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Old 02-12-2012, 17:18   #1
dwalker84
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TSD Combat Systems G17 Red Dot system review

I just recently received my G17 TSD Combat Systems upper, and I have to say this is by far the most amazing pistol I've ever shot.

I have relitively bad eyesight, and it makes distance shots, well really any shots that involve the front sight very very difficult. I had pretty much given up on practicing past 10 yards as my eyes just couldn't do it. This has all changed. I am able to produce 1.5 inch groups at 25 yards standing. I was also able to hit my steel target (12x8 inches) at roughly 150 yards with a 90% hit ratio. This was absolutely impossible for me before.

I truly believe in 5-10 years, the majority of CCW weapons will be sporting some kind of RMR type red dot. The producers claim that it's like "Cheating" well, they're right, it is cheating - and I have no problem with it. I will take every advantage I can in a fight. Had the CCW carrier at the IHOP shooting been equipped with a red dot pistol, I bet he could have easily ended the threat with confidence. This system changes the very way I look at the defensive pistol. My confidence level has sky rocketed.

My favorite part of the RMR is the training aspect - it REALLY shows the error's in your trigger pull and grip. I've already improved my trigger press. You can see every little movement.

I was very uneasy about the purchase at first, as I'm a one pistol, one long gun kind of guy, who has never spent more than 600.00 on a firearm, but the moment I zero'd the RMR in and hit my target perfectly centered at 25 yards with a shoot-n-see target I knew it was worth every penny and more. I wanted to originally send my RTF slide to them to have it milled for the RMR - as it would have been cheaper then then purchasing the whole upper, I was also leary about purchasing an aftermarket slide. They claim the slide is harder steel throughout, and better all around then the OEM, wether this is true or not, it is a very high quality aftermarket slide. Either way, it has been MORE reliable than my OEM unit. I had several erratic ejections, and 1 FTF's with my OEM unit in 2,000 rounds. I was going to buy used from one of GT's members, but was in a car accident, I ended up having to spend the 1300.00 I saved on medical bills (If you're reading this, you're a good man. Thank you for understanding, I hope you found a buyer) - I was so devastated as I had been saving for months - a relative came through for me and purchased it for me - I am so grateful. It's amazing to have a good caring family. The good news is that by purchasing directly from the company, if I ever use this pistol in self defense, and my weapon goes to evidence, they will give me a loaner TSD RMR pistol until I can get mine out of evidence. Now that is pretty darn amazing.

In the week that I've had it, I've put 750 rounds through it with zero malfunctions, perfect 4 o'clock ejections, and tack driver accuracy.

I just wanted to share my purchase, as I can truly say this pistol is game changing, and would recommend it to anyone that wants the best of the best.

I was lucky enough to receive their first batch of Melonite treated slides in Black - which I find more attractive then the current stainless steel version.

Here's some pictures:

Sights, Optics and LasersSights, Optics and LasersSights, Optics and Lasers
My Dale Fricke Seraphim holster for RMR equipped Glock 17.
Sights, Optics and Lasers
These were my last two rounds of Speer Gold Dot 124G - I had two rounds left before leaving the range and decided to see how close my zero was at 25 yards (Max distance at this range) On the upper left hand corner of the target is a 4x2.5 inch miniature version of the target. With my eye sight + irons this shot would be VERY difficult for me to make, but, very easy with the RMR. This was a double tap, standing, aggressive forward isosceles position. This may be an easy shot for some of you and not impressive, but for ME, it is.

I was so excited about my new toy I had to post a review. Thanks for reading, be safe out there.

Edit: I forgot to mention: Every thing but the slide and barrel is stock, every internal is stock and I'm using a 4.5lb "-" glock connector. I tried using my glock barrel, but found that the TSD barrel is more accurate - I could go without the threaded barrel as it tends to dig in my leg - I will probably never own a suppressor, as I don't see the need. I'll keep it on for now though.'
Also: Those with stigmatisms be warned: The dot will not be perfectly round, if I don't have my contacts/glasses I see a compact cluster of several tiny dots. As does my fiance. When I put my glasses on, it's perfectly round and crystal clear. It's completely functional without my glasses, but it gives me incentive to put my contacts in daily.

Last edited by dwalker84; 02-12-2012 at 17:28..
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Old 02-12-2012, 17:24   #2
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MAN Im so jealous LOL I was just on the TSD site the other day and then I looked at the price of them and was like OMG.. guess thats out of the question LOL... congrats on getting it, and sharing your feedback Id love to have one, maybe someday I will be able to afford one.. id just like to get a red dot sight for my stock glock... LOL
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Old 02-12-2012, 17:34   #3
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Very nice, I have a similar reflex sight on top of an ACOG. What does RMR stand for?
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Old 02-12-2012, 17:39   #4
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Fan-freaking-tastic sir! Love it. I saw over at warriortalk that you had gotten the new melonite slide. I got my cerakoted OD green when I ordered it. I don't like the steel slide look, others do.

