GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-25-2012, 09:56   #626
ZombieKing
Senior Member
 
ZombieKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahrah12 View Post
Apparently

The attorney for Trayvon Martin, Benjamin Crump, said on the radio that Trayvon was NOT shot in the chest and was shot in the back of the head...

Would be very strange that this info is just now getting released...but why would he say that?
I have a hard time believing that since everything has said Trayvon was shot in the chest.

I also read a CNN article that backs up Assad Ayoob's blog about the gun and how it had not cycled to get a new round meaning most likely they were fighting over the gun. That makes it more likely that Martin was shot in the front of his chest (or even his head) and was not shot in the back of the head.

And honestly I'd ignore any attorney for Martin's family and for Zimmerman's family.
__________________
Chuck Norris isn't afraid of 10mm.
Chuck Norris IS 10mm.
Every 10mm fired has a pin drop of Chuck Norris sweat placed inside it during the manufacture of said round. This most holy of sweat is what gives the 10mm its power. -- Said by me ;)
ZombieKing is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:59   #627
ZombieKing
Senior Member
 
ZombieKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
Although not against the law, I still believe this shooting was preventable by Zimmerman not getting out of his vehicle and trying to see where Martin went. It is quite possible that nothing he did was illegal (even if terribly unwise). However, with conditions as they are, if it were me (even if it was a clearer case of SD) I would be the first to agree to an arrest and a trial. I would even help the police to find something to charge me with. In something of this magnitude (actually, regardless) I would want some legal proceeding that clears me. The last thing I would want is to let things linger for eternity with just “there wasn’t enough evidence for an arrest”.
That's one hell of a gamble and I'd advise Zimmerman not to even try it.

Even if he went to trial and was found not guilty those things you mentioned will still linger for eternity.

Instead of “there wasn’t enough evidence for an arrest” it will be “there wasn’t enough evidence for a conviction”.

Also doing what you say would automatically open him up to a civil lawsuit.

If the shooting is found justified the family of Trayvon Martin will not be able to sue in court but if it goes to trial then regardless of the outcome of the trial the family will then be able to sue Zimmerman.
__________________
Chuck Norris isn't afraid of 10mm.
Chuck Norris IS 10mm.
Every 10mm fired has a pin drop of Chuck Norris sweat placed inside it during the manufacture of said round. This most holy of sweat is what gives the 10mm its power. -- Said by me ;)
ZombieKing is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 10:00   #628
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheeBadOne View Post
Trayvon Martin case’s myths, half truths

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/nat...osition=recent
There are many half truths, altered and handpicked information being disseminated in this case in order to get an emotional response and set public perception.

Some of the alterations/modifications may not be pertinent in any legal court but it would affect the court of public opinion. There is the altered picture of Trayvon, the teacher’s fib that he was suspended for being late to class, when that wasn’t in fact the reason, pictures of his childhood in lieu of current pictures; none relevant to the case, but used to paint an inaccurate picture of who Trayvon was. I don’t think it would matter, even if he actually had a police record, Zimmerman shouldn’t have gotten out of his car and followed (even if he saw something suspicious).

The media is conveying to the public that Zimmerman has a bias against black males based on his previous 911 calls: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/032012-Man-who-shot-%26-killed-teen-has-history-calling-911. Of the 46 calls he made, did he mention a white person in any? Of the last 6 calls where he describes black males, where there arrests of black males? BTW of the 6 calls they imply he described black males, I heard the entire audio of one showed in that news article and he said the group of kids were of various races and he mentioned this after the operator asked about race. Why is that being counted as one where he described black males when he didn't?


The police released some of the burglary/break-in reports http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/BurglaryReports.pdf
Most do in fact describe black males, is this Zimmerman’s bias or just facts? Page 13 is about a home invasion (lady locked herself in the bedroom) by two black males. Are these people with racial bias or are they just facts in specific cases?

.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69
Misty02 is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 10:11   #629
IndyGunFreak
RIP My Friends
 
IndyGunFreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 29,692
Send a message via ICQ to IndyGunFreak Send a message via AIM to IndyGunFreak Send a message via MSN to IndyGunFreak Send a message via Yahoo to IndyGunFreak Send a message via Skype™ to IndyGunFreak


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieKing View Post
That's one hell of a gamble and I'd advise Zimmerman not to even try it.

Even if he went to trial and was found not guilty those things you mentioned will still linger for eternity.

Instead of “there wasn’t enough evidence for an arrest” it will be “there wasn’t enough evidence for a conviction”.

Also doing what you say would automatically open him up to a civil lawsuit.

