[G21MAN]

I watched a test of 165 gr Ranger T this morning on youtube. It was by Tennessee Outdoors. These two bullets expanded to .86 of an inch through 4 layers of denim and into Sim Test media. The HST 180 grain that he tested the same way only expanded to .78 of an inch. I always thought that the HST expanded more than the Ranger T. Is this an unusual event, or do the Ranger T's expand better than the HST's?

[up1911fan]

Your talking about one bullet each. It's by no means a mean average. Those two and Gold Dot's are the only loads I carry.

[NucPhysics]

Watch the HSTs carefully. They are an excellent round, however, I have seen many of them that had loose metal burs inside the hollow point due to the fact that the jacket isn't bonded to the core. Knowing that loose metal shards don't do well inside a handgun or the magazine, I desided to stick with the Gold Dots.

Maybe I had a couple bad batches, but it was an eye opener. The shards fell out when I tapped the rounds. Just be careful. I still think they are a good round, just spooked me a good one.

[1canvas]

Originally Posted by G21MAN

I watched a test of 165 gr Ranger T this morning on youtube. It was by Tennessee Outdoors. These two bullets expanded to .86 of an inch through 4 layers of denim and into Sim Test media. The HST 180 grain that he tested the same way only expanded to .78 of an inch. I always thought that the HST expanded more than the Ranger T. Is this an unusual event, or do the Ranger T's expand better than the HST's?

one thing is different grain bullets, the difference is to minimal to be a concern. everyone likes the biggets expansion but beyond a certain point is not desirerable for best bullet performance.

[cowboy1964]

Rangers do have incredible expansion usually. I've also seen some spectacular failures. Yes, any JHP can fail to expand but I seem to see a higher incidence of it with Rangers. You virtually never see such failures like that with HSTs and for the most part Gold Dots.

Winchester Ranger T-Series 9mm +P+ 127 gr JHP AMMO TEST - YouTube

Winchester Ranger T-Series 9mm +P+ 127 gr JHP AMMO TEST - YouTube

I think HST is a more consistent performer, and performs almost like a bonded through barriers.

[PghJim]

I like the 165 Ranger T. As said, you cannot go by the expansion of a couple of bullets. Part of my preference is that I like the 155-165gr. bullets in a 40. And that my be the question you have to answer yourself. Both bullets are excellent.

[barth]

[9mm +p+]

ANY bullet can fail, period. I run Ranger's in my 9's and 45's and have complete faith in them, they're good enough to protect the pres so I figure they're good enough for me.

[AWESOMO 4000]

I prefer the Ranger T's in 9mm and .357SIG; .40 and up I like the HST. HST's seem to expand once they encounter anything, Rangers seem to get plugged sometimes with debris and become a really fast FMJ, or half of it opens, the other half folds over.

I also have a nice 125gr JHP Ranger T in .357SIG that was received installed backwards.

One nice thing about the HST, they seem to have more of a ball-type profile to them, so feeding should be aided if there's any issues there.

[JBP55]

Hard to go wrong with Gold Dot, HST, Ranger T.

[donsls6]

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+

ANY bullet can fail, period. I run Ranger's in my 9's and 45's and have complete faith in them, they're good enough to protect the pres so I figure they're good enough for me.

Amen. I too also have used HST's and seem to be more accurate with it but also have the Ranger's. Can't go wrong with either round.

[cowboy1964]

I've always wondered if the smaller cavity on the Ranger is what (seemingly) makes them more prone to fail to expand.

I will note that even in the video above where it failed to expand it still produced a rather impressive wound channel considering.

[hotpig]

Originally Posted by cowboy1964

I've always wondered if the smaller cavity on the Ranger is what (seemingly) makes them more prone to fail to expand.

I will note that even in the video above where it failed to expand it still produced a rather impressive wound channel considering.

I have been to dozens of factory sponsored shoots by all of the major LE brands. Ranger is no more prone than any of the others. It s a crap shoot on all of them. So long as they keep putting holes in the nose of bullets failure to feed or failure to expand are going to happen.

[five-0]

Originally Posted by hotpig

I have been to dozens of factory sponsored shoots by all of the major LE brands. Ranger is no more prone than any of the others. It s a crap shoot on all of them. So long as they keep putting holes in the nose of bullets failure to feed or failure to expand are going to happen.

+1

See post #10.

[High Altitude]

As long as you have reliability, use any premium JHP self defense ammo.

Spend your time on training instead of wondering whether ranger t is better than HST or if Gold Dot is better etc.......

Give me HST, Ranger T, Gold Dot etc... I don't care which one as long as the ammo feeds/fires/ejects reliably.

[NEOH212]

Originally Posted by G21MAN

I watched a test of 165 gr Ranger T this morning on youtube. It was by Tennessee Outdoors. These two bullets expanded to .86 of an inch through 4 layers of denim and into Sim Test media. The HST 180 grain that he tested the same way only expanded to .78 of an inch. I always thought that the HST expanded more than the Ranger T. Is this an unusual event, or do the Ranger T's expand better than the HST's?

With those numbers, I don't think the difference in expansion really matters that much. They are both great rounds and I wouldn't hesitate to carry either one. Also, your comparing a 180 grain bullet of a different type to a 165 grain bullet of a different type. I would like to see the 165 grain version HST put up against the 165 grain T-series, as well as the 180 versions. I would be willing to bet that there wouldn't be much difference in expansion then.

IMHO, these two rounds are like comparing apples to apples. Your good to go either way.

[NEOH212]

Originally Posted by JBP55

Hard to go wrong with Gold Dot, HST, Ranger T.

[NEOH212]

Originally Posted by up1911fan

Your talking about one bullet each. It's by no means a mean average. Those two and Gold Dot's are the only loads I carry.

Same here!

[Brasso]

People tend to get too wrapped up in expansion and penetration numbers anyway. The difference between .78 and .86 is so small and insignificant as to be absolutely meaningless in real life.

[pisc1024]

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+

ANY bullet can fail, period. I run Ranger's in my 9's and 45's and have complete faith in them, they're good enough to protect the pres so I figure they're good enough for me.

Rangers are not issued to the USSS. They use Speer GD's

[Tiro Fijo]

Originally Posted by Brasso

...The difference between .78 and .86 is so small and insignificant as to be absolutely meaningless in real life.

I know a couple of women who would argue that point.

[packinaglock]

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo

I know a couple of women who would argue that point.

Did you date my ex wife?

[cowboy1964]

Couple of points:

1) You can easily get a variation of .08" or more from shot to shot of the same ammo.

2) The more a given caliber expands, the less penetration it will have, generally speaking. There is no free lunch.

3) Sometimes the final expansion of a bullet is not the maximum it achieved as it passed through the medium. The petals can curl back, reducing the final diameter.

4) Rangers seem to have big expansion because of those little spikes sticking out from the petals. I think something could be said about the cutting effect of those little nasties.

[9mm +p+]

Originally Posted by pisc1024

Rangers are not issued to the USSS. They use Speer GD's

Well they were at one point, Winchester made the 125/357 Sig T load for the SS contract. My folks neighbor works for the SS and this is what he told my father several years ago when i had him ask.