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Old 03-19-2012, 07:54   #201
Misty02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensteele View Post
Following Martin is not a crime. When politely asked by dispatch, Zman said OK. Then he did the opposite. It shows a pattern of misleading the authorities of his true intentions which he did many times from mischaracterising the target Martin as a drug user to looking suspicious to having something in his waistband to having something in his hand to coming over to check him out. It's a classic setup (including the call to a non-911 number) and the state bought it. It is the totality of circumstances that don't add up to everything going wrong....from Zman chased him to Martin did nothing suspicious to Martin had nothing suspicious in his hand or waistband, even to Martin being the one who screamed for help. Everything is slightly off. Look at the big picture instead of the minute details.

Because Zman didn't know all the details, he had no right to take the action he did. He gambled.
Do we know for a fact that there were no drugs or alcohol in the system of either?

I donít know what actually happened here but it seems that the state lacks sufficient evidence to disprove self-defense. I too believe that Zimmerman likely followed Martin, chased Iím not so sure, he was breathing heavily at times from just getting out of the car and walking.

Which are the actions Zimmerman had no right to take that we know he did?

.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:09   #202
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Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
Something else to keep in mind; make sure kids always have some ID on them!


When he didnít return back to the townhouse, it would be another 12 hours before Tracy Martin found out his son was dead.

ďI started making calls to see if he was arrested,Ē he said.

Calls to 911 led him to missing persons, where he left a description of his son. Soon a marked patrol car followed by detectives arrived at Greenís rented townhouse

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/1...#storylink=cpy

.
Thanks, I remember reading this but couldn't find it again to post here. As a parent this baffles me. I mean, Trayvon went to get snacks at the 7-11 which is 15 minutes away, doesn't come back and in the meantime someone is murdered 70 feet from the dad's house. Why would it take twelve more hours to become concerned?
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:27   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensteele View Post
It is the totality of circumstances that don't add up...Look at the big picture instead of the minute details.
You do not have the totality of circumstances to add up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kensteele View Post
Because Zman didn't know all the details, he had no right to take the action he did. He gambled.
Yet you feel comfortable condemning Zimmerman when you do not know all the details...
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:28   #204
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Do we know for a fact that there were no drugs or alcohol in the system of either?
It is reported that Zimmerman was not tested for drugs or alcohol.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:50   #205
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Thanks, I remember reading this but couldn't find it again to post here. As a parent this baffles me. I mean, Trayvon went to get snacks at the 7-11 which is 15 minutes away, doesn't come back and in the meantime someone is murdered 70 feet from the dad's house. Why would it take twelve more hours to become concerned?


It mentions it took 12 hours for the father to find out his son was dead. It appears they were looking for him and calling 911 long before that.

Without ID, and possibly not even a cell phone, it would have taken the police some time to figure out who the kid was; more so if the neighbors couldnít point them in the right direction.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:59   #206
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It is reported that Zimmerman was not tested for drugs or alcohol.
I read that too. It is likely that information is within Martinís autopsy and the reason no one has mentioned it is because the results were negative, but that is an assumption on my part. All the reports weíre reading is what the family has been able to get police to disclose, what the police so far has disclosed, and what some witnesses said. Other than Zimmermanís dad letter and the 911 call, no information is flowing from that side. Iím also assuming that what has been printed is what those sources actually said (one heck of a leap on my part).

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Old 03-19-2012, 09:19   #207
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You do not have the totality of circumstances to add up.Yet you feel comfortable condemning Zimmerman when you do not know all the details...
Because the total arc of the relevant information suggests Zimmerman was the instigator.

Mall ninja Zman could have prevented the shooting and let the "professionals" handle it at least 3 times:

- listened to Dispatch and stayed at home

-not get out of the vehicle and just observe

-avoid any contact

Everything is pointing to zMan looking for contact to draw.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:30   #208
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Because the total arc of the relevant information suggests...
And you believe all relevant, factual information has been made public?

Or is it all the information you need has been made public?

I believe Zimmerman has culpability, and that he could have and should have handled it differently.

Is it a good self defense homicide or a negligent homicide? The DA will let us know based on all the facts.
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Last edited by RussP; 03-19-2012 at 10:34..
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:37   #209
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HuffPost: Shooting of Florida Teen Shows Danger of Maryland Judge's Renegade Ruling:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis...b_1363409.html
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:47   #210
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I don't have anything to add, other than I live in Sanford
and can see this situation spiraling out of control. Let's
hope that the new Black Panthers, Jesse Jackson and Al
Sharpton don't turn this into MORE of a media circus when
they get here at the end of the week.

