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Old 03-18-2012, 12:40   #181
Bruce M
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I wonder if Zimmerman has an attorney? If so I wonder how much that has cost so far? What would the cost be if the incident goes to trial?
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:57   #182
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I wonder if Zimmerman has an attorney? If so I wonder how much that has cost so far? What would the cost be if the incident goes to trial?
I've kind of wondered the same thing. Other than his father's letter, his side of the story really isn't getting told. The Martin family has basically had free reign to try this case in the court of public opinion.

At this point, I think no matter what happens and what the evidence shows, a large part of community will always believe that George Zimmerman is a cold blooded racist murderer. That's what the media and the Martin family has portrayed him as. Any evidence that contradicts that will just be written off as part of the conspiracy by "the man" to cover this up.
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Old 03-18-2012, 13:26   #183
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I've kind of wondered the same thing. Other than his father's letter, his side of the story really isn't getting told. The Martin family has basically had free reign to try this case in the court of public opinion.

At this point, I think no matter what happens and what the evidence shows, a large part of community will always believe that George Zimmerman is a cold blooded racist murderer. That's what the media and the Martin family has portrayed him as. Any evidence that contradicts that will just be written off as part of the conspiracy by "the man" to cover this up.
And it would be unwise for him to provide any information to anyone, especially the press! Anything he says can be damaging to his case, whether guilty or innocent.

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Old 03-18-2012, 13:30   #184
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I wonder if Zimmerman has an attorney? If so I wonder how much that has cost so far? What would the cost be if the incident goes to trial?
He would need the best attorney available for a case of this magnitude. He appears to have given a full statement to the police and was never arrested. One doesnít have a right to a court appointed attorney unless one is charged, right?

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Old 03-18-2012, 13:35   #185
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One question and it will be my final question until the state releases the official findings of the investigation:

If it can be determined that the screams for help came from Martin and the screaming stopped right after the shot is fired, will that possibly change your mind and help you conclude that Zman should be tried for this crime?
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Old 03-18-2012, 13:46   #186
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I tried to use the links earlier in the thread to listen to the tapes. In the third one down, you can distinctly hear what sounds like a "warrior type", or "instinctual" (not sure how to describe it) howl, and another voice yelling "help". From that, it seems like Zman is telling the truth about asking for help. (Unless of course Zman is the "howler")

My $.02

Here is another source for audio: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1354909.html

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Old 03-18-2012, 13:56   #187
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And it would be unwise for him to provide any information to anyone, especially the press! Anything he says can be damaging to his case, whether guilty or innocent.

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Oh... I agree 100% that Zimmerman shouldn't personally be saying a word to the press. That said, I would think his lawyer could release carefully chosen statements on behalf of his client. Of course, IANAL, and there might very good reason why Zimmern's attorney (if Zimmerman even has one) hasn't released any public statements yet.
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Old 03-18-2012, 14:39   #188
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One question and it will be my final question until the state releases the official findings of the investigation:

If it can be determined that the screams for help came from Martin and the screaming stopped right after the shot is fired, will that possibly change your mind and help you conclude that Zman should be tried for this crime?
It is possible that both were acting in self-defense. Either could have yelled for help and wanted the fight stopped. It doesnít automatically brand the other a criminal.

I would have to make certain assumptions not in evidence where both (simultaneously) were acting in self-defense and neither would reach the status of criminal in my mind. But it appears people want someone charged with a crime in a case where a person lost his life. I canít even say I blame them; I too would want justice if it was a loved one, even if I wasnít completely sure what justice in that particular case was.

A long time ago our family was involved in a case where Iím certain beyond doubt justice wasnít served. It was a clear case of guilty that didnít stick. I believe the police did what they could to make it happen, but the person got off on a technicality. I still cannot let my own bias of the system, as whole, influence individual opinions I form about a specific occurrence.

Now, when Iím called for jury duty I will honestly state that due to past experience Iím unable to believe that all relevant evidence, testimony and information has been presented. Based on that, I donít believe I can reach a fair and impartial conclusion. At that point, whether they take me or not, is up to them. No defense attorney has made that leap of faith yet.

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Old 03-18-2012, 15:44   #189
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Zimmerman is guilty of at least manslaughter. He escalated the situation to a confrontation. He disobeyed the dispatcher, followed and got out of the car, and initiated contact.

Zimmerman is the kind of neighbor I would be worried about having next door. A guy with a gun who was itching to pull the trigger...
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Old 03-18-2012, 16:27   #190
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Again, I would really be interested in what if any injuries Zimmerman suffered. If the general standard for justifying use of deadly force is - in grave and immediate danger of loss of life or serious bodily injury, then it would really be to Zimmermans benefit to have some very visible injuries.

Yes, he could have sustained nothing other than a bloody nose and make case of grave danger, but it will be harder. I wonder if in the end Zimmerman will claim it was a fight over the gun and gun went off in the struggle.
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Old 03-18-2012, 17:34   #191
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Yes, he could have sustained nothing other than a bloody nose and make case of grave danger, but it will be harder. I wonder if in the end Zimmerman will claim it was a fight over the gun and gun went off in the struggle.
I would think it would easy to prove if a gun went off a close range and the angle of the gunshot. There have been plenty of legitimate struggles where the gun have gone off, this would come back with the analysis and the investigation and the examination if that is what occured. We'll see. Looks like the FBI might be getting involved. I'm concerned there will be a lot of "inconclusive" results which is code for "I'm not going to call it...[fill in anything that would tend to make the shooter look guilty]."
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Old 03-18-2012, 19:41   #192
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This story posted today and you should be warned don't read it if you don't care for theories and speculation and only want to know the facts when they are released. Lots of talk in this article: http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-mar...9#.T2aMyXh9n-o
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:56   #193
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Originally Posted by kensteele View Post
This story posted today and you should be warned don't read it if you don't care for theories and speculation and only want to know the facts when they are released. Lots of talk in this article: http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-family-seeks-fbi-investigation-killing/story?id=15949879#.T2aMyXh9n-o

Looks similar to other articles Iíve read, then again, Iíve read more than a few that werenít posted here and probably why I donít see that much of a difference. Well, other than mention of the ďstepmotherĒ who in previous articles was the girlfriend and then the fiancť. Either the reporters keep changing her status or the dad moves fast.

