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Old 02-15-2012, 08:02   #21
packsaddle
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"If you have probably cause to OC, and you are an active member of Posse Comitatus, you will be given the "secret" handshake by law enforcement personnel and will not be detained."

- UCC 593.1 (a)(5)

Last edited by packsaddle; 02-15-2012 at 08:03..
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:12   #22
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No you guys are not getting it at all,I am not here to argue,I asked it is legal to open carry and you get a call with man with gun,what are you thinking more or less?Why are you detaining say a man at gas pump getting gas if OC is Legal ?Maybe that will make t easier to answer,I am really wondering why all over these forums folks are being detained at locations that are not posted that OC or CCW is not allowed on there property or if one is just say getting gas or standing on there own property.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:24   #23
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Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
The OP is obviously looking for a reason to get mad at cops. Seems odd to come into CopTalk to do it, but whatever floats your boat.

What you're talking about, the "posting" of no guns doesn't matter in the least once someone has asked you to leave. I wear a heavy leather duster in the winter. There's nothing in the least bit legal about that, but if a store manager comes up and says he'd rather I leave because I'm making customers/employees nervous, then it falls on me to leave. There's not going to be a "no duster" sign, but the owner or manager has the right to refuse service and ask me to leave. If I don't, the SECOND I stand there arguing with him, then I'm violating his rights as a property owner and I'm guilty of trespassing.

Just because the LAW says you can open carry, that's not a free pass. If you on someone else's property, you're subject to their rules. If you don't like those rules, then you leave and take your money somewhere else. If you DON'T leave after asked, then you also give up the right to argue that you're not doing anything wrong.

The entire original post is written from a point of view of someone wanting nothing more than to argue. That's a very sad state to live in, in my opinion.
Sorry but i have no reason to get mad at Police Officers,I waterfowl hunt with several,every year for past 20 years,Please dont make statements like that you cant back up.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:24   #24
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Don't feed the troll.

Do a search of the OP's recent history.

Don't feed it.
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:29   #25
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Speaking for myself I'm thinking "****, is this a robbery? Home invasion? Kidnapping that just occurred?"
I'm detaining that individual at the gas pump for the same reason anyone else gets detained: pending a police investigation.

I answered your questions directly. Now find somewhere else to troll.

Last edited by RocPO; 02-15-2012 at 08:30..
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:36   #26
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Originally Posted by TheeBadOne View Post
Don't feed the troll.

Do a search of the OP's recent history.

Don't feed it.

Thank you.... It appears that this poster is doing his best to get banned...
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:37   #27
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Originally Posted by MoneyMaker View Post
No you guys are not getting it at all,I am not here to argue,I asked it is legal to open carry and you get a call with man with gun,what are you thinking more or less?Why are you detaining say a man at gas pump getting gas if OC is Legal ?Maybe that will make t easier to answer,I am really wondering why all over these forums folks are being detained at locations that are not posted that OC or CCW is not allowed on there property or if one is just say getting gas or standing on there own property.
Who is detaining whom? Don't make claims you can't back up.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:46   #28
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:47   #29
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The fact of the matter is that in the society/culture we live in open carry of firearms makes people uncomfortable. I realize there are a few areas around the country where this seems to be an exeption, but generally, this is the case. These uncomfortable people will sometimes call 911 and report a man with a gun. When this happens, it is the duty of LE to respond and investigate the report. Assuming OC is legal in the jurisdiction and you're just Joe Citizen going about his business you'll be sent on your way as quickly as possible.

Another thought from the point of view as a LEO is that if we fail to respond and investigate and this OC'er turns out to be a whacko that shoots up a kindergarten class its going to be our heads that everyone will be screaming for.

Regardless of legalities, open carry of weapons drawns attention from the public and eventually someone is going to get LE involved. Nobody is trying to be a BG. A concerned citizen makes a complaint and its a cop's job to investigate. Simple as that.

From what I've seen here on GT it seems that 99% of OC issues are caused by the OC'er packing a video camera, attitude and agenda along with his pistol. They seem to expect respect and common courtesy, but are unwilling to show any in return.

