[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by JaPes

Congrats cyphertext!

Thanks JaPes. Really wanting to get to the range and try it out.

[Hour13]

Some great posts here. The simple fact is, MOST of us don't need to run out and buy a $2,500 uber-rifle(including most of the people who have one). And for those of us who do WANT a "nicer" AR than a Sport...

It's an AR-15.

It's a modular design. You can start with a basic rifle, like the M&P Sport, and shoot the hell out of it. Then as you learn the gun, you can make changes to suit your style of shooting. Piece by piece, you can build the ultimate rifle for YOU. And when it's all done, you'll have your ideal rifle, plus most or all of the parts you'd need to put another Sport together.



I love my Sport. Already well over 1,000rds of cheap, nasty ammo down the pipe, and not a single FTF or problem of any kind. Aside from grips and rails, still in stock form. But on it's way to my house now is a DSA upper receiver, and today I received the port door & forward assist mechanism to assemble it with.

Given how flawlessly it has performed, these are the only two immediate drawbacks I feel need to be addressed. More upgrades will follow as time goes by, but as it is, I'm very happy with it.

Do I think a SEAL operator is likely to "ooh" and "ahh" over my gun? Lol, of course not.

Am I a SEAL operator, or on a SWAT team? No. I bend wrenches for a living, and happen to love guns, and shooting. And this AR is a SHOOTER.

I practice & train with it, as I do all of my guns. If I needed to, I would trust my life to this rifle 110%. But for me, an AR is NOT my primary weapon. I'm a civilian, my primary weapon is my EDC, an H&K .40 USP.

For me, this AR is affordable, fun to tinker on, and an absolute blast to shoot.

Perfect.

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by Hour13

Some great posts here. The simple fact is, MOST of us don't need to run out and buy a $2,500 uber-rifle(including most of the people who have one). And for those of us who do WANT a "nicer" AR than a Sport...

It's an AR-15.

It's a modular design. You can start with a basic rifle, like the M&P Sport, and shoot the hell out of it. Then as you learn the gun, you can make changes to suit your style of shooting. Piece by piece, you can build the ultimate rifle for YOU. And when it's all done, you'll have your ideal rifle, plus most or all of the parts you'd need to put another Sport together.



I love my Sport. Already well over 1,000rds of cheap, nasty ammo down the pipe, and not a single FTF or problem of any kind. Aside from grips and rails, still in stock form. But on it's way to my house now is a DSA upper receiver, and today I received the port door & forward assist mechanism to assemble it with.

Given how flawlessly it has performed, these are the only two immediate drawbacks I feel need to be addressed. More upgrades will follow as time goes by, but as it is, I'm very happy with it.

Do I think a SEAL operator is likely to "ooh" and "ahh" over my gun? Lol, of course not.

Am I a SEAL operator, or on a SWAT team? No. I bend wrenches for a living, and happen to love guns, and shooting. And this AR is a SHOOTER.

I practice & train with it, as I do all of my guns. If I needed to, I would trust my life to this rifle 110%. But for me, an AR is NOT my primary weapon. I'm a civilian, my primary weapon is my EDC, an H&K .40 USP.

For me, this AR is affordable, fun to tinker on, and an absolute blast to shoot.

Perfect.

Good post

Let us know how the DSA turns out, I would like to give them a try someday. They darn fine FALs so I would think their ARs are good to go as well.

[Hour13]

Originally Posted by Ruggles

Good post

Let us know how the DSA turns out, I would like to give them a try someday. They darn fine FALs so I would think their ARs are good to go as well.

Thanks bud, and will do. One of our regulars at the shop is a smith, he's the one who recommended the DSA to me. He's built several ARs using their parts, said he was impressed with the quality.

And if for any reason I don't like it... $75 won't kill me, lol.

Stripped upper was on sale for $60, and the parts kit for it was $15. I'll post up once I get it together for a range trip.

[TangoFoxtrot]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

Thanks JaPes. Really wanting to get to the range and try it out.

You won't be sorry.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by Made Man

Apparently S&W are 5R rifling 1/8 twist and Melonite treating more than the Sport's barrels. Skip to 1:25.

Why would Kyle Lamb be collaborating with a "bottom end" maker like S&W?

I know that barrel is not the same as the one on the Sport, but interesting to see that the melonite treatment and 1:8 twist with 5R rifling is being put on what many would consider a higher end AR.

[joecoastie]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

Why would Kyle Lamb be collaborating with a "bottom end" maker like S&W?

I know that barrel is not the same as the one on the Sport, but interesting to see that the melonite treatment and 1:8 twist with 5R rifling is being put on what many would consider a higher end AR.