For those that continue to say he disobeyed the 911 operator and got off the vehicle. Iíll start by restating that I personally donít believe he should have gotten out of the vehicle either. However, doing so is not against the law. Second, the operator said ďwe donít need you doing thatĒ hardly an order. Third, if you believe that 911 operator instructions/suggestions carry the weight of law, remember that next time you hear them tell the caller (as the intruder is breaking into their home) ďMaíam put the weapon down!Ē The police are on their way.Ē

In spite all we think we know, we really know little to nothing. In spite what little we know, we still know a lot more than what Zimmerman knew at that point and time. Iím not defending him or his actions; I just havenít read any information that would help me form a personal opinion on whether or not he may have taken that shot in self-defense. Conversely from the information that has been presented so far, I have formed the personal opinion that Martin was doing nothing wrong or illegal, at least until he came face to face with Zimmerman. Even if I were to learn that Martin pushed Zimmerman (a stranger that was following him) and it was then that Zimmerman sustained the injury to the back of his head from which he was bleeding, I would be able to label that action as self-defense, from Martinís perspective.

At the end of the day, my opinion on something like this isnít worth even the usual $.02 and just because I think it makes sense (or doesnít) it doesnít make it legal or illegal.


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Old 03-19-2012, 04:48   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgjane View Post
Zimmerman is guilty of at least manslaughter. He escalated the situation to a confrontation. He disobeyed the dispatcher, followed and got out of the car, and initiated contact.

Zimmerman is the kind of neighbor I would be worried about having next door. A guy with a gun who was itching to pull the trigger...
Just curious where you've gotten the information he initiated the contact, escalated the situation, etc..? I've not read anything about that. Yes, he followed the guy.. but disobeying a dispatcher is not a crime.

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Old 03-19-2012, 04:54   #195
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Something else to keep in mind; make sure kids always have some ID on them!


When he didnít return back to the townhouse, it would be another 12 hours before Tracy Martin found out his son was dead.

ďI started making calls to see if he was arrested,Ē he said.

Calls to 911 led him to missing persons, where he left a description of his son. Soon a marked patrol car followed by detectives arrived at Greenís rented townhouse

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/1...#storylink=cpy

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Old 03-19-2012, 05:20   #196
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In spite all we think we know, we really know little to nothing. In spite what little we know, we still know a lot more than what Zimmerman knew at that point and time.
Very important...
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:30   #197
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Yes, we don't have all the facts and probably never will. But the question will be asked why did Zimmerman step out of the car? I believe most people will feel Zimmerman got out of the car to play police officer and detain Martin. Now maybe Zimmerman or his lawyers can come up with another reason Zimmerman got out of his car.

But if the jurors believe Zimmerman got out of his car to play policeman and detain Martin, then I think Zimmerman is toast.

And I don't want any precedents being set that justifies a non police officer attempting to detain me, unless there is a clear and immediate danger I am about to do harm to people, not harm to property, but harm to people.

I can not support the position a person has a right to say to another, hey you stop, attempt to detain him because of vague suspicion of some undefined crime the person thinks he might commit. And then when the person resists being detained by non police officer give non police officer the right to use deadly force because he is losing a fight, that he started without justification.
I agree totally. He shouldn't have got out of the car. End of story. By doing so its no longer self defense
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:40   #198
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Just curious where you've gotten the information he initiated the contact, escalated the situation, etc..? I've not read anything about that. Yes, he followed the guy.. but disobeying a dispatcher is not a crime.

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Known facts:

The kid is walking.
Zimmerman follows in the car.
Zimmerman shots kid outside the car.

Zimmerman escalated the situation, every single time he could.

He got what he wanted though, he got to shoot somebody. In his mall ninja mind, he thought he would be hailed as a hero for this.

Lost in all this is, a KID got shot, never to fulfill his life, his GOD given right.

A neighborhood watch idiot was the judge, jury and executioner.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:45   #199
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Following Martin is not a crime. When politely asked by dispatch, Zman said OK. Then he did the opposite. It shows a pattern of misleading the authorities of his true intentions which he did many times from mischaracterising the target Martin as a drug user to looking suspicious to having something in his waistband to having something in his hand to coming over to check him out. It's a classic setup (including the call to a non-911 number) and the state bought it. It is the totality of circumstances that don't add up to everything going wrong....from Zman chased him to Martin did nothing suspicious to Martin had nothing suspicious in his hand or waistband, even to Martin being the one who screamed for help. Everything is slightly off. Look at the big picture instead of the minute details.

Because Zman didn't know all the details, he had no right to take the action he did. He gambled.

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Old 03-19-2012, 07:44   #200
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I agree totally. He shouldn't have got out of the car. End of story. By doing so its no longer self defense
Not certain I understand exactly what you mean (as respect legalities and self-defense) correctly. Could you please let me know if the following is correct so I can more clearly understand?

We all know it is not wise to be out alone at 2:00 AM in a shady areas of town.. We are told this constantly by the media, by friends, by the authorities. Following that train of thought, if youíre out and about at 2:00 AM in a shady area of town you likely instigated the problems by virtue of being there (where you are legally allowed to be) thus any problems you encounter or if you have to act in self-defense, wonít be viewed as such.


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