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Old 02-29-2012, 06:46   #26
swinokur
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Counties in Northern Va are doing just that. They are practicing MWAG scenarios because OC is totally legal in VA.You may disagree with a particular religion but you have the right to do that, just as others can practice that religion. Should we abolish the 1st Amendment?

Nah.


Sometimes you gotta rock the boat a bit to move forward.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:12   #27
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Since the OP looks like he's searching for opinions (possibly wrong on that but here goes)....

In My Humble Opinion:

OC = First Target

You might as well be wearing a tee shirt with a bullseye on the front and back.

There is a tactical advantage to concealed carry and if you ever have to pull your weapon from it's holster, you'll need every advantage possible to survive the situation.

YMMV

Have a nice day.

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Old 02-29-2012, 07:43   #28
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:23   #29
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Folks, please stay on topic.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:31   #30
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Thankfully, this country has brave people who choose to exercise their rights. I think that many police officers are beginning to come to grips with the idea that open carry does not necessarily equal danger. We may soon see departments who are actively training their officers on the legality of the same.
Pa. MPOETC training already has.

http://www.mpoetc.state.pa.us/portal...ty/mpoetc/7545

Training documents.
http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkb...pdate_2009.pdf

Last edited by Jud325; 02-29-2012 at 09:36..
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:44   #31
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Folks, please stay on topic.
My bad - should have found a more suitable thread.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:32   #32
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A lethal force action? Is that like murder death kill where you cease his life functions?

This isn't Demolition Man, you can call a shooting a shooting.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:52   #33
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Not this again.......
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:25   #34
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well hope OC does not pass in Missouri on any of the new bills for new pre emption!
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:40   #35
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Man, those abolitionists, and those women's suffrage fruitcakes, or those civil rights guys. What's with them? No wonder police are pissed off at these people walking around trying to free the slaves or saying crazy stuff like "women should be able to vote," and "repeal Jim Crow laws." I don't blame the cops for being angry when some uppity negro wants to eat in the white section....

And those open carry wackos! Thinking that people can just walk around, with guns right out in plain sight, like it's their right! It's like they think they're just as good as government officials!

To say that Open Carry is acceptable to be practiced because it is legal is one thing.

Comparing the OCers who walk around with cameras looking for confrontations with the public/police to Rosa Parks or the Civil Rights movement is absolutely ridiculous.

Carry gun laws are on a huge upswing over the last 25 years. Almost every state in the country allows concealed carry in one form or another compared to 50 years ago when those laws were almost non existent.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:57   #36
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Comparing the OCers who walk around with cameras looking for confrontations with the public/police to Rosa Parks or the Civil Rights movement is absolutely ridiculous.
Please actually explain how the comparison is ridiculous instead of just asserting that it is. The Rosa Parks event was planned out well beforehand to provoke a confrontation, in case you didn't realize. She, like OCers, was trying to provoke a confrontation to publicly highlight opposition to her exercise of her civil rights.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:02   #37
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well hope OC does not pass in Missouri on any of the new bills for new pre emption!
Recognize in yourself the power of the totalitarian instinct. It is an instinct to which people on all parts of the political spectrum are susceptible.

It's not enough for you to simply say that you don't like open carry, and to not do it. You support state enforcement of your preferences on other people. You can't be happy that other people are out there living their lives in ways you don't agree with and you're willing to support the use of state power to keep people living the way you want them to live. Welcome to the totalitarian club. It has a lot of famous members.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:04   #38
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That's your choice, of course. Others make different ones. Beauty of a (relatively) free country.

As to the 'first to get a bullet comment', care to share ONE documented incident of this happening?
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Not looking for an argument,just giving an opinion.........
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:09   #39
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Open carriers and concealed carriers are both doing the same thing....carrying a gun. Michigan Open Carry is the only group I have seen in Michigan actually trying to get a bill past that would eliminate the concealed pistol free zones (open carry in these places is legal). Open carriers fights for the right to carry concealed just as much as they fight for the right to open carry. Wish more concealed carriers were the same way.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:18   #40
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Please actually explain how the comparison is ridiculous instead of just asserting that it is. The Rosa Parks event was planned out well beforehand to provoke a confrontation, in case you didn't realize. She, like OCers, was trying to provoke a confrontation to publicly highlight opposition to her exercise of her civil rights.
Open Carry is legal in the states that these videos take place. The rights are already there.

Don't take me wrong - I am not saying Open Carry is ridiculous.

Gun rights as a whole are on a HUGE upswing. I disagree with people who intentionally go out in public with cameras and attempt to provoke negative confrontations with either the public or police. Confrontations with an aggressive and antagonistic tone while wearing a firearm is not going to go over well with the general public and may hurt gun rights down the road. It's also a common theme in these videos that the OCers say they "know the law", but are clearly violating it. One video specifically comes to mind when an officer is interviewing a group and an OCer with a camera walks up in a quick manner and begins to stand just feet away - even without the camera and gun, the OCer would have been in the wrong.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:26   #41
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i do support OC
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well hope OC does not pass in Missouri
Which is it? Or is it you support Open Carry, but only as long as it is "not-in-my-backyard"?
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:31   #42
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Both

I've had a CC permit since LA first allowed them in the mid 90's, and virtually always am armed, and concealed.

