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Old 03-04-2012, 15:35   #41
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Originally Posted by pipedreams View Post
Your correct the danger in every job is different. But as I said when one accepts the job one hopefully know what goes with it. The guy at the alligator farm should not work there if he is afraid of getting bit. He will goes around all day wondering which one is going to bite him. He should work somewhere else where he is not afraid. I have had very few encounters with LE during my life and in each case found the officer very polite and I was polite and on my way in a few minutes.
Knowing the potential risks of a job does not mean that the person doing that job can't take reasonable precautions to help minimize those risks.

Every occupation out there has continued to make stides in the safety of it's workers, LE is no different.
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 03-04-2012, 15:36   #42
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Correct.
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Originally Posted by madcitycop View Post
The cell tower will never intentionally pull a firearm and shoot you or knock you off intentionally. High voltage power lines dont conceal the amount of electricity and then shock you when you touch it. Bigg difference between me falling off a tower or touching a line and someone pulling a firearm on me and shooting me. I hate this argument as they are clearly apples and oranges. Are those jobs dangerous, of course. Dangerous in the same way? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

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Old 03-04-2012, 15:38   #43
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http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...s/0843.02.html
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Old 03-04-2012, 15:41   #44
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You do not have to inform a LEO officer you are carrying in MO. However you must answer truthfully if a LEO asks. The CCW license number is the same as the drivers license number. LEOs will know that you have a CCW license when they run the drivers license or license plate through MULES provided the car is registered to CCW permit holder.

Last edited by oldsoldier; 03-04-2012 at 15:41..
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Old 03-04-2012, 15:48   #45
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that it !!! why make it hard for them to do thier job



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Originally Posted by DesertEagle View Post
I don't believe GA has any duty to inform, nor on the once I've been stopped since having my permit was I asked (didn't have it anyway).

However, my perspective, if I was, is this - I would rather politely inform the officer that for both our benefits I would like him to know that I have a permit and am carrying and a verbal description of where before I remove my hands from the steering wheel.

I know they have a stressful job at times, and I'd rather be honest about it and forward, and I feel it puts them at ease (hopefully). I'd rather do it that way then reach for my wallet and have him see it and wonder what I'm really reaching for.

Last edited by SCC; 03-04-2012 at 15:49..
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Old 03-04-2012, 15:50   #46
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Originally Posted by TheeBadOne View Post
Knowing the potential risks of a job does not mean that the person doing that job can't take reasonable precautions to help minimize those risks.

That's as it should be.

Every occupation out there has continued to make stides in the safety of it's workers, LE is no different.
My point was many jobs have extreme dangers maybe different than LE but they need to understand the danger when taking on the job. Yes do the job as safely as possible and hats off to those dealing with some of the crazies.
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Old 03-04-2012, 15:55   #47
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I'd like to see some honest numbers of officer's getting shot by CCW holders during traffic stops.

I'd think the ones without a permit/license are the ones the officers to protect themselves from.
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Old 03-04-2012, 16:06   #48
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From the informational brochure With CCP http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/...e-brochure.pdf

Law Enforcement Contact

The concealed carry law requires you to display your photo identification and concealed carry license upon the request of a law enforcement officer when youare carrying a concealed weapon. For your safety and the safety of the law enforcement officer, we recommend the following actions to avoid raising alarming the officer and ensure the contact goes as smoothly as possible.

1.Cooperate fully with the officer.
2.If you are in a vehicle, roll down the window.
3.At night, turn on the dome light.
4.Stay in the vehicle unless the officer tells you to get out.
5.Keep your hands where the officer can see them. If you are in a vehicle, the best place to put them is on the steering wheel.
6.Immediately and calmly tell the officer that you have a concealed carry license and are carrying a weapon.
7.Tell the officer where your permit and weapon are located. Do not reach for them unless specifically told to by the officer. Don’t make any quick movements.

In some circumstances the officer may ask to take temporary possession of the weapon to ensure the safety of the officer and others. However, in routine non-arrest contacts, the officerwill return the weapon to you at the end of the contact.

Last edited by geoemery; 03-04-2012 at 16:17..
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Old 03-04-2012, 17:37   #49
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Id love to Wi statute 946.41 knowingly giving false information to a police officer is a misdemenaor offense. Semantics is for court. I ask you if you have a gun while we're on a stop and you say no and i find a gun youre going to jail for obstructing. If youve got a lot of money have at it and the lawyers can sort it out. But in the field you lose and for what purpose? i like my guns and having them at my house and not in a police evidence locker. But hey to each his own and court pays overtime.

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you are correct, do not give an WI officer false information while he is performing his official duties. you wouild be obstructing or resisting.

I think that applies to everyone regardless of how much money they have.

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Old 03-04-2012, 17:39   #50
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Nothing to see there.

My goodness, you guys don't even know your rights.

Please don't post disorderly, obstructing statutes unless you support them to apply to anyone and everyone (including yourself) whenever the officer decides he doesn't like something. Instead post the lying statutes (the one I asked for) where the penalty is for telling the lying, not to impending, obstructing, violating, stopped, hindering, or resisting an official process.

When an officer asks "Where are you coming from?" he is not asking in an official capacity. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION TRUTHFUL ELSE GET ARRESTED FOR LYING. Just don't answer, like I said.

If your state requires you to appropriately respond about your weapon and your permit, you need to do so because there are laws that penalize you for doing so. If not required in your state, there is no lying statute that will snag you if you don't.

