Glock Talk
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04-10-2012, 06:41
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#1
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CLM Number 38
Charter Lifetime Member
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 5,316
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WHY We Need To Be Aggresive
Brothers,
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47001462.../#.T4Qm4tXrR8E
I'm retired now, and the way I did business on the streets is not politically correct any more. I can understand why some of you are concerned about litigation and Internal Affairs. It's a tough, second guessing arena out there today. BUT if I were to put a uniform on again tomorrow my style would not change one iota.
I started every single contact with Sir or Ma'am until given a reason to do otherwise. You were afforded the opportunity to go into cuffs peacefully ONCE. After that it was hammer time.
Niccolo Machiavelli was a man ahead of his time. From this arises the question whether it is better to be loved rather than feared, or feared rather than loved. It might perhaps be answered that we should wish to be both: but since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved.
It's not a kinder, safer society out there no matter what the major crime indexes would lead you to believe. Hidden within those falling crime stats are WAY too many Officer deaths and critical injuries.
Don't worry about the Kenpo's of the world. THEY don't do the job. YOU do and you have every right to go home to your family at the end of the day that every other person in this country possesses.
Don't become a statistic. Do everything you can to go home at the end of your shift. When it's time to go hands on GO FULL THROTTLE. Anything less is a disservice to those who love you.
Stay Safe,
Sean
__________________
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway
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04-10-2012, 07:17
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#2
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Bamboozled
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tx
Posts: 2,760
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Well said Sir!!
I happened to glance over the preview of the comments left to the MSNBC article. Those right there should tell you how the public feels....
Circle the wagons boys, it's gonna get worse before it gets better.
__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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04-10-2012, 07:46
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#3
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Fenced In
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KY
Posts: 16,136
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Thanks, Seanmac. 
__________________
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas Edison
Quote:
Originally Posted by series1811
The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
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04-10-2012, 08:20
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#4
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Crazy Eye
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Spokane
Posts: 425
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Those comments are off the hook...yikes.
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04-10-2012, 08:22
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#5
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Cover is Code 3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of Philly
Posts: 3,411
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You rock brother, well said!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
"No amount of indoctrination or textbook learning will in themselves develop more than efficient mediocrity. Operations should be handled with a combination of force, subtlety, shrewdness, guile, and knowledge born of actual experience." - DF
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04-10-2012, 08:33
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 910
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Thanks for the reminder to always be a warrior.
I didnt get past the first 3 or 4 comments. It is always a sad reminder of how much the internet has enabled those who sit in a dark room and hate all that is good, to be able to publicize their hateful rhetoric.
__________________
Hellen Keller:
I long to accomplish a great and noble tasks, but it is my chief duty to accomplish humble tasks as though they were great and noble. The world is moved along, not only by the mighty shoves of its heroes, but also by the aggregate of the tiny pushes of each honest worker.
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04-10-2012, 09:39
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stacked up on your door
Posts: 871
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Mind if I print that out and put it up in the locker room of the stationhouse?
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04-10-2012, 09:46
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#8
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Useless loser
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,226
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It is necessary to be aggressive when situations warrant it, but also remember that not all contacts are violent felons. Be polite and respectfull until/if aggression is called for.
Doesn't hurt to call him sir when you are piling on a violent one either... 
Last edited by G21FAN; 04-10-2012 at 09:47..
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04-10-2012, 09:51
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 852
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Good post, and I agree. I tend to have the same attitude and mentality when it comes to this job... I often see guys who are hesitant to react to hooks on the street in a proper way, because administrations, media and society have set a precedent of hanging cops out to dry. Too sad.
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04-10-2012, 10:06
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,205
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Well said and an excellent reminder that the important thing is to go home at the end of your shift in the same condition you came to work.....We must do everything in our power to accomplish this......NO MATTER WHAT......
__________________
"A man's got to know his limitations."-Harry Callahan
"Nearly all men can stand adversity. But if you want to test a man's character - give him power"-Abraham Lincoln
“...Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing”
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04-10-2012, 10:10
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#11
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CLM Number 38
Charter Lifetime Member
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 5,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocPO
Mind if I print that out and put it up in the locker room of the stationhouse?
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I'd be honored if you did, sir.
__________________
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway
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04-10-2012, 10:38
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,099
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Quote:
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When it's time to go hands on GO FULL THROTTLE. Anything less is a disservice to those who love you.
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I think I just found my new sig line.
Thanks.
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04-10-2012, 10:46
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#13
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Methberry PD
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,541
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There has to be a happy medium. We cannot do this job without the support of the public. I am not saying we should cowtoe to their every demand, anyone who has seen my posting history in here knows that. But we have to find common ground with the people we serve.
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04-10-2012, 11:06
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#14
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GTDS Member #49
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 3,236
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You don't have to beat the **** out of everyone you meet to go home safely at night. Wrong attitude. We all want you to return to your family in one piece, but use a fair amount of discretion please. I'm guessing you are fairly new at this, or just still a youngster.
__________________
Originally Posted by GTFor died instantly because his lungs froze from breathing in Arctic air.
Shoot Low Boys, They're Riding Shetland Ponies.
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04-10-2012, 11:12
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#15
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Methberry PD
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeross
You don't have to beat the **** out of everyone you meet to go home safely at night. Wrong attitude. We all want you to return to your family in one piece, but use a fair amount of discretion please. I'm guessing you are fairly new at this, or just still a youngster.
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NO one said that. That is nothing less than hyperbole.
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04-10-2012, 12:59
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#16
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STOP RESISTING!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: In the hood
Posts: 2,232
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Excellent post, sir! Thank you!
Sent from my Calculator.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheriff733
Did he have a warrant to use that taser?
From what I've learned in the Boston bombing threads, you must always have a warrant. For anything.
