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Old 04-03-2012, 14:42   #1
DannyR
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Frame Mods Still A No-No!

When the Gen3's came out, many, including myself, did not like the finger grooves. I asked GSSF several years ago if I could remove them. The answer was no, except for Unlimited Category. Now that we have Gen4's with a smaller grip, I asked GSSF if I could do a grip reduction on my trusty Gen2, just to match the size of a Gen4. Again, the answer is no, except for Unlimited. Bottom line, NO FRAME MODIFICATIONS!

This is not a subject for debate. It's GSSF's game and GSSF's rules. It is that simple. Nothing to argue about or debate. Just play by the rules. The beauty of GSSF is the simplicity of the sport. Stock means Stock. If you modify the frame or the slide, it's Unlimited or nothing at all.
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Old 04-03-2012, 14:51   #2
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Danny that's why they call it "STOCK", LOL
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:47   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyR View Post
When the Gen3's came out, many, including myself, did not like the finger grooves. I asked GSSF several years ago if I could remove them. The answer was no, except for Unlimited Category. Now that we have Gen4's with a smaller grip, I asked GSSF if I could do a grip reduction on my trusty Gen2, just to match the size of a Gen4. Again, the answer is no, except for Unlimited. Bottom line, NO FRAME MODIFICATIONS!

This is not a subject for debate. It's GSSF's game and GSSF's rules. It is that simple. Nothing to argue about or debate. Just play by the rules. The beauty of GSSF is the simplicity of the sport. Stock means Stock. If you modify the frame or the slide, it's Unlimited or nothing at all.
I would have never known that had you not posted this Danny, Thanks.

So, stipling of the frame would fall in the same catagory right?

I wonder, "Why isn't this covered in the RO Briefing?"
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:58   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockrunner View Post
I would have never known that...

So, stipling of the frame would fall in the same catagory right?

I wonder, "Why isn't this covered in the RO Briefing?"
Now Bob, you know that those 0800 briefings frequently don't get rolling until 0820-0830 - and that leaves perhaps 1/2 hour for the brief before the ROs should be on the line with the first shot downrange.

Barring more formal training, GSSF will have to continue to expect that ROs come to the table with basic rule knowledge. Lots of stuff to know though, and that's why an educated shooter can help themselves out at these matches.

So the mantra continues for ROs and non-ROs alike - read the rules.

But to specifically address your question:
40.40
Specific Illegal Modifications in the “Stock” Divisions:

1. Any non-post and notch sight. This includes “Ghost Ring” or laser, electronic and optical sights. Please note that fiber-optic and express sights are permitted.
2. Wrap-around “grip sleeves” on magazines.
3. Aftermarket component parts to be used in the Amateur-Civilian, Amateur-Guardian, Amateur and Master-Subcompact, Amateur and Master- Heavy Metal, Amateur and Master-Stock, or Amateur and Master-Competition divisions..
4. Aftermarket barrels.
5. Aftermarket recoil spring guide/recoil reducer assemblies.
6. Aftermarket extended slide stop levers.
7. Firing pins (modified/aftermarket).
8. Connectors (modified/aftermarket).
9. Metallic magazine well “funnels” or “slugs.”
10. Lights or other barrel weights including GLOCK-produced light/laser units.
11. Aftermarket metallic replacement frames.
12. Any modification deemed by the Range Master to create an unfair competitive advantage.
13. Non-factory “stippling.”(Stippling that is burned or cut into the polymer frame)

BTW, are you and Pat coming to Reevesville?
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Old 04-08-2012, 13:11   #5
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Yes we'll be there
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Old 04-08-2012, 13:16   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockrunner View Post
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Are you wearing a dress and shoot too?????

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Old 04-08-2012, 14:15   #7
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So, are you saying that they have a "Stock Answer" to this question?
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Old 04-08-2012, 14:26   #8
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yes, we have a stock answer, and there will be strong language in next year's 2013 Glock report defining stock frames.
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Old 04-08-2012, 15:12   #9
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yes, we have a stock answer, and there will be strong language in next year's 2013 Glock report defining stock frames.
What did you do Danny; stir the pot over in Mecca?
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Old 04-08-2012, 15:59   #10
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Why should they allow grip reductions just because gen4 is SF? Want a smaller grip, buy a SF/gen4 gun. That way GSSF helps sell more Glocks.


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Old 04-08-2012, 16:02   #11
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I can see both sides, but I don't understand how someone can read the explanation of the reasoning behind the rules and then ask about exceptions. Pretty much any exceptions would void the entire basis of "stock".
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Old 04-08-2012, 16:42   #12
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You know there are some on here that are always trying to bend the rules! They ask the same question(s) several different ways.

It is good that next year's 2013 Glock report will be defining stock frames. Maybe that will stop some of the questions and people will stop trying to bend the rules.
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Old 04-08-2012, 17:20   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don At PC View Post
Are you wearing a dress and shoot too?????

