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Old 04-14-2012, 09:22   #681
ArmaGlock
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Originally Posted by merlynusn View Post
That affidavit seems really off. If I talk to the defendant/suspect I always put what they state in the affidavit and why I deemed what they said incompatible with the facts. So they are including that Zimmerman said he shot Martin, but not that he lost sight of him and walked back to his car. That Martin confronted him? That he was going for his gun? They definitely use inflammatory language such as "Zimmerman profiled Martin."

If that affidavit is the basis for their PC, I don't see how he will be convicted.
Read the last sentence of the affidavit.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:02   #682
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Originally Posted by ArmaGlock View Post
LMAO, please provide a link to where you read about these 200 kids she tried????
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/edit...-getting-tough

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Nearly 230 juvenile felony cases went to adult court in 2009, twice as many as in past years.

If people are hurt in violent crimes, their pain is no less intense and the economic losses are no less severe just because the assailant was a juvenile.

And, despite these accomplishments, the office has fewer staffers than before - 324 now, compared to more than 380 when Corey took office.
I think she picks easy cases to win and drops ones that will be a hard fight.

Yet this shooting will be a hard fight.

I also think that we as police officers have a right to look at the all the information released now and comment based on our knowledge. I felt every officer had a right to comment when the FBI/DOJ/Holder/POTUS got involved and brought the local PD a Civil Rights violation investigation and information was publicly released (911 calls, PD reports, etc).

I review complaints, work with our DA, and present felony cases and most death cases to our Grand Jury. I am a supervisor and work as a Detective. I would never let that Probable Cause affidavit be approved. I would also have some exculpatory evidence mentioned, as we should list the main facts and what we did as police, not list silly things like a mother knew it was her son screaming on a 911 call that was far from the phone.

I know where I work, we file what charges we want and the DA then reviews them. The only time our DA office comes in is a major crime that might have legal issues. My city is not micro managed by a DA office.

But when your PC is a mother knew her sons scream, that make it fair in court to play 5 screams and have the mother say "yes, that one is my sons scream, I know his scream".

There was about a 50% match to Zimmerman's voice. If Zimmerman were to scream, would it be a 90% or higher match? Did witensses that were interviewed on T.V. give a different account?

From where I sit, based on what facts I know, Corey and her investigators with 71 years are not acting in the intrest of justice, they are puppets of the Martin camp at face value.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:35   #683
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Originally Posted by Cav View Post
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/edit...-getting-tough



I think she picks easy cases to win and drops ones that will be a hard fight.

Yet this shooting will be a hard fight.

I also think that we as police officers have a right to look at the all the information released now and comment based on our knowledge. I felt every officer had a right to comment when the FBI/DOJ/Holder/POTUS got involved and brought the local PD a Civil Rights violation investigation and information was publicly released (911 calls, PD reports, etc).

I review complaints, work with our DA, and present felony cases and most death cases to our Grand Jury. I am a supervisor and work as a Detective. I would never let that Probable Cause affidavit be approved. I would also have some exculpatory evidence mentioned, as we should list the main facts and what we did as police, not list silly things like a mother knew it was her son screaming on a 911 call that was far from the phone.

I know where I work, we file what charges we want and the DA then reviews them. The only time our DA office comes in is a major crime that might have legal issues. My city is not micro managed by a DA office.

But when your PC is a mother knew her sons scream, that make it fair in court to play 5 screams and have the mother say "yes, that one is my sons scream, I know his scream".

There was about a 50% match to Zimmerman's voice. If Zimmerman were to scream, would it be a 90% or higher match? Did witensses that were interviewed on T.V. give a different account?

From where I sit, based on what facts I know, Corey and her investigators with 71 years are not acting in the intrest of justice, they are puppets of the Martin camp at face value.
What in that article makes you think she picks easy cases? She's filing more cases and taking more to trial. That doesn't support your assumption.

You obviously don't understand what our juvenile violent crime is like. I can't and won't comment on other jurisdictions but we have some violent "kids" here. And many are repeat offenders. I don't mean any disrespect, we're on the same team, but you don't work in the area. What's being reported by the media on our juvenile crime doesn't even begin to explain it.

I understand the concerns with the affidavit. I'll wait until all of the facts come out to pass judgement on Zimmerman. And before I slam a lady that has proven her integrity to us her entire career.

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Old 04-14-2012, 13:30   #684
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Originally Posted by merlynusn View Post
That affidavit seems really off. If I talk to the defendant/suspect I always put what they state in the affidavit and why I deemed what they said incompatible with the facts. So they are including that Zimmerman said he shot Martin, but not that he lost sight of him and walked back to his car. That Martin confronted him? That he was going for his gun? They definitely use inflammatory language such as "Zimmerman profiled Martin."

If that affidavit is the basis for their PC, I don't see how he will be convicted.
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Originally Posted by ArmaGlock View Post
Read the last sentence of the affidavit.
The last sentence of the affidavit seems off to me too, as does the whole thing. But that isn't much of a surprise. The whole case is lacking anything but political motivation......
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Old 04-14-2012, 16:45   #685
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That was a weak affidavit and was obviously signed for political reasons.