BTW, great shooting. I can't double tap that tight at 25 yards....even with my RMR Glock lol.
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Old 02-12-2012, 17:40   #5
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Saw your post over at WT too, and I am really happy you have found your nirvana. Awesome pistol, and yes, a true game changer. I've been rumaging through the safe to see what I can peal off to get my own. I'm thinking full size too, then chopping the grip to compact as it hides better for me. I do like the stability IWB of the longer slide, but with the RMR, that's about the only reason for the full length slide IMHO. Oh, and mine will be an RTF2 also.
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Old 02-12-2012, 17:41   #6
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Wow that looks amazing. I don't have that much $$ to spend on a whole new upper, but say I wanted to run one on a Glock 23 or S&W M&P9

Which RMR would you buy for concealed carry? No batteries to go out?

Do you have to mill the slide or can it be fit on the rear sight dovetail?
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Old 02-12-2012, 18:00   #7
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Very nice, I have a similar reflex sight on top of an ACOG. What does RMR stand for?
(Ruggedized Miniature Reflex)
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Old 02-12-2012, 18:17   #8
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Originally Posted by 3000fps View Post
Wow that looks amazing. I don't have that much $$ to spend on a whole new upper, but say I wanted to run one on a Glock 23 or S&W M&P9

Which RMR would you buy for concealed carry? No batteries to go out?

Do you have to mill the slide or can it be fit on the rear sight dovetail?
Thanks for the kind words =)

I got the RM02 which is battery only - the battery has a suggested life of 2 years, 17,000 hours. It has been suggested to change it once a year on your birthday just to be save. I bought a 2 pack at Lowes for 4.50cents. Super cheap.

They have a tritium version which requires no batteries and uses the surrounding light+the tritium to illuminate the dot. I don't like this idea. They also have an adjustable version which changes the brightness. I don't see the point unless you play with nightvision. I can see the dot in a completely dark room - the dot gets bigger, but it's completely usable in low light.

You do not have to mill the slide - but from what I've seen and read, it's best to mill it so you can have back up iron sights to co-witness with the unit. It allows for you to pick up the dot faster, and in the event the RMR fails, you have a backup. They have attachments to mount it directly to the rear dovetail, but unless you don't have the funds, it's an inferior system but it WILL work - Having the suppressor sights really help pick up the dot on the draw, or during followup shots. If you do mount it using the rear sight it will still be incredibly beneficial and quick - but I personally would do it the correct way though. It doesn't cost that much more to have it done right - but I highly highly recommend going though OST to have it milled. I have seen some nasty looking jobs done by "gunsmiths".
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Old 02-12-2012, 18:22   #9
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Originally Posted by Officer's Match View Post
Saw your post over at WT too, and I am really happy you have found your nirvana. Awesome pistol, and yes, a true game changer. I've been rumaging through the safe to see what I can peal off to get my own. I'm thinking full size too, then chopping the grip to compact as it hides better for me. I do like the stability IWB of the longer slide, but with the RMR, that's about the only reason for the full length slide IMHO. Oh, and mine will be an RTF2 also.
Do it! you won't regret it.

I used to always go for the compact/subcompact glocks, but I've found the fullsize conceals really well with the Dale Fricke holster - I shoot better with the fullsize, and like not having my hand/finger's hanging off the pistol. The RTF2 is definitely the way to go - I absolutely love it - my hand is glued to the frame. It can be uncomfortable, I took very fine sand paper to mine to take off the sharp points.

I'm not sure if you have experience altering polymer frames, but if you're not going to do it yourself, send it to me and I will do it for you for a great price. PM me.
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Old 02-12-2012, 18:56   #10
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Originally Posted by lyodbraun View Post
MAN Im so jealous LOL I was just on the TSD site the other day and then I looked at the price of them and was like OMG.. guess thats out of the question LOL... congrats on getting it, and sharing your feedback Id love to have one, maybe someday I will be able to afford one.. id just like to get a red dot sight for my stock glock... LOL
I had the exact same reaction. With two children and being the sole provider, I live paycheck to paycheck, with a fairly good salary. I rarely if ever get anything for myself. I saved up for a few months - a little here, a little there.
You can do it, I can honestly promise you that it will alter your shooting ability and confidence level big time. You could go the slide milling route, and find a cheap RMR - I've seen them go for as low as 399.00. I don't know the exact price on the milling, but don't go cheap - get it done from Bowie or OST.

Also - Look at the full stock package - They take a stock pistol of your choice, mill the slide, and install suppressor sights. That package is 1250.00 - Which is the price for the OST Upper alone. I was about to go that route, so I had two complete pistols - They didn't have any in stock so I didn't want to wait. But I actually found the OST slide and barrel to be BETTER than stock, which suprised me. I have always been an avid stock only person - I would buy something aftermarket like a connector, and quickly remove it as I worried about reliability - Silly, maybe, but that's how I am. I have 100% confidence in the OST product.