If contacted by LE while OCing please understand we have a job to do, regardless of how we personally feel about the matter. Just be polite and cooperate and both you and the officer can get on with your business much quicker and with less uncalled for drama.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:51   #30
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Thanks to whom have replied with a serious answer,To the others who say i am trolling it seems you dont have a answer or may not be a police officer,I am debating this with guys on a open carry forum as they seem to me that they are just chest thumpers wanting there group pics taken all the time at starbucks ect.Myself i see it as a deturant and wont get the OC law passed here in missouri,Another question i asked them was do they know 3 types of weapon retention,Do they train for weapon retention and do they fell the need that anyone who Open Carry's should pass a 40 hour course on weapon retention training before just hanging a gun on there side and walking around like John Wayne.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:52   #31
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Originally Posted by Agent6-3/8 View Post
The fact of the matter is that in the society/culture we live in open carry of firearms makes people uncomfortable. I realize there are a few areas around the country where this seems to be an exeption, but generally, this is the case. These uncomfortable people will sometimes call 911 and report a man with a gun. When this happens, it is the duty of LE to respond and investigate the report. Assuming OC is legal in the jurisdiction and you're just Joe Citizen going about his business you'll be sent on your way as quickly as possible.

Another thought from the point of view as a LEO is that if we fail to respond and investigate and this OC'er turns out to be a whacko that shoots up a kindergarten class its going to be our heads that everyone will be screaming for.

Regardless of legalities, open carry of weapons drawns attention from the public and eventually someone is going to get LE involved. Nobody is trying to be a BG. A concerned citizen makes a complaint and its a cop's job to investigate. Simple as that.

From what I've seen here on GT it seems that 99% of OC issues are caused by the OC'er packing a video camera, attitude and agenda along with his pistol. They seem to expect respect and common courtesy, but are unwilling to show any in return.

If contacted by LE while OCing please understand we have a job to do, regardless of how we personally feel about the matter. Just be polite and cooperate and both you and the officer can get on with your business much quicker and with less uncalled for drama.
I want to thank you sir for your answer and i respect what you have said.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:55   #32
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Originally Posted by whoflungdo View Post
Who is detaining whom? Don't make claims you can't back up.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1401819 just example

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...rs-Red-Lobster this guy seems to be a attention getter so it dont help the issue,detain or not but your thoughts on how he is acting about OC all around?

Last edited by MoneyMaker; 02-15-2012 at 09:57..
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:30   #33
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:25   #34
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:48   #35
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Old 02-15-2012, 13:08   #36
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MoneyMaker, I tried to find your posts on opencarry.org to follow your discussion with others,
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyMaker View Post
I am debating this with guys on a open carry forum as they seem to me that they are just chest thumpers wanting there group pics taken all the time at starbucks ect...
but they only show up where people quote what you posted. The other strange thing, when I search for opencarry.org member moneymaker, I get this message: "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

Were you banned there this morning?
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Last edited by RussP; 02-15-2012 at 13:42..
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Old 02-15-2012, 13:32   #37
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Okay, finally found your name on the OCDO Member List, but when I click on "Find latest posts" and "Find latest started threads," I still get, "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."
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Old 02-15-2012, 14:17   #38
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Well if i was it is because i dont agree with the missouri guys,I am a missouri resident and i am for open carry,but i think there should be weapon retention training and certain holster requirements,I dont like that guys wanna parade with video cameras with there 6 inch revolvers hanging off there sides,or have meet and greet at a establishment and then line all the gun toters up to take pictures just to say hey look what we did!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-15-2012, 14:22   #39
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Detained, no, NOT detained! St. Peters Red Lobster

Cop TalkCop Talk
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Well I made it by mom & Dad's before Starbucks tonight to get the wheel gun I keep there since pop wanted one and mom freaks over the XD's not having a safety. I needed it to complete the "cowboy" stereotype for the "M" in case he mustered the courage to actually show up and engage in civil conversation, he did not.

So we call it a night at Starbucks and I head hom to take my lovely maiden out on the town to my least favorite restaurant Red Lobster, sea food is not my thing and the NY strip there is just ok, but it is one of those days it is her choice!

Of course this is the same story for perhaps 300 other folks so there is a huge long wait, 1.5 hours is what we were told. Lucky for us, while we prefer a booth, they have backs on the chairs at the bar so it works too. A couple got up and we took their seats and began our dinner. Now for those reading along, note I am not carrying your regular compact automatic so many of us enjoy, I have a 6" stainless 686-4 hanging off my side, this is a fairly large "Dirty Harry" looking thing.