At least I can hope not...right??
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:01   #211
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Quote:
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HuffPost: Shooting of Florida Teen Shows Danger of Maryland Judge's Renegade Ruling:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis...b_1363409.html
First paragraph is all I could get through...
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:33   #212
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As a parent this baffles me. I mean, Trayvon went to get snacks at the 7-11 which is 15 minutes away, doesn't come back and in the meantime someone is murdered 70 feet from the dad's house. Why would it take twelve more hours to become concerned?
They were probably busy getting married (the "girlfriend" - "fiancee" - "stepmother" transformation in the media reports).
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:57   #213
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They talked about this on CNN last night. I want to know the full story and see how it really plays out. Granted it sounds like the guy should not have confronted the kid at all. Hard to say since I wasn't there.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:59   #214
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Just saw it on fox. Nothing new that wasn't discussed here... However they did say the DOJ will be sending personal sometime this week to oversee the investigation.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:47   #215
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I believe we all agree Zimmerman getting out of his car was, at the least, a very unwise move. Was it illegal? I can not see how it was illegal as a stand alone issue.

However, if the case comes to trial and I believe it will, the exit of his vehicle will come up again and again. The prosecution will attempt to demonize Zimmerman as a racist, cop wannabe.

Unless there are creditable witnesses that observed Martin turning, moving toward Zimmerman and attacking him, I think Zimmerman will end up serving some time. You can talk all you want about beyond a reasonable doubt, but again barring witnesses supporting an attack on Zimmerman, I envision the jury finding Zimmerman guilty. Not saying whether if would or would not be a fair verdict, just saying I believe it will happen.

Being guilty of nothing but stupid, combined with bad luck can get you sent to prison. Unfair, yes, but also true.
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Old 03-19-2012, 14:29   #216
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A friend posted a link on Facebook that supposedly has the 911 calls but I can't get it to play. It is a page I'd been to before and they've updated it.

Mentioning of the White House, FBI, and groups of blacks chanting "Do I look suspicious".


Yeah, this is going to end well.
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Old 03-19-2012, 15:06   #217
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They played the 911 tapes on fox news this morning. The man said to the operator the boy was walking toward him while he was sitting in his car and the boy had his hand tucked into his waistband like he had a gun.

The man may have gotten out of his car so he wouldnt be a sitting duck if this boy open fire on him.
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Old 03-19-2012, 16:05   #218
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After Zimmerman's REFUSAL to follow police instructions and WAIT until REAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS arrived how can anything Zimmerman said or claims to have happened be TRUSTED AS ACCURATE due to his documented REFUSAL to follow official police orders/instructions. Why the refusal!!!! UNLESS---Police TOLD him or led him (Zimmerman) to believe it's OK to engage in such a potentially dangerous activity----a complete investigation is desparately needed --maybe not by the Sanford PD since what they told Zimmerman to do or not do will be in question. The list of "what if" or "maybe" is endless.
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Old 03-19-2012, 16:23   #219
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After Zimmerman's REFUSAL to follow police instructions and WAIT until REAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS arrived how can anything Zimmerman said or claims to have happened be TRUSTED AS ACCURATE due to his documented REFUSAL to follow official police orders/instructions. Why the refusal!!!! UNLESS---Police TOLD him or led him (Zimmerman) to believe it's OK to engage in such a potentially dangerous activity----a complete investigation is desparately needed --maybe not by the Sanford PD since what they told Zimmerman to do or not do will be in question. The list of "what if" or "maybe" is endless.
What police orders/instructions? A call taker (not a police officer) simply said "We don't need you to do that," in regards to Zimmerman following Martin.
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Old 03-19-2012, 16:30   #220
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After Zimmerman's REFUSAL to follow police instructions and WAIT until REAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS arrived how can anything Zimmerman said or claims to have happened be TRUSTED AS ACCURATE due to his documented REFUSAL to follow official police orders/instructions. Why the refusal!!!! UNLESS---Police TOLD him or led him (Zimmerman) to believe it's OK to engage in such a potentially dangerous activity----a complete investigation is desparately needed --maybe not by the Sanford PD since what they told Zimmerman to do or not do will be in question. The list of "what if" or "maybe" is endless.
A 911 Operator is not the police. Even if they provided an order (which they didnít) you arenít required by law to follow it.

Our doctors have more authority over us than a 911 operator, and we still don't always follow their orders/suggestions.
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