Actually, the Sport comes with the 1:8 5R melonite barrel.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by joecoastie

Actually, the Sport comes with the 1:8 5R melonite barrel.

It does, but it is 4140 steel. The barrel on the VTAC II is 4150 CMV. Same coating and rifling, but made from different stock. I had to go look up the specs when I saw that video, because I wanted to know if it is the same barrel or not. It looks like the Sport and the new M&P 15 Tactical may share the same barrel. They match spec wise from what I can see anyway.

[joecoastie]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

It does, but it is 4140 steel. The barrel on the VTAC II is 4150 CMV. Same coating and rifling, but made from different stock. I had to go look up the specs when I saw that video, because I wanted to know if it is the same barrel or not. It looks like the Sport and the new M&P 15 Tactical may share the same barrel. They match spec wise from what I can see anyway.

Good to know.

[Magelk]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

Why would Kyle Lamb be collaborating with a "bottom end" maker like S&W?

I know that barrel is not the same as the one on the Sport, but interesting to see that the melonite treatment and 1:8 twist with 5R rifling is being put on what many would consider a higher end AR.

Maybe he's doing it for the money?

[pleaforwar]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

Why would Kyle Lamb be collaborating with a "bottom end" maker like S&W?

I know that barrel is not the same as the one on the Sport, but interesting to see that the melonite treatment and 1:8 twist with 5R rifling is being put on what many would consider a higher end AR.

Just a FYI, but most well-known instructors have endorsed rifles. Pat Rogers has the BCM EAG rifle, Jeff Gonzales has the LWRC Tricon, Larry Vickers has done work with Daniel Defense, Mike Pannone has done work with Next Generation Arms, Jason Falla is apparently in the works with Centurion Arms, etc etc.

Also, keep in mind there is a reason that the VTAC rifle bears the company's name, and not the sport model. Now I can't speak for SGM Lamb because I have yet to train with him, but I regularly train/discuss with many people who have been through his courses, and I can't thin of a single guy who would look at the sport as anything more than a recreational rifle. There's nothing wrong with this, most shooters buy this rifle for that purpose.

This isn't a bash on S&W. I'd love to have a VTAC rifle, or a few of their other rifles (I'd still want a 1/7 or 1/8 barrel). All I am saying is that people should recognize the rifle for what it is, and this rifle is a great deal for a recreational/fun gun.

Cheers,
Dan

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by pleaforwar

Just a FYI, but most well-known instructors have endorsed rifles. Pat Rogers has the BCM EAG rifle, Jeff Gonzales has the LWRC Tricon, Larry Vickers has done work with Daniel Defense, Mike Pannone has done work with Next Generation Arms, Jason Falla is apparently in the works with Centurion Arms, etc etc.

Also, keep in mind there is a reason that the VTAC rifle bears the company's name, and not the sport model. Now I can't speak for SGM Lamb because I have yet to train with him, but I regularly train/discuss with many people who have been through his courses, and I can't thin of a single guy who would look at the sport as anything more than a recreational rifle. There's nothing wrong with this, most shooters buy this rifle for that purpose.

This isn't a bash on S&W. I'd love to have a VTAC rifle, or a few of their other rifles (I'd still want a 1/7 or 1/8 barrel). All I am saying is that people should recognize the rifle for what it is, and this rifle is a great deal for a recreational/fun gun.

Cheers,
Dan

I recognize the rifle for what it is....my comment was just a poke at Javelin when he states S&W (not just the Sport) is "bottom end". I doubt these high level instructors would lend their name to a rifle manufacturer that they considered junk.

PM inbound shortly...

[JaPes]

OMG it's the thread that won't die. :LOL:

The OP should be given an award for unintentionally starting an epic derailed thread.

[Made Man]

Never talk about religion, politics, or the Legendary S&W M&P 15 Sport. It always starts an argument.

Dang sure am glad I got one, pre-ban.

[Javelin]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

I recognize the rifle for what it is....my comment was just a poke at Javelin when he states S&W (not just the Sport) is "bottom end". I doubt these high level instructors would lend their name to a rifle manufacturer that they considered junk.

PM inbound shortly...

It is bottom end. I would imagine that Kyle was approached by Short&Wimpy and they said here is a bag of money to support our product. in this economy what do you think Kyle said?

[Javelin]

Originally Posted by Hour13

Some great posts here. The simple fact is, MOST of us don't need to run out and buy a $2,500 uber-rifle(including most of the people who have one). And for those of us who do WANT a "nicer" AR than a Sport...