The couple next to us at the bar are talking a little about it but not negative at all and after perhaps 30 minutes ask if it was indeed a Valentines day gift. I told them no and I had just come from a meeting with friends to help against the Starbucks boycott. Now bear in mind, we stood in the entry for perhaps 20 minutes talking with various persons and have now been seated for perhaps an hour when all of the sudden here are the popo! The conversation went very close to what is below, I did not have my camera on when it started, but did get it turned on during the event, if anything is worth showing, I will upload it but since it was so unexpected I doubt there is anything of value. Here are the events as they unfolded:

Leo: You probably expected us to be here
Me: (some what startled, he snuck up between us when I was not looking, I actually looked down before I realized it was a Leo) uhm, no I certainly did not but I see you are here,
Leo: Well we have had some calls and you at least know why. Can you step outside with us and give us some ID?
Me: Well if I am being officially being detained I will, but I would prefer not to, I want to finish my dinner, and yes sir, I am one of those guys, I am an advocate and a lobbyist, I will cooperate, but I want to finish my dinner.
Leo: Ok, can we see some ID?
Me: Yes, it is in my wallet (stand up and get wallet)
Leo: "thank you, do you have your CCW?"
Me: That is what that is sir, would you like one from another state? I have several?
Leo: "No this is fine" (MO ID) and steps behind me leaving a much smaller and younger officer to my right (strong side)
Me: to second smaller Leo "I am going to go ahead and sit back down, I don't want any of my movements to startle you, I am just going to eat"
Leo2: That's fine sir, we know you are probably a good guy, just got the call"

My lovely maiden: This is kind of stupid
Me: No, they are being polite and just doing their job, just let them do it, it will be fine
Lady who asked about gun earlier: No, it is really stupid, there is three of them and several cars, what a waste of money, you have been here over an hour, what kind of idiot calls the police when nothing is going on.
Me: (I turn a look and sure enough there are three officers) Such is life, they are being nice and just doing their job, I do not blame them, it is just the world we live in now.
Her Husband: Well it is no different than the one I have under my shirt, MO is an OC state, I don't understand what the big deal is.
Me :well I conceal a lot too, we just had a meeting to support Starbucks from the brady boycott tonight or I might have been, I do both.
Leo: Thank you sir (while handing ID back)
Me: Have a good evening

They then proceed over to the managers office in a huddle, all three of them and talk to him, no idea what they said. They then exited and talked in the parking lot. Time at managers office about 15 minutes, time outside about the same. We had finished our meal by then and I apologized to the bar keep for creating any sort of disturbance and he said it was nothing to him and he was thinking about getting his CCW and did I know a good trainer. I told him of Dan Smith at top gun and then also recommended Armed Missouri as well as Ultimate defense as recommended options.

As we exited, the last two police cars were leaving and I waved, both officers waved back and smiled.

KUDO's to the LEO's involved, VERY polite and professional through the entire interaction with me. St Peters is an OC with CCW area, they had no RAS to demand ID, I suppose I could have opted not to do so, but there was little reason not to and if I made that call, they do not have to have much to get RAS and keep me from my food for 20 or so minutes. Since they did not insist I go outside with them, I saw no reason not to make their job easier and MY evening more pleasant by consenting and giving it to them. If they ad insisted on going outside, I would have been far less compliant. I just did not want to mess up a nice evening.

I will write a note to their Chief commending the polite response.

__________________________________________________________________________
Above this line is a lobbyist so he says not myself
This is there top guy on that site and if you read it well,he even states he was video taping the event,Seems he always wants to have a weapon on and a camera running,then promotes himself as the great Leader to get a new gun law passed,To me and if i was a LE i would not wanna have to deal with fellows like this period!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by MoneyMaker; 02-15-2012 at 14:24..
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Old 02-15-2012, 15:18   #40
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When I OC I always have a recording device on me. This is to protect myself. I don't make a big deal out of it, I usually don't refuse ID, whether or not I'm legally obligated to do so or not, I do it as a courtesy to not only the police officer, but to myself as well so I can get on with my day. I don't want to stand there all day and play street lawyer with a LEO, its neither the time or the place for it. If I'm on private property and asked to leave, see ya, I'm not sticking around to get a summons or worse take a ride in a patrol car.
I don't use my audio or video to upload to youtube and cry and whine on the internet that the mean ol police violated me. Ill take appropriate measures with that officers superiors if I feel my rights were trampled. Funny thing is, I've never been "violated" by the police for OC. They have a job to do, and I'm not the guy that wants to make that job anymore difficult than it already is.

OTOH, Monymaker, your post about "Required training" to be able to carry a weapon is utter nonsense IMO. Anyone worth their salt that wants to defend themselves wih a firearm should seek out this training themselves if they desire to be proficient in securing their life. If they don't want to be trained and they want to OC, then the consequences fall on them if they misbehave with their sidearm. Personally I think the government should stay the hell out of my business given I'm not doing anything wrong. Anyway, it is what it is, and I follow the law as close as I can, because I don't like jail.
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