrate, as soon as it impacts anything it will go "poof".

As far as noise, I have shot my AR without earplugs and its bearable. Your ears should be the last thing you are worries about when your saving your own life with your gun.

It also can fail to penetrate deep enough to reach vitals, depending on angle. The V-Max was designed for rapid expansion in varmint animals for a quick kill, not designed for the slightly deeper penetration needed against two-legged threats.

The best ammo depends on your barrel length and twist rate. Assuming 16" barrel and no slower than a 1:9 twist, look at the 55-69 grain soft points and OTM loads. While something in the 70+ grain range is ideal, the Federal 62 grain soft point (FBI load), 55 grain Speed Gold Dot, and the Winchester Ranger 64gr soft points, or the new Mk. 318 SOST load will all perform quite well. Heck, even 55gr ball ammo will work pretty well from a 16" barrel at HD distances, although not as well through barriers. Avoid anything ballistic-tipped, as most ballistic tip loads (coughtapfpdcough) are varmint-hunting bullets repackaged as SD/HD loads.

Even though it's on the dreaded Arfcom, check out this link.

[CDW4ME]

.223 / AR HD load: maybe the Barnes TSX or Federal Fusion.

[plouffedaddy]

I used to have 55gr TAP; it's a great round but I've since switched to 75gr BTHP TAP. They're totally different rounds but I was just worried about underpenetration so I switched it up. The 75gr rounds seem to not overpenetrate but still go a little deeper according to www.le.atk.com which provides a lot of ballistics for quality defensive ammo.

I'm sure either would be a good choice though; I wouldn't want to be shot with either

[DieselNut]

Getcha some Zombie Max.

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by CDW4ME

.223 / AR HD load: maybe the Barnes TSX or Federal Fusion.

Both are excellent choices, actually. I'd love to get my hands on a good stock of the 70 grain TSX loads, but the few companies making brown tip clones are asking an arm and a leg for them. I'll happily stick with the 75gr TAP T2s in the meantime.

Originally Posted by plouffedaddy

I used to have 55gr TAP; it's a great round but I've since switched to 75gr BTHP TAP. They're totally different rounds but I was just worried about underpenetration so I switched it up. The 75gr rounds seem to not overpenetrate but still go a little deeper according to www.le.atk.com which provides a lot of ballistics for quality defensive ammo.

I'm sure either would be a good choice though; I wouldn't want to be shot with either

I wouldn't either, but I'm far more comfortable staking my life behind the 75gr TAP T2. Even the TAP FPD in 75 grain is supposed to be respectable.

Originally Posted by DieselNut

Getcha some Zombie Max.

[Airhasz]

[QUOTE=WoodenPlank;18829574]Both are excellent choices, actually. I'd love to get my hands on a good stock of the 70 grain TSX loads, but the few companies making brown tip clones are asking an arm and a leg for them. I'll happily stick with the 75gr TAP T2s in the meantime.



I wouldn't either, but I'm far more comfortable staking my life behind the 75gr TAP T2. Even the TAP FPD in 75 grain is supposed to be respectable.



[/QUOTE
Plank, how about that Zombie Max...lol...just in case but seriously...what is your take?

[DScottHewitt]

Originally Posted by Hour13

Just want to see what you guys suggest for a good HD round in .223/5.56?

I have tons of M855 on hand, but hardly what I'd want to fire off in my house should the need arise. "Barrier Penetrator" ammo is hardly ideal for my neighbors, lol.

And... noise. With the layout of my house, in a HD situation, I'd likely end up firing from my rather narrow hallway, towards front of house. Being that donning ear protection isn't very likely, and suppressors are not an option, low/minimal noise levels would be ideal. The ears I have are my only pair!

So minimal noise, light grain, and soft/hollow-point, any suggestions?

Sorry if this should be in caliber corner, it is specifically for my ARs though!

Supposedly, M193 and M855 break up in drywall and other wall construction materials.

[bmoore]

Originally Posted by DieselNut

Getcha some Zombie Max.

Vmax with a different color polymer tip.

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by DScottHewitt

Supposedly, M193 and M855 break up in drywall and other wall construction materials.

M193 will after a couple of walls, assuming those walls are spaced per normal room dimensions, and not 10 layers of drywall in a box to "simulate" 5 walls. Both will likely tumber after striking an interior wall, and that tumbling will either cause them to begin to break up, or at least start losing velocity very quickly.

M855 is generally a bad idea for HD. It's notorious for not consistently fragmenting, and for not tumbling enough to fragment until it has completely exited a BG.

Originally Posted by Airhasz

Plank, how about that Zombie Max...lol...just in case but seriously...what is your take?

Originally Posted by bmoore

Vmax with a different color polymer tip.