If the shooting is found justified the family of Trayvon Martin will not be able to sue in court but if it goes to trial then regardless of the outcome of the trial the family will then be able to sue Zimmerman.
I thought Stand Your Ground protected you in the event of an acquittal?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioaJack View Post
The fire is no longer my major concern since I am leaving immediately on an unexpected road trip to Indianapolis. Watch the national news over the next couple of days, I'll wave... well, only if I'm cuffed in the front.
RIP Jack
IndyGunFreak is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 10:17   #630
jdavionic
NRA Member
 
jdavionic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
There are many half truths, altered and handpicked information being disseminated in this case in order to get an emotional response and set public perception.

Some of the alterations/modifications may not be pertinent in any legal court but it would affect the court of public opinion. There is the altered picture of Trayvon, the teacher’s fib that he was suspended for being late to class, when that wasn’t in fact the reason, pictures of his childhood in lieu of current pictures; none relevant to the case, but used to paint an inaccurate picture of who Trayvon was. I don’t think it would matter, even if he actually had a police record, Zimmerman shouldn’t have gotten out of his car and followed (even if he saw something suspicious).

The media is conveying to the public that Zimmerman has a bias against black males based on his previous 911 calls: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/032012-Man-who-shot-%26-killed-teen-has-history-calling-911. Of the 46 calls he made, did he mention a white person in any? Of the last 6 calls where he describes black males, where there arrests of black males? BTW of the 6 calls they imply he described black males, I heard the entire audio of one showed in that news article and he said the group of kids were of various races and he mentioned this after the operator asked about race. Why is that being counted as one where he described black males when he didn't? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-oHrNd80Us

The police released some of the burglary/break-in reports http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/BurglaryReports.pdf
Most do in fact describe black males, is this Zimmerman’s bias or just facts? Page 13 is about a home invasion (lady locked herself in the bedroom) by two black males. Are these people with racial bias or are they just facts in specific cases?

.
Some time ago (well before this incident) Neal Boortz went on a rant about racial profiling and how we are morphing to the point of absurdity. He went through a made-up incident where a fat black female robbed a bank to make his point...e.g., BOLO alerts cannot describe the woman as "black" because that would be deemed racial profiling. They cannot include that the suspect is a woman because that would profiling based on sex. They cannot describe the suspect as fat or obese because that would be profiling based on weight. So the alert ends up...be on the lookout for a person that we believe robbed a bank.
__________________
- JD

"No matter how bad it gets, if you're still alive it's just another bad day."
jdavionic is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 10:18   #631
rahrah12
Senior Member
 
rahrah12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieKing View Post
I have a hard time believing that since everything has said Trayvon was shot in the chest.

I also read a CNN article that backs up Assad Ayoob's blog about the gun and how it had not cycled to get a new round meaning most likely they were fighting over the gun. That makes it more likely that Martin was shot in the front of his chest (or even his head) and was not shot in the back of the head.

And honestly I'd ignore any attorney for Martin's family and for Zimmerman's family.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/...n-shooting.cnn

Zimmermans attorney...

I agree with you...just relaying the info...
rahrah12 is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 11:22   #632
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieKing View Post
That's one hell of a gamble and I'd advise Zimmerman not to even try it.

Even if he went to trial and was found not guilty those things you mentioned will still linger for eternity.

Instead of “there wasn’t enough evidence for an arrest” it will be “there wasn’t enough evidence for a conviction”.

Also doing what you say would automatically open him up to a civil lawsuit.

If the shooting is found justified the family of Trayvon Martin will not be able to sue in court but if it goes to trial then regardless of the outcome of the trial the family will then be able to sue Zimmerman.
If the shooting is declared as justified self-defense, whether by court process or other, he would be immune to civil suit. Anyone that attempts would end up stuck with his legal fees, loss wages, the works.

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force

My question; however, what if the court finds him not guilty of murder but doesn’t include that it was a justified act of self-defense? Can they do that? If they can, where does that leave things?
.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69
Misty02 is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 11:27   #633
HexHead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieKing View Post
If the shooting is found justified the family of Trayvon Martin will not be able to sue in court but if it goes to trial then regardless of the outcome of the trial the family will then be able to sue Zimmerman.
Zimmerman, his family, the condo assoc., their insurer (they probably have at least a $1 million liability policy) and any other deep pocket they can think of. This would be better than 0bamamoney.
HexHead is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 11:41   #634
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavionic View Post
Some time ago (well before this incident) Neal Boortz went on a rant about racial profiling and how we are morphing to the point of absurdity. He went through a made-up incident where a fat black female robbed a bank to make his point...e.g., BOLO alerts cannot describe the woman as "black" because that would be deemed racial profiling. They cannot include that the suspect is a woman because that would profiling based on sex. They cannot describe the suspect as fat or obese because that would be profiling based on weight. So the alert ends up...be on the lookout for a person that we believe robbed a bank.
Priceless!

