[crash09]

Originally Posted by Sam Spade

How much of this stems from the fact that your CCW didn't get you out of a ticket as it has before?

That was the first thing that came to mind when I started reading this thread...

[Sam Spade]

Originally Posted by Bruce M

And at the risk of being repetitive, does the officer have any obligation to offer his reasonably articulated suspicion at the scene of a traffic stop and if he elects to not offer it at that point does that make the stop invalid or his performance unprofessional?

No, we don't. Sometimes it's good relations, sometimes it only invites an argument. (Remember, this was posted WRT the frisk and order to step out of the car.)

Explaining the traffic violation is different. At the least, it'll appear on the ticket. All departments I know encourage the officer to reveal that up front.

[RussP]

dwalker84, I have a good friend with Tucson PD. He just told me they have not had motor units on the streets at night for over a year now because of budget cuts. They are only out during the day.

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by RussP

dwalker84, I have a good friend with Tucson PD. He just told me they have not had motor units on the streets at night for over a year now because of budget cuts. They are only out during the day.

dwalker84 it seems there is the implication you are a liar. Your lack of response confirms this implication.....

[RussP]

Originally Posted by RussP

dwalker84, I have a good friend with Tucson PD. He just told me they have not had motor units on the streets at night for over a year now because of budget cuts. They are only out during the day.

No, I'm not implying anything, just stating the fact as it was given to me.

If you look at dwalker's posting history, you'll see that there are times when he's gone a few days without logging in on GT. Do not read too much into his absence. He's got a lot more going on in his life than Glock Talk.

[MinnesnowtaWild]

Originally Posted by AA#5

I don't disagree with that, but.....how would you answer the typical cop's question, "Are there any weapons in the vehicle?"

I would answer yes, because I am required to in Minnesota. If they don't ask, I don't tell.

[F_G]

Unless I missed it, was the question ever answered as to how long the registration was expired?

[birda40]

Why the length of experiation being questioned one day , 30 days , if he was stopped prior wouldn't there be a warning ticket? Not trying to start an argument.

[SCmasterblaster]

I am glad that the LEO didn't have an ND with your G17. Whew!!!

[Bruce M]

Originally Posted by birda40

Why the length of experiation being questioned one day , 30 days , if he was stopped prior wouldn't there be a warning ticket? Not trying to start an argument.

I am not familiar with AZ laws but here expired for only a short time is a noncriminal infraction but expired for a longer time increases the issue to a criminal traffic offense, specifically a misdemeanor. My opinion is that the amount of time passed between the expiration and the offense can be used to examine someone's decision making process. Stopped on Sunday when the registration expired at midnight on Saturday night, to me, does not show a flagrant disregard, while driving on a six month expired registration with no insurance and a suspended driver's license peaks some interest.

[AA#5]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

I am glad that the LEO didn't have an ND with your G17. Whew!!!

That's because both the LEO and the OP were professional enough to handle a Glock.

[repo4sale]

Originally Posted by dwalker84

So, out of the few times I've been pulled over carrying - I have always been treated very respectfully, infact, most of the times my CCW positively effected the stop, the majority of the times resulting with no ticket, and a friendly conversation.... Well tonight was different.

First off, my registration was expired; I deserved the ticket I received completely. I shouldn't have put off going to get my emissions done, but with my hectic work schedule and newborn I procrastinated. Either way, I deserved to be pulled over and ticketed, period.

That said...

My fiance and I we're out on our date night that we get maybe once every month. Her mother is kind enough to take the kids for us for free so we can atleast get 2-3 hours alone. We drove up to Gates pass to watch the city lights, then proceeded to town to get some coffee before heading back to the house.

I should have known better than to drive into downtown on a Saturday, oh well.

A Motorcycle officer got behind me and immediately threw on his lights. I pulled over and stopped within 10 seconds, and never removed my hands from the wheel. He approaches, says "Why were you and the passenger moving around and fidgeting???" My hands never left the wheel from the time he pulled behind me, and my Fiance had her hands in her lap the entire time. I said "We never moved officer?" I found this odd, his demeanor was aggressive from the get-go. "License and Registration." and the first thing out of my mouth is "Officer, just so you're aware I'm carrying a concealed weapon, here's my CCW permit." as I handed him my ID and CCW. He asked me where it was, and I said 1:00 Oclock, appendix carry. He looked at me like "Huh?" but I certainly wasn't going to point :p - I did this as a courtesy, as I do every time - so the officer isn't surprised. In AZ we have constitutional carry so I don't need a permit, nor did I need to make him aware of it out of respect. He gets on the radio and says something along the lines of "Yeah hes got a gun..."

