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Old 04-06-2012, 18:39   #1
ColbyoneKenobie
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My issue with purchasing a 1911

Ok here we go...


I want a Sig 1911 but just purchased a Gen 4 Glock 17. I know they are two different beasts, however, I want something that will go bang under stress...

I worry about the thumb safety for me, or my girlfriend, In a time of stress.

Is this a legitimate concern or is it simple enough to bypass, learn, or just keep switched off?
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Old 04-06-2012, 18:42   #2
faawrenchbndr
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It will become second nature to flick off the TS,.....just takes trigger time.
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Old 04-06-2012, 18:54   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
It will become second nature to flick off the TS,.....just takes trigger time.
Correct, practice, practice, practice!
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Old 04-06-2012, 19:13   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
It will become second nature to flick off the TS,.....just takes trigger time.
This
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Old 04-06-2012, 19:22   #5
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Agreed... However, I we all hope we train enough for an emergency situation... what about our loved ones that pick up the weapon with minimal training?
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Old 04-06-2012, 19:31   #6
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anyone who will be operating a firearm needs training. there is more than just pulling the trigger. hitting the bad guy vs hitting your neighbor.
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Old 04-06-2012, 20:05   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
It will become second nature to flick off the TS,.....just takes trigger time.
Exactly
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Old 04-06-2012, 20:40   #8
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The frame mounted thumb safety is very second nature, very natural to operate. Now the slide mounted safety is the greatest crime against handguns in history......that is such a un-natural movement to flip those things off IMO......
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Old 04-06-2012, 20:46   #9
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I'm so used to 1911 thumb safety,I find myself flicking it off when shooting my new Glock.

It really does get to be second nature at some point.
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Old 04-06-2012, 21:23   #10
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A lot of dry practice, the 1911 takes more training than a Glock (this is just my opinion). I would get really proficent with the Glock first then transition to the 1911 platform this is just my opinion.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:54   #11
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Originally Posted by dakrat View Post
anyone who will be operating a firearm needs training. there is more than just pulling the trigger. hitting the bad guy vs hitting your neighbor.
This is the important thing you need to understand.
Besides that...
What if you need a gun in a hurry and all that's there is a gun with a thumb safety?
You have to be familiar with more than just the Glock type of handgun.
Whatever gun you have, it needs to be second nature to you and her.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:07   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColbyoneKenobie View Post
Agreed... However, I we all hope we train enough for an emergency situation... what about our loved ones that pick up the weapon with minimal training?
In a very high-stress situation, people unfamiliar with using a weapon, a handgun especially, are just as likely to hurt themselves as an attacker. If you care about those people, get them to learn how to use guns, even if it's just the very basics.

If you watch new shooters at public ranges, some of the things they do are scary- waving guns around with fingers on triggers, dangerously loose grips and poor stances, etc. Now imagine tons of adrenaline and panic thrown into the mix.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:09   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColbyoneKenobie View Post
Ok here we go...


I want a Sig 1911 but just purchased a Gen 4 Glock 17. I know they are two different beasts, however, I want something that will go bang under stress...

I worry about the thumb safety for me, or my girlfriend, In a time of stress.

Is this a legitimate concern or is it simple enough to bypass, learn, or just keep switched off?
In the same sense, many people are afraid of Glocks because they don't have an external safety. With EITHER platform, take some classes and put at least 1000 rounds through the 1911 initially. This will at least get you started on getting comfy with the platform before using it for self defense.

Last edited by MD357; 04-07-2012 at 08:12..
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:12   #14
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I carry both (Glocks and 1911's) concealed. (No, not at the same time...)

I shoot both religiously, but before I leave the house, I perform a few draw strokes and a few tactical reloads to make sure I program my brain as to which pistol I am carrying.

The more good practice you have, the deeper the muscle memory becomes. Do you shoot your 1911 with your thumbs on top of the safety?

I normally steer female clients away from a 1911 if they are not going to shoot at least 1 x a month. The Glock will server her proudly. From what I have read on the Internet, you can own more than one pistol.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:13   #15
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Keep the 1911 in Condition 3, rack the slide, keep your finger off the trigger and the thumb safety doesn't even come into play. If you do apply the safety then you make a mental note that the safety is now on and will need to be pushed off before you can fire. Nothing hard about that. Just takes a little practice. If you can't or won't adapt then buy a revolver.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:20   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TN.Frank View Post
Keep the 1911 in Condition 3, rack the slide, keep your finger off the trigger and the thumb safety doesn't even come into play. If you do apply the safety then you make a mental note that the safety is now on and will need to be pushed off before you can fire. Nothing hard about that. Just takes a little practice. If you can't or won't adapt then buy a revolver.

I disagree with comment 1, wholeheartedly agree with comment 2.

You should be the master of your weapon, avoiding safety / operational features of a weapon IMHO is not a good idea. Perhaps Frank was just trying to give you an alternative.

