Glock Talk
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02-22-2012, 18:29
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: U.S.
Posts: 173
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.40 S&W Gold Dot 165gr Fail To Expand
Is this a common problem for 165gr Gold Dot only? I have not yet hear anything like that in the 180gr or 155gr Gold Dots.
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Last edited by linuxi; 02-22-2012 at 18:37..
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02-22-2012, 18:32
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#2
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Need more facts...lots of variables...what was it shot into?
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02-22-2012, 18:36
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#3
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Jugs of water.
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02-22-2012, 18:53
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#4
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Malcontent
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 10,812
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So you found an unexpanded bullet in a water jug?
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02-22-2012, 19:15
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#5
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Actually, my friend did. He found 2 after 5 shots.
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02-22-2012, 19:17
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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It's almost unheard of for a JHP to not expand at all when shot into water only. The 165gr Gold Dot seems to favor penetration over expansion. Maybe too much so. Usually going lighter than "heaviest for caliber" gives you a bigger cavity at the expense of penetration but in this case that is not so.
http://le.atk.com/pdf/GoldDotPoster.pdf
Last edited by cowboy1964; 02-22-2012 at 19:19..
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02-22-2012, 19:31
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#7
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Senior Member
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I've seen that video too. But mine serial# is 53970, it's a more powerful one compare to the one in the video which serial# is 53949.
Does anyone experience something similar with 53970 or 23970 Gold Dots?
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Last edited by linuxi; 02-22-2012 at 19:36..
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02-22-2012, 19:44
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
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I didn't realize the 165gr Gold Dot was available in two velocities. Interesting. 100 fps is a big difference. 20% more muzzle energy.
Last edited by cowboy1964; 02-22-2012 at 19:45..
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02-22-2012, 21:03
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#9
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CLM Number 211
IAFF Local 4766
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SW / West Central Illinois
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At various LE demo shoots over the years I have seen pretty much every brand of every caliber and every bullet weight not expand at one time or the other.
Its not really worth worrying about. No mfg guarantees 100% perfection.
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Keep your guns stashed and your powder dry.
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02-22-2012, 21:07
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#10
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six barrels
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Free Zone
Posts: 4,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpig
At various LE demo shoots over the years I have seen pretty much every brand of every caliber and every bullet weight not expand at one time or the other.
Its not really worth worrying about. No mfg guarantees 100% perfection.
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Oh no, not common sense and experience?
We just can't have that - LOL!
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02-22-2012, 21:11
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxi
Actually, my friend did. He found 2 after 5 shots.
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So he fired 5 shots into the same jugs?
53970 - 50rd box
23970 - 20rd box
Notice the difference in first number only.
The 53949 may be an FBI load or some other load requested by a LEA.(or vice versa) Most of the official tests I've seen on that round were out of a G22 or "full size" gun.
Last edited by dkf; 02-22-2012 at 21:12..
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02-22-2012, 21:31
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: U.S.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf
So he fired 5 shots into the same jugs?
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No, different jugs on one day. 
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GLOCK CERTIFIED ARMORER
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02-23-2012, 02:57
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Indianapolis, IN USA
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What hotpig said.............I have seen not everything, but some good and some suprizes at the range.
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"IN GLOCK WE TRUST"
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02-23-2012, 03:51
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#14
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Diesel Girl
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
Posts: 7,518
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The 165 Gold Dot's are my carry load. Every time I've tested them in the same fashion, I've never had one fail to expand.
As another poster said, no bullet will ever be 100% reliable. There has been enough scientific testing of this load as well as real world feed back on it that was positive. I have no issue with carrying this load and in my opinion, it's one of the best modern loads for the .40 S&W.
The older 165 Gold Dot load that were what Mas used to refer to as the, "-P" loads weren't known for their performance. The newer stuff that develops around 1,150 fps from a 4" barrel is good stuff and is what I have my 229 Sig loaded with always!
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02-23-2012, 06:25
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Luzerne County, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpig
At various LE demo shoots over the years I have seen pretty much every brand of every caliber and every bullet weight not expand at one time or the other.
Its not really worth worrying about. No mfg guarantees 100% perfection.
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But a certain firearm manufacturer strongly implies, "Perfection."
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02-23-2012, 06:48
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: N. Florida
Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breadman03
But a certain firearm manufacturer strongly implies, "Perfection."
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Yeah, well they lie like a rug. 
Folks, there is a reason the .40S&W is known as "the short & weak". 
Just teasing - couldn't resist. 
handguns suck as defensive arms. Most all of them. That a bullet occasionally fails to perform up to expectation should not come as a surprise. That is why we all train "failure to stop" drills. 
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02-23-2012, 16:46
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#17
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Malcontent
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 10,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxi
Actually, my friend did. He found 2 after 5 shots.
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You realize that it would take 10 jugs or more to stop an unexpanted bullet and that keeping it going straight through ten jugs is just about impossible?
__________________
Drugs are bad because if you do drugs you're a hippie and hippies suck.
Eric Cartman
"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting."-General Curtis E. LeMay
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02-23-2012, 18:28
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT
You realize that it would take 10 jugs or more to stop an unexpanted bullet and that keeping it going straight through ten jugs is just about impossible?
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Have to agree T, something isn't right. It takes 3-5 1gal water filled jugs to stop most expanding pistol bullets & solids barely slow down thru all 5.  Anyway, anything can happen when it comes to expanding bullets. One reason I still love the 45acp, it never gets any smaller. 
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"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
Last edited by fredj338; 02-23-2012 at 18:29..
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02-24-2012, 09:47
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#19
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wellfleet MA
Posts: 2,377
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Perhaps it was poor quality water...
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02-24-2012, 10:20
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#20
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CLM Number 211
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Keep your guns stashed and your powder dry.
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02-24-2012, 18:46
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#21
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8========D
Join Date: May 2007
Location: worldwide, on time, on target
Posts: 2,265
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we all know that Gold Dots prefer filtered water. I suggest a retest
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02-25-2012, 09:58
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 1,337
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Certain Gold Dot loads, including the 165gr .40 (fast or slow), don't do well after heavy clothing. Use the 180gr version if you have to drink the bonded bullet koolaid.
Last edited by DRT; 02-25-2012 at 09:59..
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02-25-2012, 14:05
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,526
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It was probably hard water. I have found that the 155gr expands much better in the same test than the 165gr. I was not even impressed without the denim. It penetrates a bit more than the 155gr, but the 155gr penetrates enough and that is what I use.
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02-25-2012, 14:07
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964
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Does anyone know this guy's handle on Glock talk?
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02-25-2012, 15:14
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#25
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John 3:16 <><
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Loxahatchee Fl
Posts: 4,363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim
It was probably hard water. I have found that the 155gr expands much better in the same test than the 165gr. I was not even impressed without the denim. It penetrates a bit more than the 155gr, but the 155gr penetrates enough and that is what I use.
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When carrying my G27 or G23 I use the 155g. Gold Dots as well.
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