GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-10-2012, 06:41   #1
seanmac45
CLM Number 38
Charter Lifetime Member
 
seanmac45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 5,790


WHY We Need To Be Aggresive

Brothers,


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47001462.../#.T4Qm4tXrR8E


I'm retired now, and the way I did business on the streets is not politically correct any more. I can understand why some of you are concerned about litigation and Internal Affairs. It's a tough, second guessing arena out there today. BUT if I were to put a uniform on again tomorrow my style would not change one iota.

I started every single contact with Sir or Ma'am until given a reason to do otherwise. You were afforded the opportunity to go into cuffs peacefully ONCE. After that it was hammer time.

Niccolo Machiavelli was a man ahead of his time. From this arises the question whether it is better to be loved rather than feared, or feared rather than loved. It might perhaps be answered that we should wish to be both: but since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved.

It's not a kinder, safer society out there no matter what the major crime indexes would lead you to believe. Hidden within those falling crime stats are WAY too many Officer deaths and critical injuries.

Don't worry about the Kenpo's of the world. THEY don't do the job. YOU do and you have every right to go home to your family at the end of the day that every other person in this country possesses.

Don't become a statistic. Do everything you can to go home at the end of your shift. When it's time to go hands on GO FULL THROTTLE. Anything less is a disservice to those who love you.

Stay Safe,

Sean
__________________
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway
seanmac45 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 07:17   #2
indigent
Bamboozled
 
indigent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tx
Posts: 3,022
Well said Sir!!

I happened to glance over the preview of the comments left to the MSNBC article. Those right there should tell you how the public feels....

Circle the wagons boys, it's gonna get worse before it gets better.
__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
indigent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 07:46   #3
CJStudent
Fenced In
 
CJStudent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KY
Posts: 17,461
Send a message via AIM to CJStudent Send a message via Yahoo to CJStudent
Thanks, Seanmac.
__________________
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas Edison

Quote:
Originally Posted by series1811 View Post
The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
CJStudent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 08:20   #4
c01
Crazy Eye
 
c01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Spokane
Posts: 531
Blog Entries: 1
Those comments are off the hook...yikes.
c01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 08:22   #5
MeefZah
Cover is Code 3
 
MeefZah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3,504
You rock brother, well said!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
"No amount of indoctrination or textbook learning will in themselves develop more than efficient mediocrity. Operations should be handled with a combination of force, subtlety, shrewdness, guile, and knowledge born of actual experience." - DF
MeefZah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 08:33   #6
x_out86
Senior Member
 
x_out86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,102
Thanks for the reminder to always be a warrior.

I didnt get past the first 3 or 4 comments. It is always a sad reminder of how much the internet has enabled those who sit in a dark room and hate all that is good, to be able to publicize their hateful rhetoric.
__________________
Hellen Keller:
I long to accomplish a great and noble tasks, but it is my chief duty to accomplish humble tasks as though they were great and noble. The world is moved along, not only by the mighty shoves of its heroes, but also by the aggregate of the tiny pushes of each honest worker.
x_out86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 09:39   #7
RocPO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stacked up on your door
Posts: 893
Mind if I print that out and put it up in the locker room of the stationhouse?
RocPO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 09:46   #8
G21FAN
Useless loser
 
G21FAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,284
Send a message via ICQ to G21FAN
It is necessary to be aggressive when situations warrant it, but also remember that not all contacts are violent felons. Be polite and respectfull until/if aggression is called for.

Doesn't hurt to call him sir when you are piling on a violent one either...
__________________
NREMT-P, AL state EMT-P, ACLS, BTLS, PALS, PHTLS 1991-2006

In the South, we didn't turn our swords into plowshares. We turned our church bells into guns.
(The Elderly Kid)