Don
I used to wear a dress almost every day to work in, why stop now?
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Old 04-08-2012, 17:21   #14
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...It is good that next year's 2013 Glock report will be defining stock frames. Maybe that will stop some of the questions and people will stop trying to bend the rules.
But, but, but... no one actually reads the rules.
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Old 04-08-2012, 18:34   #15
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Applying skateboard tape to the frame is modifying frame in my eyes. But it is legal.
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Old 04-08-2012, 18:40   #16
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Applying skateboard tape to the frame is modifying frame in my eyes. But it is legal.
Like Agrip and a Hogue grip sleeve, it's non-permanent / removable.
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Old 04-08-2012, 18:47   #17
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Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
Now Bob, you know that those 0800 briefings frequently don't get rolling until 0820-0830 - and that leaves perhaps 1/2 hour for the brief before the ROs should be on the line with the first shot downrange.

Barring more formal training, GSSF will have to continue to expect that ROs come to the table with basic rule knowledge. Lots of stuff to know though, and that's why an educated shooter can help themselves out at these matches.

So the mantra continues for ROs and non-ROs alike - read the rules.

But to specifically address your question:
40.40
Specific Illegal Modifications in the “Stock” Divisions:

1. Any non-post and notch sight. This includes “Ghost Ring” or laser, electronic and optical sights. Please note that fiber-optic and express sights are permitted.
2. Wrap-around “grip sleeves” on magazines.
3. Aftermarket component parts to be used in the Amateur-Civilian, Amateur-Guardian, Amateur and Master-Subcompact, Amateur and Master- Heavy Metal, Amateur and Master-Stock, or Amateur and Master-Competition divisions..
4. Aftermarket barrels.
5. Aftermarket recoil spring guide/recoil reducer assemblies.
6. Aftermarket extended slide stop levers.
7. Firing pins (modified/aftermarket).
8. Connectors (modified/aftermarket).
9. Metallic magazine well “funnels” or “slugs.”
10. Lights or other barrel weights including GLOCK-produced light/laser units.
11. Aftermarket metallic replacement frames.
12. Any modification deemed by the Range Master to create an unfair competitive advantage.
13. Non-factory “stippling.”(Stippling that is burned or cut into the polymer frame)

BTW, are you and Pat coming to Reevesville?
Interesting, I recently posted a question about whether or not it was illegal to do a trigger guard undercut and was told that it is absolutely 100% illegal. These rules don't seem to address that issue. The closest provision against such a modification would be #12 and only that because it is so vague. Before I get flamed, I have already decided not to do this, but I'm curious where/if the rules address that particular modification.
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Old 04-08-2012, 19:37   #18
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Originally Posted by TexasGlockster View Post
Interesting, I recently posted a question about whether or not it was illegal to do a trigger guard undercut and was told that it is absolutely 100% illegal. These rules don't seem to address that issue. The closest provision against such a modification would be #12 and only that because it is so vague. Before I get flamed, I have already decided not to do this, but I'm curious where/if the rules address that particular modification.
Rule 40.40 only serves to offer examples of non-approved modifications, not serve as the list of all exclusions to Stock.

If you look at Rule 40.20, the last paragraph reads:

"If any component is not, nor has ever been available from GLOCK, or if the firearm has been physically modified except as otherwise specifically noted below, it is not "stock" and is therefore restricted to use in the Amateur and Master-Unlimited division only."

The specific rule that it is referencing with the wording "except as otherwise specifically noted below" is Rule 40.30: Allowable Modifications to "Stock". In the body of this rule, there is no provision listed for any such frame modifications, so therefore, such modifications aren't legal for "Stock".

I hope this helps.
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Old 04-08-2012, 21:13   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Kargoh View Post
Applying skateboard tape to the frame is modifying frame in my eyes. But it is legal.
True but you are not altering the frame permanently, I think that's the differance.
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Old 11-20-2012, 23:13   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Njanear View Post
Rule 40.40 only serves to offer examples of non-approved modifications, not serve as the list of all exclusions to Stock.

If you look at Rule 40.20, the last paragraph reads:

"If any component is not, nor has ever been available from GLOCK, or if the firearm has been physically modified except as otherwise specifically noted below, it is not "stock" and is therefore restricted to use in the Amateur and Master-Unlimited division only."

The specific rule that it is referencing with the wording "except as otherwise specifically noted below" is Rule 40.30: Allowable Modifications to "Stock". In the body of this rule, there is no provision listed for any such frame modifications, so therefore, such modifications aren't legal for "Stock".

I hope this helps.


Can somebody please copy and paste the actually applicable GSSF rules here? I can't get the GSSF pdf file to open on my stupid computer. Thanks! Last i knew "AGrip (tm) was specifically specified as legal for stock Glock GSSF competition.
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