Why don't you think that MOST of u don't need a $2,500 rifle? It is not like $2,500 is that much for a quality rifle. To be honest I think each of my Noveske rifles run around $4K after add-ons, tax stamps, suppressors, and optics. But that's my money so I will spend it the way I want to (because I am a $30k/year "millionaire apparently). And I have been peddling my lesser ARs (DPMS, Armalite, S&W M&P15, .... I would like to sell my RRA but it is SBR'd & I would lose money, and I am in the process of selling my DPMS SASS 308) as I listened to the "As Good As" crowd on here for too long and wasted some cash.

And just for the record my rifles are very pristine as I keep them that way. I don't abuse them and though the BCG show wear the rest of the rifles are in awesome shape. I think my Anschutz 1913 Supermatch (most of you would crap yourself if you knew how much that costs outfitted) I have shot throughout my Olympic Training Center & NCAA shooting career still looks almost the same as when it was purchased new back in 1994. I grew up playing the violin and had a very fine instrument and I learned to care for things of value. Very high quality items that are masterfully crafted.

You guys with these S&W think they are awesome and that is fine. But let's not get too deep in the BS stating that folks have no reason to purchase a finely tuned & accurate rifle. The AR class warfare on this forum wreaks.

Enjoy your Sportsters.

[Hour13]

Originally Posted by Javelin

Why don't you think that MOST of u don't need a $2,500 rifle? It is not like $2,500 is that much for a quality rifle. To be honest I think each of my Noveske rifles run around $4K after add-ons, tax stamps, suppressors, and optics. But that's my money so I will spend it the way I want to (because I am a $30k/year "millionaire apparently). And I have been peddling my lesser ARs (DPMS, Armalite, S&W M&P15, .... I would like to sell my RRA but it is SBR'd & I would lose money, and I am in the process of selling my DPMS SASS 308) as I listened to the "As Good As" crowd on here for too long and wasted some cash.

And just for the record my rifles are very pristine as I keep them that way. I don't abuse them and though the BCG show wear the rest of the rifles are in awesome shape. I think my Anschutz 1913 Supermatch (most of you would crap yourself if you knew how much that costs outfitted) I have shot throughout my Olympic Training Center & NCAA shooting career still looks almost the same as when it was purchased new back in 1994. I grew up playing the violin and had a very fine instrument and I learned to care for things of value. Very high quality items that are masterfully crafted.

You guys with these S&W think they are awesome and that is fine. But let's not get too deep in the BS stating that folks have no reason to purchase a finely tuned & accurate rifle. The AR class warfare on this forum wreaks.

Enjoy your Sportsters.

I should've been more clear my friend, wasn't trying to make a broad statement towards everybody. By "us" I was referring to those of us buying and enjoying rifles like the Sport. Myself for instance, I'm not out to impress or BS anybody.

I'm not Military.

I'm not LE.

I'm not a competition shooter.

I'm a mechanic, a civilian. For me, an AR is a secondary defense weapon. It's primary purpose in my life... is for fun. My primary defense weapon is my EDC. So as much as I'd love a top tier M4, it's not in my budget. I have rent, bills, child support, etc. All of which come before my "toys". Period.

So if I don't "need" a Noveske, and can't afford one, should I not own a rifle at all? The Sport serves it's purpose in my life perfectly. I have no plans to use it to make a 500yd headshot, I just want it to be fun, reliable & accurate out to 100yds. And it is.

And should the zombies attack, I have no doubt this AR will handle them just fine.

[USMCgs3]

It's all about the "name drop"


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[Javelin]

Originally Posted by Hour13

I should've been more clear my friend, wasn't trying to make a broad statement towards everybody. By "us" I was referring to those of us buying and enjoying rifles like the Sport. Myself for instance, I'm not out to impress or BS anybody.

I'm not Military.

I'm not LE.

I'm not a competition shooter.

I'm a mechanic, a civilian. For me, an AR is a secondary defense weapon. It's primary purpose in my life... is for fun. My primary defense weapon is my EDC. So as much as I'd love a top tier M4, it's not in my budget. I have rent, bills, child support, etc. All of which come before my "toys". Period.

So if I don't "need" a Noveske, and can't afford one, should I not own a rifle at all? The Sport serves it's purpose in my life perfectly. I have no plans to use it to make a 500yd headshot, I just want it to be fun, reliable & accurate out to 100yds. And it is.

And should the zombies attack, I have no doubt this AR will handle them just fine.

Well I guess you have a point. Your S&W should be fairly accurate. Probably more so than most other non-AR semi-auto platforms. I don't know much about Zombies but maybe an expert on them will chime in...