.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69
Misty02 is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:06   #635
LApm9
Senior Member
 
LApm9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack76590 View Post
If there is a witnesses that says Martin attack Zimmerman and as a result Zimmerman get off, I predict riots across US. The Black community now has too much emotional investment in Martin as symbolic victim and will never accept that Zimmerman is innocent.
If history is any guide, only the minority neighborhoods will be destroyed. Each time this happens, fewer merchants return...
LApm9 is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:19   #636
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyGunFreak View Post
I thought Stand Your Ground protected you in the event of an acquittal?
I’m slowly learning more about that. It appears it would solve possible legal issues with the shooting itself, assuming it is ruled as justified self-defense. However, it appears legal action can still be brought by the family and possibly the feds for violation of civil rights. The evidence at hand may not be sufficient to win such a suit, but there is no immunity for violation of civil right. I’m still learning, so I might not have worded this correctly.

ETA: Can someone that knows more correct my comment so it is something others can understand and learn from as well?

.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69

Last edited by Misty02; 03-25-2012 at 12:20..
Misty02 is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 13:16   #637
hyperstyx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: On the beach or in the mountains
Posts: 1,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
Although not against the law, I still believe this shooting was preventable by Zimmerman not getting out of his vehicle and trying to see where Martin went. It is quite possible that nothing he did was illegal (even if terribly unwise). However, with conditions as they are, if it were me (even if it was a clearer case of SD) I would be the first to agree to an arrest and a trial. I would even help the police to find something to charge me with. In something of this magnitude (actually, regardless) I would want some legal proceeding that clears me. The last thing I would want is to let things linger for eternity with just “there wasn’t enough evidence for an arrest”.






I don’t know. I don’t even know where he stands on this, although it is implied.



Based on what I have been able to learn here and in the other forum, Zimmerman’s odds would be better with the State’s criminal courts. I have yet to learn enough about the Federal Courts to determine if they have the same stringent “beyond reasonable doubt”. I believe he would be toast in Civil court, I understand that one just a tad better.



I’m also very interested in learning how this would work in conjunction with the FL Statute. If his actions are cleared as justified SD he can’t successfully be sued in civil court, apparently they’re not even able to bring further charges. I think that means no Federal charges either, but I’m not sure. I would like to know.

It would be interesting if Sam put up a paper on this case with various assumptions and how it could possible work with the various courts as well as the possible outcomes. Obviously, assumptions would have to made to illustrate it.

.

I also did a quick review of the Supremacy Clause/Federal Preemption but did not arrive at anything definitive. It would take a legal scholar's analysis of all the facts pertaining to this case as related to applicable law to get an opinion worthy of consideration. If more than one scholar gets involved I'd not be surprised at conflicting opinions. And then there's the levels of examination and review by the courts.

Interesting and unsettled times may be visiting for quite a while.
__________________
Consequential critical thinking is not a liberal-approved intervention.
hyperstyx is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 13:18   #638
Wake_jumper
Senior Member
 
Wake_jumper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,675
An eye-witness has surfaced and says that Zimm was on the ground being pummeled by Martin. His bloody face and clothes corroborate the story. Zimm was calling to the passerby for help. He shot Martin as a last resort.
Wake_jumper is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 13:32   #639
HexHead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,818
Then there's this....

Carry Issues
HexHead is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 13:45   #640
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperstyx View Post
I also did a quick review of the Supremacy Clause/Federal Preemption but did not arrive at anything definitive. It would take a legal scholar's analysis of all the facts pertaining to this case as related to applicable law to get an opinion worthy of consideration. If more than one scholar gets involved I'd not be surprised at conflicting opinions. And then there's the levels of examination and review by the courts.

Interesting and unsettled times may be visiting for quite a while.
This case has truly fascinated me and increased my thirst for knowledge and information beyond anything I could have predicted. I am also interested in the human aspects, I’ve always been interested in people watching (including but not limited to how we react to one another), this case has offered a lot of information on that too.

Of course, I live in Florida; perhaps not close enough to Martin’s home to feel the full effects of civil disturbances, but enough to possibly feel minor interruptions in the chains of supply and the like. If something was to happen at a state wide level (which I believe is unlikely) then I may find myself closer to the action than I ever cared to be.

One thing is certain, not even in my wildest imagination would I have assumed it would have reached this magnitude. There is so much to learn!