IANAL

Last edited by kensteele; 03-04-2012 at 17:44..
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Old 03-04-2012, 17:40   #51
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Since when it is crime to lie to police at a traffic stop? ............
ken: And often times the guy who lies because it is 'legal' ends up with more tickets, more fines, or more bracelets when that lie is detected, or even suspected.

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Not ALL speech is protected...

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This does not answer my question in any way, shape, or form.

Do you intend to answer my question?
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Old 03-04-2012, 17:51   #52
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Not really UofM has that "ordinance" and since they are not preempted by state law you're pretty much screwed.
True, but I haven't heard of anyone being charged for merely walking through the campus via sidewalkor driving through on the street.
I would think it may be become an issue if a CPL holder was involved in some sort of incident and just happened to be armed.
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Old 03-04-2012, 17:52   #53
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Honesty is the best policy, I think.
GA does not have a duty to inform so I doubt I would volunteer the info on a traffic stop, but if asked I would honestly answer.
I'm in a unique position in that I carry on my military ID, which is an exemption GA has. I worry occasionally that if in a situation I may be dealing with a LEO who is not completely aware of said exemption. I figure it will all work out fine regardless. I try to avoid interactions with law enforcement as a rule.
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Old 03-04-2012, 17:53   #54
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ken: And often times the guy who lies because it is 'legal' ends up with more tickets, more fines, or more bracelets when that lie is detected, or even suspected.
Agreed. If you commit other crimes and other violations, write the citation and/or make the arrests. Not a problem.

When an officer catches you in a lie, he should take whatever action he determines necessary to satisfy his official investigation.

I do have a problem with arresting someone for saying they just came from school when in fact they just came from work. No one should be arrested for that and I disagree with any statute that permits an officer to arrest you for telling him you just came from school when he saw you come from work, absent of any other factors and specifically when you are required to tell OR failure to tell is considered a lie.

Not that I support the lie, not at all. But, I support your right to free speech and you right to remain silent. I really would prefer not to have an officer determine what is a lie or what is the truth and take action on that at the traffic stop.

My opinion.
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Old 03-04-2012, 17:56   #55
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True, but I haven't heard of anyone being charged for merely walking through the campus via sidewalkor driving through on the street.
I would think it may be become an issue if a CPL holder was involved in some sort of incident and just happened to be armed.
I might have been confused about this. I thought he said if you are walking on the university campus and you run into an officer who makes official contact, you are required by law to disclose your weapon to him. And, if you disclose your weapon you will be certainly arrested because having a weapon on the university campus is illegal. Did I get that right? Either you are guilty of carrying on the campus or you are guilty of failure to disclose....if caught.
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Old 03-04-2012, 17:57   #56
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I do have a problem with arresting someone for saying they just came from school when in fact they just came from work. No one should be arrested for that and I disagree with any statute that permits an officer to arrest you for telling him you just came from school when he saw you come from work, absent of any other factors and specifically when you are required to tell OR failure to tell is considered a lie.
I must have missed where this scenario was up for discussion, or how this was what you were referring to. Got a quote?
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Old 03-04-2012, 17:58   #57
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If I ask you if you are armed or have a weapon in the vehicle and you refuse to answer, you're not going to like what happens next. That sounds potentially threatening, and you will be dealt with accordingly.

If you lie to me about having a weapon on you or in your vehicle and I catch you, I'm going to charge you with every possible violation I can.

Lying or withholding information from an officer about a weapon on your person is a really stupid game.
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Old 03-04-2012, 18:03   #58
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I must have missed where this scenario was up for discussion, or how this was what you were referring to. Got a quote?
You didn't miss it. Ignore that statement, sorry.
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Old 03-04-2012, 18:09   #59
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If I ask you if you are armed or have a weapon in the vehicle and you refuse to answer, you're not going to like what happens next. That sounds potentially threatening, and you will be dealt with accordingly.

If you lie to me about having a weapon on you or in your vehicle and I catch you, I'm going to charge you with every possible violation I can.

Lying or withholding information from an officer about a weapon on your person is a really stupid game.
Agreed that would be silly to not tell an officer about a weapon on your person when he asks. Besides, in my state, the condition of my permit requires me to answer the officer truthfully when he asks about my permit or my weapon. Not a problem here.
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Old 03-04-2012, 19:03   #60
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Nothing to see there.

My goodness, you guys don't even know your rights.

Please don't post disorderly, obstructing statutes unless you support them to apply to anyone and everyone (including yourself) whenever the officer decides he doesn't like something. Instead post the lying statutes (the one I asked for) where the penalty is for telling the lying, not to impending, obstructing, violating, stopped, hindering, or resisting an official process.

When an officer asks "Where are you coming from?" he is not asking in an official capacity. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION TRUTHFUL ELSE GET ARRESTED FOR LYING. Just don't answer, like I said.

If your state requires you to appropriately respond about your weapon and your permit, you need to do so because there are laws that penalize you for doing so. If not required in your state, there is no lying statute that will snag you if you don't.

IANAL
Here the Obstructing without Violence Statute, FSS 843.02 is regularly used for instance when someone lies about their identity. For practical purposes offering some act without violence that obstructs the officer's ability to perform his duties is defined as a crime by this statute. I remain quite confident that someone who lies about not having a gun while having contact with the police in Florida risks arrest and prosecution. My position is that lying to the officer in Florida is not in and of itself a crime, but lying about something that effectively hinders the officer is a crime.
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