Last edited by G21FAN; 04-10-2012 at 09:47..
G21FAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 09:51   #9
Mattz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 903
Good post, and I agree. I tend to have the same attitude and mentality when it comes to this job... I often see guys who are hesitant to react to hooks on the street in a proper way, because administrations, media and society have set a precedent of hanging cops out to dry. Too sad.
Mattz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 10:06   #10
Ajon412
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NJ. Don't hold it against me
Posts: 3,606
Well said and an excellent reminder that the important thing is to go home at the end of your shift in the same condition you came to work.....We must do everything in our power to accomplish this......NO MATTER WHAT......
__________________
"A man's got to know his limitations."-Harry Callahan
“...Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing”
“The difficult is what takes a little time. The impossible is what takes a little longer.”
Ajon412 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 10:10   #11
seanmac45
CLM Number 38
Charter Lifetime Member
 
seanmac45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 5,790


Quote:
Originally Posted by RocPO View Post
Mind if I print that out and put it up in the locker room of the stationhouse?
I'd be honored if you did, sir.
__________________
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway
seanmac45 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 10:38   #12
packsaddle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,111
Quote:
When it's time to go hands on GO FULL THROTTLE. Anything less is a disservice to those who love you.
I think I just found my new sig line.

Thanks.
packsaddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 10:46   #13
Kadetklapp
Methberry PD
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,603
There has to be a happy medium. We cannot do this job without the support of the public. I am not saying we should cowtoe to their every demand, anyone who has seen my posting history in here knows that. But we have to find common ground with the people we serve.
Kadetklapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 11:06   #14
smokeross
GTDS Member #49
 
smokeross's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,144
You don't have to beat the **** out of everyone you meet to go home safely at night. Wrong attitude. We all want you to return to your family in one piece, but use a fair amount of discretion please. I'm guessing you are fairly new at this, or just still a youngster.
__________________
Originally Posted by GTFor died instantly because his lungs froze from breathing in Arctic air.
Shoot Low Boys, They're Riding Shetland Ponies.
smokeross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 11:12   #15
Kadetklapp
Methberry PD
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeross View Post
You don't have to beat the **** out of everyone you meet to go home safely at night. Wrong attitude. We all want you to return to your family in one piece, but use a fair amount of discretion please. I'm guessing you are fairly new at this, or just still a youngster.
NO one said that. That is nothing less than hyperbole.
Kadetklapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 12:59   #16
Ohio Copper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: In the hood
Posts: 3,965
Excellent post, sir! Thank you!


Sent from my Calculator.
Ohio Copper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 15:28   #17
DaBigBR
No Infidels!
 
DaBigBR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Circling the wagons.
Posts: 15,886
Well put, Sean.
__________________
"Logic is rarely the engine that propels a police department forward."

-David Simon in "Homicide"
DaBigBR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 18:21   #18
RocPO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stacked up on your door
Posts: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeross View Post
You don't have to beat the **** out of everyone you meet to go home safely at night. Wrong attitude. We all want you to return to your family in one piece, but use a fair amount of discretion please. I'm guessing you are fairly new at this, or just still a youngster.
I've read and reread that a couple of times now. Maybe I'm missing where he stated that?

Sean has been retired for several years now, as I recall. Which definately takes him out of the "new" or "youngster" category.
RocPO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 18:32   #19
4949shooter
Senior Member
 
4949shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Jersey Republik
Posts: 12,804


Good post Sean.

I had some stuff to add, but there could be an internal so I will keep quiet for now.
__________________
"...the men under your command deserve your leadership."-OXCOPS
4949shooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 18:33   #20
kayl
Senior Member
 
kayl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SE WI
Posts: 398
Fantastic post!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
Remember your equipment, every day. Check your cars, every day. Be ready for the suck, EVERY DAY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian944 View Post
If I saw a guy robbing a bank I would get on my horse and cut his head off with my katana.
kayl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 18:39   #21
4949shooter
Senior Member
 
4949shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Jersey Republik
Posts: 12,804


Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeross View Post
You don't have to beat the **** out of everyone you meet to go home safely at night. Wrong attitude. We all want you to return to your family in one piece, but use a fair amount of discretion please. I'm guessing you are fairly new at this, or just still a youngster.
He is responding to an anti LEO attitude by posters on a different thread. Some of these anti LEO's are of the opinion we should take a less direct approach to policing America's streets. The fact is, to stay alive we have to be one step ahead of people who wish to do us harm. If that means some people need a dose of force used against them then so be it.
__________________
"...the men under your command deserve your leadership."-OXCOPS
4949shooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 18:50   #22
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,548
Yes!