Suddenly another officer pops up on the right side of the car which startled my fiance.


The first officer immediately got more aggravated and nervous, as if presenting my ccw was a threat. As I was looking through my paperwork for my insurance he says "Okay!! Alright, get out of the car, right now!!" I never once made any movements that would have been construed as going for my gun, but this guy was on the aggressive from the start.

I got out of the car, with my hands at chest level, put my hands on the roof, spread my legs. He frisked around my waist and unholstered my G17. He sees that I'm carrying a knife and says "Oh look! This guy is carrying TWO KNIVES!" In a tone like how DARE he carry two knives! How dare he carry a firearm! I have a SD knife, and a work knife that I use to open boxes on the job. I'm glad he didn't notice the extra magazines on my waste, for as much concern he had that I was going to injure him, he did an awful job frisking me, actually he never frisked me.. at all.

As I'm looking across the car, the other officer looks me in the eyes, with this kind of "I'm sorry." look and body language. He hadn't said anything the entire time - but seemed calm and collected the whole time.

The first officer told me to get back into the car - The 2nd officer started talking to us about what we should expect as far as court and the registration - he was VERY polite and respectful. Infact, I think if he wasn't there - this interaction would have been 20X worse. I wish I had the chance to thank him for treating me like a citizen and not a criminal.

So after the first officer ran my info, he comes back and asks to get in my trunk. At this point I'm livid, and humiliated, and start to think that hes going to try and start searching my car. I ask "Okay, wait, why are you going to search my car??" The 2nd officer explains that hes going to place my weapons in the trunk until they leave. Fine, I pop it. I get out, and goto the trunk. The first officer starts DIGGING through my trunk, looking under my baby stroller, shining his light around, SEARCHING! After about 40 seconds of searching and digging, He pulls out a camo hat from the service, puts my mag, knives, etc. Shows me my gun, that it's clear, and places it in the trunk and shuts it.

I get back in the car, he hands me the ticket, and I asked if his badge number was on the citation, he says yes and leaves.

I don't know who the second officer was, but I thank god he was there. I couldn't imagine how bad this stop would have been if he wasn't. I desperately wish I could have extended a thank you. I am so unbelievably upset right now - This whole interaction was absolutely unnecessary - I gave him no reason to act in this way and I'm so disappointed. I respect law enforcement, infact I look up to them - I have lost a great deal of trust of the police tonight. I would have thought living in one of the most gun friendly states in the US that this wouldn't happen. Bummer.



[Moderator Note - 02-26-2012 at 15:35: Please read post #48 before posting in this thread.]

Sorry about your BAD DAD caused by HIS BAD DAY!

[SpringerTGO]

After reading the OP's first paragraph, I have to wonder. Seriously, how many times has he been pulled over??? I'm not exactly a slow driver, and I ride sport bikes all summer, but I can't speak with anywhere near the OP's authority about being pulled over.

Based on his experience, maybe he has reason to complain. Because he's been pulled over more than anyone I know. Then again, maybe the OP should change his driving habits and register his vehicles. I doubt many people will argue, that if you are getting pulled over often for actual infractions, you need an attitude adjustment.

[RussP]

Originally Posted by SpringerTGO

After reading the OP's first paragraph, I have to wonder. Seriously, how many times has he been pulled over??? I'm not exactly a slow driver, and I ride sport bikes all summer, but I can't speak with anywhere near the OP's authority about being pulled over.

Based on his experience, maybe he has reason to complain. Because he's been pulled over more than anyone I know. Then again, maybe the OP should change his driving habits and register his vehicles. I doubt many people will argue, that if you are getting pulled over often for actual infractions, you need an attitude adjustment.

You read the first paragraph and formed your opinion?

Did you read his previous posts in July 2011 about his driving history, his experiences with law enforcement? You might want to do that...

[kat1950]

Properly going through a sugar rush from all the donuts he stuffed in his face.

[Patchman]

Originally Posted by RussP

dwalker84, I have a good friend with Tucson PD. He just told me they have not had motor units on the streets at night for over a year now. They are only out during the day.

Perhaps, the OP is exercising a little creative artistic license...? To get the point across.

Or is the victim of an impersonator?