On the revolver issue, Yes Sir! I always recommend a J or K frame for most female clients, even the Taurus revolvers are worth having. I used to recommend the Colt Detective six shots on a small frame, but had too many crap the bed and go out of timing.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:24   #17
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What about a series 80 1911?
You can keep the trigger down and simply cock it as needed.
But that still requires practice and awareness.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:39   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TN.Frank View Post
Keep the 1911 in Condition 3, rack the slide, keep your finger off the trigger and the thumb safety doesn't even come into play. If you do apply the safety then you make a mental note that the safety is now on and will need to be pushed off before you can fire. Nothing hard about that.

Just want to let the OP know that this type of carry philosophy can be very cumbersome if not dangerous unless you have trained extensively for this method. It adds a number of variables you need to be exposed to.

To me casually suggesting Condition 3 is irresponsible and shows an amount of inexperience in SD training from the person suggesting it.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:43   #19
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To me casually suggesting Condition 3 is irresponsible and shows an amount of inexperience in SD training from the person suggesting it.
Once again a dig at me from you for simply trying to be helpful. I've trained in Condition 3 carry, pulling the pistol and racking the slide is second nature to me but maybe not for you. Different strokes for different folks.
I guess if a thumb safety and a 1911 are just too hard for the OP to get use to then maybe he should stick with his Glock then.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:54   #20
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Originally Posted by TN.Frank View Post
Once again a dig at me from you for simply trying to be helpful. I've trained in Condition 3 carry, pulling the pistol and racking the slide is second nature to me but maybe not for you. Different strokes for different folks.
I guess if a thumb safety and a 1911 are just too hard for the OP to get use to then maybe he should stick with his Glock then.
Sorry Frank, but you aren't being helpful here and you admittedly do NOT shoot very much. Sometimes it's just best to remain quiet when you admittedly do NOT have the experience to comment for the safety of others.

Like I said, casually suggesting Carry 3 to someone new to SD is irresponsible and someone suggesting it hasn't had much time at the range in practicing SD scenarios. Otherwise, they'd see that Condition 1 is MUCH faster and safer in my book and the the teachings of many acredited instructors. All it takes is a fundamental assessment of the way the 1911 was designed.

If you're not understanding what I'm saying, then to put it bluntly, it's harder to be proficient with carry 3 than it is with carry 1. Anyone is welcome to time themselves at the range to test this theory. Not saying it can't be done, saying it takes a good amount of training. There are a LOT of people that think they are proficient out there and are not.

Last edited by MD357; 04-07-2012 at 08:59..
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:57   #21
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When I had a 1911 I carried it with the thumb safety on. I no longer have one, but in retrospect, was the thumb safety even necesary? I suspect a 1911 will not fire without the trigger pulled back and the grip safety depressed. Is that correct?
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:01   #22
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Sorry Frank, but you aren't being helpful here and you admittedly do NOT shoot very much any more.
There, fixed it for ya' since you THINK you know so much about ME but really don't. Back when I had the funds and lived in AZ where we could actually go out into the desert and shoot we'd put about 5000 rounds a month through all manner of firearms. Also shot a lot of 50BMG when I worked for McMillian Arms building the M-88 50cals, probably 500 rounds a week for the year that I was there. Guess that ain't shooting very much in your book though.
Bottom line, you don't know me so don't comment about me.

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When I had a 1911 I carried it with the thumb safety on. I no longer have one, but in retrospect, was the thumb safety even necesary? I suspect a 1911 will not fire without the trigger pulled back and the grip safety depressed. Is that correct?
Nope, not safe at all. The Grip Safety can be depressed very easily and may allow the gun to go off inadvertently. With the Thumb Safety on you not only block the Sears but also the Hammer and there's no way in heck that it'll go off. Condition 1 is perfectly safe for carry unless you forget to disengage the safety during a high stress situation. Practice is key, if you won't practice then carry a revolver, they go bang pretty much every time.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:03   #23
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Originally Posted by JerryC09 View Post
When I had a 1911 I carried it with the thumb safety on. I no longer have one, but in retrospect, was the thumb safety even necesary? I suspect a 1911 will not fire without the trigger pulled back and the grip safety depressed. Is that correct?
If it is perfect working order that is correct.


FWIW, to the OP, anyone that takes decent handgun course with a 1911 should have no problem being able to switch off the TS automatically after a good amount of presentations.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:07   #24
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Originally Posted by dakrat View Post
anyone who will be operating a firearm needs training. there is more than just pulling the trigger. hitting the bad guy vs hitting your neighbor.
This.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:13   #25
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There, fixed it for ya' since you THINK you know so much about ME but really don't. Back when I had the funds and lived in AZ where we could actually go out into the desert and shoot we'd put about 5000 rounds a month through all manner of firearms. Also shot a lot of 50BMG when I worked for McMillian Arms building the M-88 50cals, probably 500 rounds a week for the year that I was there. Guess that ain't shooting very much in your book though.
Bottom line, you don't know me so don't comment about me.
Just going on your previous comments on shooting 1911s in which your experiences seem to "evolve" when questioned. Shooting BMG doesn't really translate here anwyays.

Either way, back to the OP's question can you post how many steps Condition 3 requires relative Condition 1 and how that complicates things under stress? Let's think about the basics..... if he's worried about his GF switching off a TS, then racking the slide, while drawing and aquiring a target will be considerably MORE complicated.

This is basic knowledge.
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