[Hour13]

Originally Posted by Javelin

Well I guess you have a point. Your S&W should be fairly accurate. Probably more so than most other non-AR semi-auto platforms. I don't know much about Zombies but maybe an expert on them will chime in...

Ya, she does pretty good. Haven't put a scope on her yet, but I can put a mag full of crappy PMC .223 in a 3" group at 50-60yds just on the irons(when I take my time). Not setting any records, lol, but I can live with it.

Wasn't trying to rag on anybody buying top-notch ARs, believe me, if I could, I would too! I certainly appreciate quality gear, hence my EDC is an H&K and not a Sigma. I love the Sport for a fun, mag-dump, paper killing bit of gunpowder therapy... but I am slowly building another rifle for more "serious" shooting.



Not top-tier, but should be a pretty decent rig when it's done.

...

Still gonna keep the Sport though!

[Detectorist]

Originally Posted by Hour13

I should've been more clear my friend, wasn't trying to make a broad statement towards everybody. By "us" I was referring to those of us buying and enjoying rifles like the Sport. Myself for instance, I'm not out to impress or BS anybody.

I'm not Military.

I'm not LE.

I'm not a competition shooter.

I'm a mechanic, a civilian. For me, an AR is a secondary defense weapon. It's primary purpose in my life... is for fun. My primary defense weapon is my EDC. So as much as I'd love a top tier M4, it's not in my budget. I have rent, bills, child support, etc. All of which come before my "toys". Period.

So if I don't "need" a Noveske, and can't afford one, should I not own a rifle at all? The Sport serves it's purpose in my life perfectly. I have no plans to use it to make a 500yd headshot, I just want it to be fun, reliable & accurate out to 100yds. And it is.

And should the zombies attack, I have no doubt this AR will handle them just fine.

You don't owe anyone an explanation. Some folks just can't stand someone else saving some money and getting something that suits them.

When I purchased my DPMS a few years back, I got the same comments, only worse. I challenged the main culprit to go out to the range with me and stand 50 meters from me while I shot at him with my bottom end DPMS. I would change places with him when I got a jam or ran out of ammo. Never had any takers.

The point is your AR works. It shoots and it's reliable. What's not to like?

[MD357]

Originally Posted by USMCgs3

It's all about the "name drop"

or how stating how much you spent. Internet status is where it's at.

[MD357]

Originally Posted by Detectorist

When I purchased my DPMS a few years back, I got the same comments, only worse. I challenged the main culprit to go out to the range with me and stand 50 meters from me while I shot at him with my bottom end DPMS. I would change places with him when I got a jam or ran out of ammo. Never had any takers.

I'd imagine they didn't want to get theirs dirty. Gotta look pristine for the pics ya know.

[series1811]

Originally Posted by Magelk

Maybe he's doing it for the money?

Maybe because Kyle knows that most people would be better off with a $600 rifle and a thousand dollars worth of training than a $1600 rifle and no training.

[TangoFoxtrot]

Originally Posted by Javelin

Why don't you think that MOST of u don't need a $2,500 rifle? It is not like $2,500 is that much for a quality rifle. To be honest I think each of my Noveske rifles run around $4K after add-ons, tax stamps, suppressors, and optics. But that's my money so I will spend it the way I want to (because I am a $30k/year "millionaire apparently). And I have been peddling my lesser ARs (DPMS, Armalite, S&W M&P15, .... I would like to sell my RRA but it is SBR'd & I would lose money, and I am in the process of selling my DPMS SASS 308) as I listened to the "As Good As" crowd on here for too long and wasted some cash.

And just for the record my rifles are very pristine as I keep them that way. I don't abuse them and though the BCG show wear the rest of the rifles are in awesome shape. I think my Anschutz 1913 Supermatch (most of you would crap yourself if you knew how much that costs outfitted) I have shot throughout my Olympic Training Center & NCAA shooting career still looks almost the same as when it was purchased new back in 1994. I grew up playing the violin and had a very fine instrument and I learned to care for things of value. Very high quality items that are masterfully crafted.

You guys with these S&W think they are awesome and that is fine. But let's not get too deep in the BS stating that folks have no reason to purchase a finely tuned & accurate rifle. The AR class warfare on this forum wreaks.

Enjoy your Sportsters.

Bottom line is I can pick up my Sport, my Colt or your $4K rifle and kill anything that I choose. Some on this site forget that if you are a lousy marksman having a $4k rifle is not going to matter. So the price point is moot. Use and train with what you can afford and thats that.