We’ll have to wait and see how it all progresses and I trust TBO will post links in the future with relevant updates, even when fury of it all has passed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wake_jumper View Post
An eye-witness has surfaced and says that Zimm was on the ground being pummeled by Martin. His bloody face and clothes corroborate the story. Zimm was calling to the passerby for help. He shot Martin as a last resort.
He was among the original eyewitness and reported in an article dated 2/27/12, which I had not read either until it was posted here recently.

.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69
Misty02 is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 14:30   #641
ATW525
Senior Member
 
ATW525's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 358
Nutter declares killing an "assassination":

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc-tv/46849145/#46849145

No... really... that's his name...
ATW525 is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 15:36   #642
Southswede
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wake_jumper View Post
An eye-witness has surfaced and says that Zimm was on the ground being pummeled by Martin. His bloody face and clothes corroborate the story. Zimm was calling to the passerby for help. He shot Martin as a last resort.
http://www.examiner.com/charleston-c...trayvon-martin

Found that while googling......
Southswede is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 15:40   #643
rhikdavis
U.S. Veteran
 
rhikdavis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Late Great Planet Earth
Posts: 13,192
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to rhikdavis Send a message via Skype™ to rhikdavis
Now the Black Panthers will go after that witness to set him straight.
__________________
Charter OAF Member
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
rhikdavis is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 15:42   #644
IndyGunFreak
RIP My Friends
 
IndyGunFreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 29,692
Send a message via ICQ to IndyGunFreak Send a message via AIM to IndyGunFreak Send a message via MSN to IndyGunFreak Send a message via Yahoo to IndyGunFreak Send a message via Skype™ to IndyGunFreak


I wonder what kind of effect this will have on the Presidential election?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioaJack View Post
The fire is no longer my major concern since I am leaving immediately on an unexpected road trip to Indianapolis. Watch the national news over the next couple of days, I'll wave... well, only if I'm cuffed in the front.
RIP Jack
IndyGunFreak is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 15:43   #645
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATW525 View Post
Nutter declares killing an "assassination":

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc-tv/46849145/#46849145

No... really... that's his name...
Quite a fitting name.

Will he take some responsibility for the reaction his statements have in a community that is extremely sensitive at the moment? People really don’t take time to think before making a public statement that can seriously impact thousands, do they?

.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69
Misty02 is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 16:20   #646
pipedreams
Member
 
pipedreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,922
Here is where the real problem is not in Florida.

"Last weekend in the city of Chicago alone, gangbangers slaughtered ten people and wounded another forty. The youngest fatality is only six years old. The youngest person wounded is only one-year-old. Many of the victim were pedestrians sprayed with bullets in drive by shootings. The national news has said nothing about this."
__________________
NRA Patron Member
GOA Life Member


Never look down on anybody, unless you're helping them up.
pipedreams is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 16:40   #647
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipedreams View Post
Here is where the real problem is not in Florida.

"Last weekend in the city of Chicago alone, gangbangers slaughtered ten people and wounded another forty. The youngest fatality is only six years old. The youngest person wounded is only one-year-old. Many of the victim were pedestrians sprayed with bullets in drive by shootings. The national news has said nothing about this."
My prayers to the families and loved ones to all those affected. I guess no one in the crowd was armed and able to stop these gangsters?

And they want to repeal stand your ground?

.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69
Misty02 is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 16:42   #648
ATW525
Senior Member
 
ATW525's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
My prayers to the families and loved ones to all those affected. I guess no one in the crowd was armed and able to stop these gangsters?

And they want to repeal stand your ground?

.
In Chicago, only cops and crooks carry guns.
ATW525 is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 17:19   #649
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATW525 View Post
In Chicago, only cops and crooks carry guns.
I know, but isn't that what some of our politicians are working toward?

.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69

Last edited by Misty02; 03-25-2012 at 17:26..
Misty02 is offline  
Old 03-25-2012, 17:28   #650
G30Mike
Say When!
 
G30Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: St. Joseph MO
Posts: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipedreams View Post
Here is where the real problem is not in Florida.

"Last weekend in the city of Chicago alone, gangbangers slaughtered ten people and wounded another forty. The youngest fatality is only six years old. The youngest person wounded is only one-year-old. Many of the victim were pedestrians sprayed with bullets in drive by shootings. The national news has said nothing about this."
Of course they wont cover it because its not true. Chicago's tough gun laws work to well for those things to happen. I'm betting Chicago is one of the safest cities to live in besides NY and DC.
:toungout:
G30Mike is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:03.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 799
200 Members
599 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42