There are certain segments of this society (those that wear rose coloured glasses and also the cop-haters) that want LE to be watered down. Only problem is, the BGs are not watering down their nonsense.

LEOs being the "nice guy" inappropriately gets them injured or killed all the time. The FBI's LEOKA studies bear this out, and we see this everyday.

LEOs should be friendly, but NEVER FORGET they're never out there to be everyone's friend.
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.

Last edited by Patchman; 04-10-2012 at 18:54..
Patchman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 18:53   #23
seanmac45
CLM Number 38
Charter Lifetime Member
 
seanmac45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 5,790


Some excellent reading in; Killed in the Line of Duty: A Study of Selected Felonious Killings of Law Enforcement Officers. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice by Pinizzotto, Anthony J. and Davis, Edward F. (1992). In it, their profile of the typical cop killed in the line of duty reads like a bio of one of today's Community Policing advocates.

I'll see if I can find my copy and post it.
__________________
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

Last edited by seanmac45; 04-10-2012 at 18:54..
seanmac45 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 19:00   #24
Vigilant
Senior Member
 
Vigilant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Inside the Perimeter
Posts: 8,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmac45 View Post
Brothers,


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47001462.../#.T4Qm4tXrR8E


I'm retired now, and the way I did business on the streets is not politically correct any more. I can understand why some of you are concerned about litigation and Internal Affairs. It's a tough, second guessing arena out there today. BUT if I were to put a uniform on again tomorrow my style would not change one iota.

I started every single contact with Sir or Ma'am until given a reason to do otherwise. You were afforded the opportunity to go into cuffs peacefully ONCE. After that it was hammer time.

Niccolo Machiavelli was a man ahead of his time. From this arises the question whether it is better to be loved rather than feared, or feared rather than loved. It might perhaps be answered that we should wish to be both: but since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved.

It's not a kinder, safer society out there no matter what the major crime indexes would lead you to believe. Hidden within those falling crime stats are WAY too many Officer deaths and critical injuries.

Don't worry about the Kenpo's of the world. THEY don't do the job. YOU do and you have every right to go home to your family at the end of the day that every other person in this country possesses.

Don't become a statistic. Do everything you can to go home at the end of your shift. When it's time to go hands on GO FULL THROTTLE. Anything less is a disservice to those who love you.

Stay Safe,

Sean
The kenpos of the world seem to be multiplying like rabbits. I don't see it getting any better for the next generation or two at least, if we're even still here. This country is circling the drain.

To paraphrase, I believe your bottom line is, to be as nice as they let you be, or as mean as it takes to go home in one piece. Their choice. Unfortunately, kum bah yah is the way of life inside the fence as well in most places around here.
__________________
Illegitimi non carborundum
Vigilant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 19:01   #25
Patchman
Florist
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merriweather
Posts: 11,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmac45 View Post
Some excellent reading in; Killed in the Line of Duty: A Study of Selected Felonious Killings of Law Enforcement Officers. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice by Pinizzotto, Anthony J. and Davis, Edward F. (1992). In it, their profile of the typical cop killed in the line of duty reads like a bio of one of today's Community Policing advocates.

I'll see if I can find my copy and post it.
Or you can order a hard copy (photocopy).

National Crime Justice Reference Service
PO Box 6000
Rockville, MD 20849
1-800-851-3420

Back in December of 2009, the cost was $20.

139198 "Killed in the Line of Duty. A Study of Selected Felonious Killings of Law Enforcement Officers"
__________________
Sounds like he has nothing left but be a monkey's uncle. It's not like he's got a monkey's manhood left.

And thank YOU for being perfect, all the time, every time. Go forth and reproduce. We need more of you.

Last edited by Patchman; 04-10-2012 at 19:04..
Patchman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:22.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 850
289 Members
561 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42