This, and a big fat warning on the box that says "Not for use on humans."

Yeah, I can imagine how good THAT would look in court when you used it to shoot someone in self defense.

[Big A]

My Stag has a 1:9 twist rate so I have two mags of 60gr Hornady TAP...

I keep a few loaded with XM193 close by as wel but my AR is not my go to for home defense, My Glock 23 is.

[.50 cal]

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank

Both are excellent choices, actually. I'd love to get my hands on a good stock of the 70 grain TSX loads, but the few companies making brown tip clones are asking an arm and a leg for them. I'll happily stick with the 75gr TAP T2s in the meantime.



I wouldn't either, but I'm far more comfortable staking my life behind the 75gr TAP T2. Even the TAP FPD in 75 grain is supposed to be respectable.

If your AR can stabilize them the 75g Hornady T2s are Highly recommended, I can't find any in stock now, anyone know who has them in stock?

[Cole125]

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank

It also can fail to penetrate deep enough to reach vitals, depending on angle. The V-Max was designed for rapid expansion in varmint animals for a quick kill, not designed for the slightly deeper penetration needed against two-legged threats.

The best ammo depends on your barrel length and twist rate. Assuming 16" barrel and no slower than a 1:9 twist, look at the 55-69 grain soft points and OTM loads. While something in the 70+ grain range is ideal, the Federal 62 grain soft point (FBI load), 55 grain Speed Gold Dot, and the Winchester Ranger 64gr soft points, or the new Mk. 318 SOST load will all perform quite well. Heck, even 55gr ball ammo will work pretty well from a 16" barrel at HD distances, although not as well through barriers. Avoid anything ballistic-tipped, as most ballistic tip loads (coughtapfpdcough) are varmint-hunting bullets repackaged as SD/HD loads.

Even though it's on the dreaded Arfcom, check out this link.

Good point. I know they are far from humans but the coyotes I have shot with V-max dropped in their tracks, and the wounds from V max are large and nasty, I would imagine it would do similar to humans.

I agree there are better options out there as you mentioned if fear of over penetration are not as great.

[Cole125]

Originally Posted by Big A

My Stag has a 1:9 twist rate so I have two mags of 60gr Hornady TAP...

I keep a few loaded with XM193 close by as wel but my AR is not my go to for home defense, My Glock 23 is.

Same here, my first choice for inside the house HD is my Glock 19 or Mossberg 500, but if its a problem outside my house the AR is coming out.

[moishlashen]

TAP also. My AR is stashed so as others have stated I have several Glocks to get me to the rifle if necessary.

[FireForged]

My AR with a muzzle break is easily the loundest thing Ive got. I would really hate to fire it indoors. My hd gun is a SW model 10 38special.

[Hour13]

Thanks guys, alot of good info! Should've specified too, 16" 1:7 twist.

Looks like I've got some shopping to do! Probably pick up some drywall sections from Depot for my next range trip & do some tests.

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by .50 cal

If your AR can stabilize them the 75g Hornady T2s are Highly recommended, I can't find any in stock now, anyone know who has them in stock?

No clue, honestly. I came across some after a shop in my home town scored a few cases of it. I got a case for myself, and split a second case with my dad.

Originally Posted by Hour13

Thanks guys, alot of good info! Should've specified too, 16" 1:7 twist.

Looks like I've got some shopping to do! Probably pick up some drywall sections from Depot for my next range trip & do some tests.

Like I mentioned earlier, don't stack 10 sections of drywall 1" apart and think that's a solid test. Set them up like a house would be - 2 sheets spaced for one wall, then a second "wall" 10-30 feet away, depending on how big of a room you want to simulate. You'll be surprised what the impact on the second "wall" looks like with most loads.

[bmoore]

Originally Posted by Cole125

Good point. I know they are far from humans but the coyotes I have shot with V-max dropped in their tracks, and the wounds from V max are large and nasty, I would imagine it would do similar to humans.

I agree there are better options out there as you mentioned if fear of over penetration are not as great.

Your not shooting them behind the shoulder then. Vmax's are designed to save pelts. Tiny hole in, with no exit. They work extremely well when placed just behind the shoulder. The big nasty splash wounds are when big bone is hit, thats not how they are designed to work. Dime sized entrance, no exit. Vmax's would be my last choice for defense. Pointed soft points, JHP and FMJ would be a better choice.

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by bmoore

Your not shooting them behind the shoulder then. Vmax's are designed to save pelts. Tiny hole in, with no exit. They work extremely well when placed just behind the shoulder. The big nasty splash wounds are when big bone is hit, thats not how they are designed to work.

Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible to place precision shots like that in a HD/SD scenario. What happens when a VMAX strikes a human sternum or rib? I'd much rather use something I know will reach vitals.