[Louisville Glocker]

My last experience with a Tucson motorcycle cop was a good one. He was on his way back to the station at the end of his shift, when he got a call about a possible break-in nearby. He took the call, found a broken window (in my house) and was able to apprehend a burglar hiding in my bathtub. Bags of CD's and other goodies were found just inside the front door. I got the call at work, and came down to verify I didn't know the guy, and to thank the officer.

Job well done. Wonder if it was the same cop. I lived about 2 miles (or less) from where the OP was pulled over.

Cheers,

[argy1182]

File a complaint, file a complaint, file a complaint. This officer was way out of line and their leadership needs to know that. If you let this go, you endorse it. Your expired registration earned you a ticket, but you were treated horribly. That is never ok.

[ScottieG59]

I do not see much to really complain about in this incident. At the very least, I would not call the experience awful. The events as you described them would not have been the cause of any discomfort to me.

Some people are nervous about dealing with law enforcement when all the officer wants to do is establish he is in control of the interaction.

I work in a secure facility in a secure location. I am regularly searched. Though I know I am a threat to nobody and have no illegal items, I may be selected as a potential threat. When that happens, my job is to cooperate and not complicate the process.

You can appear to being doing something suspicious without having any idea. Additionally, if you are in a vehicle with an expired tag, you can expect to stand out more.

I have learned to be very direct and respectful when dealing with law enforcement. I do not try to delve into the reading of emotions too much. My goal is to support them in their duties and not allow my ego to get into the way.

[Bill Lumberg]

Good post Scottie.

[Fragman]

I really didn't see anything untoward in the officers actions. I did think the search of the trunk was a little grey but, the OP popped the trunk and did not stop the search. Therefore, it's constitutional and allowed. Same as if you left the drivers door open and allowed them access.

Also, many, many serious offenders have been caught through routine traffic stops for minor offences.

Attitude is a two way deal. I suspect that when the CCW was displayed and the officer did not immediately change his demeanour and treat you ad 'one of the guys', your body language may have not helped you out. Can't say, I was not there. But, your post has a whiff of entitlement about it.

He has no idea who you are, and a CCW does not release one from traffic law. Nor does it say that you need to be treated any different.

Sorry, just calling it like I see it. I was not there.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kat1950]

You summed it up by saying you Knew you should not be going through downtown, in my 61 years of life I realize there are Times and places we should not be without the chance of a problem, I try and avoid those areas at the times there could be a problem, even if I have to go out of my way, example there is a road that would cut 2 miles off my route home, during the day no problem, at night and especially weekend nights you will be pulled over, no matter what you drive, it is considered a crime spot at night due to crack sales and the congregation of criminal elements, I have been pulled over there once they went through the entire vehicle and detained me for 30 minutes wanting to know what I was doing in that area at night, informed them I was on my way home and my address on my license showed this was the easiest route. Police where brutal, a lot worse than OP post, Saw 2 of the cops in a 7 Eleven 2 days latter, said hello and they did remembered me, where nice as hell, shot the bull for 20 minutes, they apologized for the other night but did inform me to take other routes home at night due to the fact they are geared up for a hassle 90 percent of the time at night in that area and their attitudes are completely different.

Most people would say that is a violation of civil rights, it might be, but when I was a young man in the south 44 years ago you could be beat up by the cops for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and spend a night in jail before seeing the judge the next day and receiving 50.00 fine and 100 hours of community service.All this rambling is due to the fact that I am aware of my surroundings and what limits I put on myself to avoid problems.

I have a CCW but do not use it due to the fact I do not put myself in any situation I would need it. But always have a gun in truck and cars.

[Glockbuster]

Originally Posted by RussP

You read the first paragraph and formed your opinion?

Did you read his previous posts in July 2011 about his driving history, his experiences with law enforcement? You might want to do that...

I have not read about the OP's driving experiences from July but can clearly see he is (was???) a strong advocate of open carry. I wonder what made him change his mind.

[dwalker84]

Originally Posted by RussP

dwalker84, I have a good friend with Tucson PD. He just told me they have not had motor units on the streets at night for over a year now because of budget cuts. They are only out during the day.

Well you're friend is wrong or misinformed. There's motorcycle cops all over the place near 4th Ave on a Saturday night. I've included his badge number, division, and vehicle number. I have no reason or benefit to lie. I've e-mailed TPD to be directed to a supervisor. I will post the response here.

[Southswede]

So yo broke the law and got a ticket. Pay it or go to court.