I am another who would like to hear the actual evidence in this case. Unfortunately we will have to wait...
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Old 04-14-2012, 18:41   #686
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That was a weak affidavit and was obviously signed for political reasons.

I am another who would like to hear the actual evidence in this case. Unfortunately we will have to wait...
Any idea as to the timeline for the trail? When is it looking to get started?

I have only a vague notion of the bureaucracy of justice, having participated only in the jury selection and once at that. But it strikes me the actual trial (if it doesn't get tossed) is months away.

Maybe that is the game plan - have the trial so far down the road people's attention span will be directed elsewhere like..um..an election?
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Old 04-14-2012, 21:51   #687
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Any idea as to the timeline for the trail? When is it looking to get started?

I have only a vague notion of the bureaucracy of justice, having participated only in the jury selection and once at that. But it strikes me the actual trial (if it doesn't get tossed) is months away.

Maybe that is the game plan - have the trial so far down the road people's attention span will be directed elsewhere like..um..an election?
Some of the other guys here believe the trial will be in October. I agree, this thing won't be a rush to judgement.
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Old 04-14-2012, 22:14   #688
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Some of the other guys here believe the trial will be in October. I agree, this thing won't be a rush to judgement.
Florida has a statute of 175 days for a speedy trial in a felony case.
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Old 04-14-2012, 22:25   #689
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Florida has a statute of 175 days for a speedy trial in a felony case.
Okay thanks. That must be how they came up with October.
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Old 04-15-2012, 05:54   #690
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Please share with me about Angela Corey. I read that her conviction rate was a little better than some other SA's. But she also tried over200 kids and adults and got convictions that padded her stats. I think its neat that she tries 12 year olds as adults and get them years in prision, but dont agree with that myself. I read that she has tried hundreds of homicides, and found out she has just over 50 death cases she has worked. She did set free a few self defense shootings, that seemed worst than this case.

What makes her good or great? Her Probale Cause Affidavit I thought was a joke at first, from the charges to the wording, to a lack of facts.

I would fear for justice in FL and question how many people she put in jail who never should have beeen charged.

If you think trying a juvenile as an adult is somehow easier than trying an adult, so it pads her statistics, you have a very, very wrong idea of how the legal system works.

I'm glad somebody had the guts to try a 12-year-old multiple murderer as an adult and I'd see the little POS executed if it was up to me.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:00   #691
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Originally Posted by mrdann View Post
Where did she learn to write a PC? That's a nice little narrative, full of speculation and biased semantics, but where are the elements of the crime?

The whole things a crap buffet, and there's plenty for everyone...dig in!
I find it hard to believe that her investigators said "Matin was profiled by George Zimmerman." That seems more like something a "community organizer" would say to the news cameras.

Yeah, it was kind of crappy, but apparently good enough.
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Old 04-15-2012, 07:34   #692
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Originally Posted by rahrah12 View Post
It could be him on the sidewalk with only Trayvon's side of the story...

I'd take free and alive even if I have to worry about the black panthers...
Not when you have a family to worry about. Thankfully he doesn’t have children to worry about (that I know of).

If I had to pick between the safety of my children and grandchildren or being in jail/prison, it would be an easy pick for me. Their safety comes first, above everything and anyone (including my own). If it was just my husband and I, we might discuss it, I might still do the same.

.
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Old 04-15-2012, 07:48   #693
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http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2...unethical.html

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“Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge,” Dershowitz said. “There’s simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder.”
Click on the video to hear his comments.

.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:09   #694
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Not when you have a family to worry about. Thankfully he doesn’t have children to worry about (that I know of).

If I had to pick between the safety of my children and grandchildren or being in jail/prison, it would be an easy pick for me. Their safety comes first, above everything and anyone (including my own). If it was just my husband and I, we might discuss it, I might still do the same.

.
Like I said in the other thread...Going to trial might've been the best alternative for Z...if he is innocent and it can be proven/defended.

Most of the outrage that I have seen was in the fact that he was not arrested.

But like I initially said, I'd rather be alive than dead with only Trayvon telling his side of the story...
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:35   #695
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If you think trying a juvenile as an adult is somehow easier than trying an adult, so it pads her statistics, you have a very, very wrong idea of how the legal system works.
What makes juveniles harder to try? How many days to weeks do the cases last?
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:45   #696
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Originally Posted by ArmaGlock View Post
Read the last sentence of the affidavit.
I read the entire affidavit. As a detective, I would NEVER give an affidavit that crappy. That has to be one of the worst ones I've read for a murder charge. What makes it even worse is that they two investigators have so much LE and homicide experience. They should know what is needed in an affidavit for 2nd Degree Murder.

They completely leave out many pertinent facts. I love the "this isn't all the information" line. Yeah no kidding. How about the kid's dad saying that it isn't his scream? How about Zimmerman's claims? The only thing they put in there that Zimmerman said was "I shot him in the chest." They then leave out the rest of the sentence "in self defense."