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04-10-2012, 15:28
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#17
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No Infidels!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Circling the wagons.
Posts: 15,300
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Well put, Sean.
__________________
"Logic is rarely the engine that propels a police department forward."
-David Simon in "Homicide"
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04-10-2012, 18:21
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stacked up on your door
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeross
You don't have to beat the **** out of everyone you meet to go home safely at night. Wrong attitude. We all want you to return to your family in one piece, but use a fair amount of discretion please. I'm guessing you are fairly new at this, or just still a youngster.
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I've read and reread that a couple of times now. Maybe I'm missing where he stated that?
Sean has been retired for several years now, as I recall. Which definately takes him out of the "new" or "youngster" category. 
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04-10-2012, 18:32
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Jersey Republik
Posts: 11,960
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Good post Sean.
I had some stuff to add, but there could be an internal so I will keep quiet for now.
__________________
"...the men under your command deserve your leadership."-OXCOPS
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04-10-2012, 18:33
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SE WI
Posts: 390
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Fantastic post!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
Remember your equipment, every day. Check your cars, every day. Be ready for the suck, EVERY DAY.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian944
If I saw a guy robbing a bank I would get on my horse and cut his head off with my katana.
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04-10-2012, 18:39
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Jersey Republik
Posts: 11,960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeross
You don't have to beat the **** out of everyone you meet to go home safely at night. Wrong attitude. We all want you to return to your family in one piece, but use a fair amount of discretion please. I'm guessing you are fairly new at this, or just still a youngster.
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He is responding to an anti LEO attitude by posters on a different thread. Some of these anti LEO's are of the opinion we should take a less direct approach to policing America's streets. The fact is, to stay alive we have to be one step ahead of people who wish to do us harm. If that means some people need a dose of force used against them then so be it.
__________________
"...the men under your command deserve your leadership."-OXCOPS
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04-10-2012, 18:50
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#22
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Florist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merryweather
Posts: 9,342
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Yes!
There are certain segments of this society (those that wear rose coloured glasses and also the cop-haters) that want LE to be watered down. Only problem is, the BGs are not watering down their nonsense.
LEOs being the "nice guy" inappropriately gets them injured or killed all the time. The FBI's LEOKA studies bear this out, and we see this everyday.
LEOs should be friendly, but NEVER FORGET they're never out there to be everyone's friend.
__________________
There are at least two sides to every story. I just heard yours and, indeed, you appear to be the victim. But I can't stop wondering what the other side has to say. :dunno:
In a gun fight, even doing everything right can still get you killed.
Last edited by Patchman; 04-10-2012 at 18:54..
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04-10-2012, 18:53
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#23
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CLM Number 38
Charter Lifetime Member
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 5,316
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Some excellent reading in; Killed in the Line of Duty: A Study of Selected Felonious Killings of Law Enforcement Officers. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice by Pinizzotto, Anthony J. and Davis, Edward F. (1992). In it, their profile of the typical cop killed in the line of duty reads like a bio of one of today's Community Policing advocates.
I'll see if I can find my copy and post it.
__________________
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway
Last edited by seanmac45; 04-10-2012 at 18:54..
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04-10-2012, 19:00
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Inside the Perimeter
Posts: 7,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmac45
Brothers,
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47001462.../#.T4Qm4tXrR8E
I'm retired now, and the way I did business on the streets is not politically correct any more. I can understand why some of you are concerned about litigation and Internal Affairs. It's a tough, second guessing arena out there today. BUT if I were to put a uniform on again tomorrow my style would not change one iota.
I started every single contact with Sir or Ma'am until given a reason to do otherwise. You were afforded the opportunity to go into cuffs peacefully ONCE. After that it was hammer time.
Niccolo Machiavelli was a man ahead of his time. From this arises the question whether it is better to be loved rather than feared, or feared rather than loved. It might perhaps be answered that we should wish to be both: but since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved.
It's not a kinder, safer society out there no matter what the major crime indexes would lead you to believe. Hidden within those falling crime stats are WAY too many Officer deaths and critical injuries.
Don't worry about the Kenpo's of the world. THEY don't do the job. YOU do and you have every right to go home to your family at the end of the day that every other person in this country possesses.
Don't become a statistic. Do everything you can to go home at the end of your shift. When it's time to go hands on GO FULL THROTTLE. Anything less is a disservice to those who love you.
Stay Safe,
Sean |
The kenpos of the world seem to be multiplying like rabbits. I don't see it getting any better for the next generation or two at least, if we're even still here. This country is circling the drain.
To paraphrase, I believe your bottom line is, to be as nice as they let you be, or as mean as it takes to go home in one piece. Their choice. Unfortunately, kum bah yah is the way of life inside the fence as well in most places around here.
__________________
Illegitimi non carborundum
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04-10-2012, 19:01
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#25
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Florist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merryweather
Posts: 9,342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmac45
Some excellent reading in; Killed in the Line of Duty: A Study of Selected Felonious Killings of Law Enforcement Officers. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice by Pinizzotto, Anthony J. and Davis, Edward F. (1992). In it, their profile of the typical cop killed in the line of duty reads like a bio of one of today's Community Policing advocates.
I'll see if I can find my copy and post it.
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Or you can order a hard copy (photocopy).
National Crime Justice Reference Service
PO Box 6000
Rockville, MD 20849
1-800-851-3420
Back in December of 2009, the cost was $20.
139198 "Killed in the Line of Duty. A Study of Selected Felonious Killings of Law Enforcement Officers"
__________________
There are at least two sides to every story. I just heard yours and, indeed, you appear to be the victim. But I can't stop wondering what the other side has to say. :dunno:
In a gun fight, even doing everything right can still get you killed.
Last edited by Patchman; 04-10-2012 at 19:04..
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