Although LA is an OC state, it's not at all common here and I wouldn't think of doing it, except when hunting.

I have a daughter and family who live in NM, am there on a fairly frequent basis. I have to say it is nice to occasionally get out of the car, pump gas, go into a store....not having to worry about covering up.

My point: there's a place for OC, but day in and day out, all the advantages: safety, tactical surprise and discretion are on the side of CC.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:33   #43
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Open Carry is legal in the states that these videos take place. The rights are already there.

Don't take me wrong - I am not saying Open Carry is ridiculous.

Gun rights as a whole are on a HUGE upswing. I disagree with people who intentionally go out in public with cameras and attempt to provoke negative confrontations with either the public or police. Confrontations with an aggressive and antagonistic tone while wearing a firearm is not going to go over well with the general public and may hurt gun rights down the road.
Since you say you don't think open carry is ridiculous, then I can't disagree with you. I certainly am not going to give blanket approval to even poorly thought-out attempts at confrontation.

However, not all open carry exercise, even when the person provokes a confrontation, is wrong or poorly thought out. There are still cities and states where open carry is technically legal, but where a person cannot expect to be able to go about his business carrying openly without being harassed. I feel for those people and I don't blame them for being prepared with video phone or camera when it happens.

I'm not familiar with the event you mention:

Quote:
It's also a common theme in these videos that the OCers say they "know the law", but are clearly violating it. One video specifically comes to mind when an officer is interviewing a group and an OCer with a camera walks up in a quick manner and begins to stand just feet away - even without the camera and gun, the OCer would have been in the wrong.
Can you say more about that? What law is being violated? Open carry is legal in Ohio and I am unaware of any law that would prevent me from approaching a police officer while open carrying and using a camera while he is "interviewing a group," whatever that means. As far as I know, if the police officer is conducting his business in a public place, I have a right to be there and he has no expectation of a right to privacy.

Full disclosure: I've open carried a grand total of once off my property. It was in a situation (mock train robbery) where wearing a six-shooter was unremarkable and it was loaded with blanks at the time. But it was a real gun, and could have been loaded with live ammo. Somebody jokingly asked me "Do you have a permit for that gun?" and I told them "I don't need one." I don't know if he realized that was completely true even if the train robbery hadn't been going on.

Mostly, I'm not the "go out and provoke a scene" type and I prefer to carry concealed, but I support the rights of those who do open carry. I think they're doing us all a favor, not a disservice.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:36   #44
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I think acting confrontational in any way when openly carrying a firearm is very serious no matter who you are. I'm all about personal liberty, and when officers draw their weapons without what I consider to be a justifiable reason (everyone has their own opinion on what is justifiable, flame me if you want... i'm not trying to cop bash) I find it extremely upsetting.

BUT two wrongs don't make a right. As much as I support gun rights, guns are not toys any anyone who handles one needs to take the responsibility associated with them seriously.

If I was a cop and someone was acting confrontational while openly carrying, I would be extremely concerned. In fact I'd feel the same way I feel about police pointing guns at citizens who have not exhibited any aggressive behavior. Guns are serious business, don't let your familiarity with them cause you to forget that. Just my $.02
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:42   #45
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I think acting confrontational in any way when openly carrying a firearm is very serious no matter who you are.
I've read a saying: "You can have a gun, or you can have a temper. You can't have both."

I agree with you that when you're carrying a gun, you have a great responsibility to stay cool and act maturely.

However, there is a big difference between "acting confrontational" and "provoking a confrontation." In some cities, simply walking down the street with a gun on your hip is sufficient to "provoke a confrontation" even if you remain cool and calm.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:46   #46
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Folks, please stay on topic.
Folks,Please stay on topic.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:47   #47
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Which is it? Or is it you support Open Carry, but only as long as it is "not-in-my-backyard"?
Yes i support it but i dont support it if the ignorance of others keep trying to instagate issues all the time with video recorders.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:51   #48
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Apologies if this angle has been covered... but, I'm very glad my beloved state of Virginia has legal open carry. I only OC when hunting but it is awfully nice to know that if I lose concealment in public, I'm not going to face the possibility of getting hit with a brandishing charge.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:56   #49
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Yes i support it but i dont support it if the ignorance of others keep trying to instagate issues all the time with video recorders.
Ignorance? How so? What do you mean?
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:59   #50
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Yes i support it but i dont support it if the ignorance of others keep trying to instagate issues all the time with video recorders.
Don't you mean you support open carry, but you do not support the people who "keep trying to instagate issues all the time with video recorders?"
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