The words they used like "profiled" and "engaged in a confrontation" are hot button words. Yes, there was a confrontation. Zimmerman says Martin started it. Is there a witness who saw Zimmerman start it? If so, why wasn't that stated? If they have a witness who saw Z start it, then that is pertinent information for the development of PC for the charge. But it wasn't included.
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:49   #697
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I find it hard to believe that her investigators said "Matin was profiled by George Zimmerman." That seems more like something a "community organizer" would say to the news cameras.

Yeah, it was kind of crappy, but apparently good enough.
Most places do complaints with in hours or days of a crime. Here they had many weeks and more evidence than most have when doing a complaint.

Yet, when 71 years of experiance puts that the mother heard the screams and knew it was her son as part of the Probable Cause for the arrest, I feel rather strong about saying they messed up. They would have been better saying that Zimmermans voice on 911 was compaired to scream heard on 911 and there was only about a 50% match by experts, leaving open that it was Trayvon and not Zimmermans screams.

Based on the arrest being made based on the mother hearing screams, in the back ground of a 911 call, where the caller was inside, subject was outside, and there were buildings on each side to alter the sounds, it opens the defense to have the mother listen to 5 screams and pick which one she "knows" is her son. The defense needs to have Zimmerman scream and have his scream compaired to the 911 scream.

IMHO it was dumb to use the mother knowing her sons scream as probable case. I would never let one of my officer turn in a complaint that read like that, even not knowing what happened.

I also feel that leaving out all exculpatory evidence in a complaint is criminal.

The complaint I think should have been more than the two pages in this case. At my work we never mention our training and experiance for a arrest complaint, we list facts that support our charges, and if we talk to the suspect we list some of what they said for a defense.
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:52   #698
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Not when you have a family to worry about. Thankfully he doesn’t have children to worry about (that I know of).

If I had to pick between the safety of my children and grandchildren or being in jail/prison, it would be an easy pick for me. Their safety comes first, above everything and anyone (including my own). If it was just my husband and I, we might discuss it, I might still do the same.

.
Just the way you put that, it kind of sounds like you'd think about leaving your husband to the mercy of the muggers, and not risk jail intervening to help him like you would for your kids...

Randy

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Old 04-15-2012, 11:41   #699
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Just the way you put that, it kind of sounds like you'd think about leaving your husband to the mercy of the muggers, and not risk jail intervening to help him like you would for your kids...

Randy

Now, stop that! (it did sound that way, didn't it?) But, I did say “we” would discuss it, as we discuss any big decision that would have a serious impact in our lives, but that I might still do the same for him regardless.

Now, for my kids and grandkids? There would be no discussion. I would do what I believe it is in their best interest, even if in the process of doing so I increase the risk to myself and my husband. He’s always known that and I expect him to do the same thing, even if he fails to make me see what he sees at the time.

.
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:51   #700
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I find both your comments interesting and educational as respect the process. It also supports, and further elaborates on what I’ve read from experts thus far.

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Originally Posted by merlynusn View Post
I read the entire affidavit. As a detective, I would NEVER give an affidavit that crappy. That has to be one of the worst ones I've read for a murder charge. What makes it even worse is that they two investigators have so much LE and homicide experience. They should know what is needed in an affidavit for 2nd Degree Murder.

They completely leave out many pertinent facts. I love the "this isn't all the information" line. Yeah no kidding. How about the kid's dad saying that it isn't his scream? How about Zimmerman's claims? The only thing they put in there that Zimmerman said was "I shot him in the chest." They then leave out the rest of the sentence "in self defense."

The words they used like "profiled" and "engaged in a confrontation" are hot button words. Yes, there was a confrontation. Zimmerman says Martin started it. Is there a witness who saw Zimmerman start it? If so, why wasn't that stated? If they have a witness who saw Z start it, then that is pertinent information for the development of PC for the charge. But it wasn't included.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cav View Post
Most places do complaints with in hours or days of a crime. Here they had many weeks and more evidence than most have when doing a complaint.

Yet, when 71 years of experiance puts that the mother heard the screams and knew it was her son as part of the Probable Cause for the arrest, I feel rather strong about saying they messed up. They would have been better saying that Zimmermans voice on 911 was compaired to scream heard on 911 and there was only about a 50% match by experts, leaving open that it was Trayvon and not Zimmermans screams.

Based on the arrest being made based on the mother hearing screams, in the back ground of a 911 call, where the caller was inside, subject was outside, and there were buildings on each side to alter the sounds, it opens the defense to have the mother listen to 5 screams and pick which one she "knows" is her son. The defense needs to have Zimmerman scream and have his scream compaired to the 911 scream.

IMHO it was dumb to use the mother knowing her sons scream as probable case. I would never let one of my officer turn in a complaint that read like that, even not knowing what happened.

I also feel that leaving out all exculpatory evidence in a complaint is criminal.

The complaint I think should have been more than the two pages in this case. At my work we never mention our training and experiance for a arrest complaint, we list facts that support our charges, and if we talk to the suspect we list some of what they said for a defense.
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