Last edited by dwalker84; 02-12-2012 at 19:03..
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Old 02-12-2012, 20:39   #11
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Do it! you won't regret it.

I used to always go for the compact/subcompact glocks, but I've found the fullsize conceals really well with the Dale Fricke holster - I shoot better with the fullsize, and like not having my hand/finger's hanging off the pistol. The RTF2 is definitely the way to go - I absolutely love it - my hand is glued to the frame. It can be uncomfortable, I took very fine sand paper to mine to take off the sharp points.

I'm not sure if you have experience altering polymer frames, but if you're not going to do it yourself, send it to me and I will do it for you for a great price. PM me.
I actually think the stock RTF2 is perfect. Mine is a G22 w' gills, and I also have a LWD 40-9 barrel. And I'd wait on the chop 'til after I had it in a Seraphim to be sure I need/want to proceed.
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Old 02-12-2012, 21:51   #12
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I actually think the stock RTF2 is perfect. Mine is a G22 w' gills, and I also have a LWD 40-9 barrel. And I'd wait on the chop 'til after I had it in a Seraphim to be sure I need/want to proceed.
I'm not a big guy by any means and I can conceal the g17 pretty easily with just a polo and a dale fricke. I do alot of grip chops for customers and while I see the benefits, I would never do it personally. Hope you get your rmr soon!
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Old 02-12-2012, 22:05   #13
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I forgot to post this video;

Tsd glock, 100 yard shot - first round. Sexy


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Old 02-13-2012, 18:29   #14
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Very cool. I just ordered my tsd slide last week and cant wait for it to get here.

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Old 02-19-2012, 23:26   #15
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when shooting with the RMR, do you place the dot on top of the front sight or "bury" the sight with the dot? When shooting mine, I have placed the dot on top of the sight and had to place the dot at the throat of the target to get upper chest hits.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:11   #16
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when shooting with the RMR, do you place the dot on top of the front sight or "bury" the sight with the dot? When shooting mine, I have placed the dot on top of the sight and had to place the dot at the throat of the target to get upper chest hits.
The dot and the irons are independent sighting systems. BUIS are not strictly required, but generally recommended, particularly for a carry gun.

I have installed hundreds of these (actually hundreds for TSD alone***) and the vast majority were with the Ameriglo suppressor sights.

When the RMR is zeroed (I bore sight them to get you on paper), the dot typically sits right on the front sight post with the sight picture aligned for the irons.
If you are holding high with the dot (throat to get COM hits) then adjust elevation so that at the range you want to zero at POA = POI.

Being relatively parallax free, the dot does not have to be centered in the window to represent POA/POI. So in use, its relationship to the BUIS is not that important.
If you are presenting the gun with good iron sight alignment the dot is going to be right there for you. Another reason to have BUIS is to reduce the time to be up to speed with the RMR.





***I am no longer associated with TSD or SI
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:06   #17
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The dot and the irons are independent sighting systems. BUIS are not strictly required, but generally recommended, particularly for a carry gun.

I have installed hundreds of these (actually hundreds for TSD alone***) and the vast majority were with the Ameriglo suppressor sights.

When the RMR is zeroed (I bore sight them to get you on paper), the dot typically sits right on the front sight post with the sight picture aligned for the irons.
If you are holding high with the dot (throat to get COM hits) then adjust elevation so that at the range you want to zero at POA = POI.

Being relatively parallax free, the dot does not have to be centered in the window to represent POA/POI. So in use, its relationship to the BUIS is not that important.
If you are presenting the gun with good iron sight alignment the dot is going to be right there for you. Another reason to have BUIS is to reduce the time to be up to speed with the RMR.





***I am no longer associated with TSD or SI
Thank you for your reply, I will work with it this weekend.
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Old 03-03-2012, 22:51   #18
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AmeriGlo Suppressor Sights

I've read many places about the suggested use of the AmeriGlo supressor sights on the TSD Glock slide, but not found any specific part number, height, width, etc.

Does anyone out there have this info?

I perfer all black front and rear. No dots, no colors.
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Old 03-04-2012, 00:37   #19
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Originally Posted by lasvegastwo View Post
I've read many places about the suggested use of the AmeriGlo supressor sights on the TSD Glock slide, but not found any specific part number, height, width, etc.

Does anyone out there have this info?

I prefer all black front and rear. No dots, no colors.
Based on my vernier caliper measurements, I believe the front must be GST-315 and the rear probably GL-402. The problem is that Ameriglo is showing the GL-402 and GL-403 to be discontinued.

The former machinist for TSD, Mark Housel (post #16 above) would probably know for sure.

Last edited by bentbiker; 03-04-2012 at 00:48..
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:27   #20
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Based on my vernier caliper measurements, I believe the front must be GST-315 and the rear probably GL-402. The problem is that Ameriglo is showing the GL-402 and GL-403 to be discontinued.

The former machinist for TSD, Mark Housel (post #16 above) would probably know for sure.
GST-315 in front and GL-404 in back.
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