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Old 12-20-2011, 00:30   #1
arushus
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Which ammo would you carry?

Over the past couple months Ive accumulated several different hollowpoint loads, and was just curious as to what everyone would carry if given the same choice...

175gr Winchester Silvertips from factory
180gr Hornady XTP's from factory
165gr JHP's from Underwood
180gr Remington Golden Sabers from Underwood
200gr Hornady XTP's from Underwood

Right now Im carrying the golden sabers, since I feel they are the best choice out of my options...If I had some handloaded speer gold dots or noslers I wouldnt even ask...
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Old 12-20-2011, 00:42   #2
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For self defense, I prefer the 135gr. @ 1600 fps. from Underwood, but; I'm sure the 165 JHP's would work great also. For SD, the 180's seem to have too much penetration. Of course, the is just an opinion.
For hunting or in the woods, I think the 200gr. XTP's would be best from Underwood.

Bottom line is that it is hard to beat what Underwood is putting out right now for price and performance. Use the Hornady and the Winchester for target practice on watermelons.
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Old 12-20-2011, 00:49   #3
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If underwood would have had the 165gr goldensabers instead of the 180's in stock when I ordered I would have gotten them...
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:13   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inspectorjj View Post
For self defense, I prefer the 135gr. @ 1600 fps. from Underwood...
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:24   #5
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I would use the Silvertips. Second choice would be the 180gr XTPs, then the Underwood XTPs. What bullet does the 165gr Underwood load use? I think it's that generic Zero bullet. I've seen them shatter at well under 1400fps. Personally, I think the Silvertip is the best SD bullet design.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:32   #6
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Underwood's 165 JHPs for me!
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:49   #7
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I thought he used winchester hollowpoints...
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:57   #8
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I like XTP's...always have. Still have to try Underwoods....
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:20   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
I would use the Silvertips. Second choice would be the 180gr XTPs, then the Underwood XTPs. What bullet does the 165gr Underwood load use? I think it's that generic Zero bullet. I've seen them shatter at well under 1400fps. Personally, I think the Silvertip is the best SD bullet design.
Kevin says they're Winchester but that doesn't mean Zero doesn't supply Winchester or vice versa. And if they shatter going through the bad guy I guess I'd say...even better!

I recently tested some Silvertips and was disappointed in the speed I got. If they were a hundred fps faster I'd be impressed. As it is, not so much.

Maybe Kevin of Underwood Ammo could get some Silvertips, load them up to about 1300 fps. Then they'd be awesome. Since I'm wishing here, maybe in nickel Starline cases...the perfect werewolf load.
The 10 Ring
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:18   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arushus View Post
I thought he used winchester hollowpoints...
Not sure about the 165s, but about the 180s Kevin said;
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjunderwood View Post
Just changed the 180gr JHPs to Montana Gold.
That was about 10 days ago.
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Old 12-20-2011, 13:33   #11
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Why no love for the Golden Sabers? I rather like their design, but I dont believe Ive ever seen a .40 or 10mm version fully expanded.
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Old 12-20-2011, 13:54   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arushus View Post
Why no love for the Golden Sabers? I rather like their design, but I dont believe Ive ever seen a .40 or 10mm version fully expanded.
For deer/human sized targets and smaller I like the Golden Sabers a tad better than XTPs. The Golden Sabers expanded just a little more in my backyard testing than XTPs.

Also, I like both the Golden Sabers and XTPs better than 175gr Silvertips because in my backyard testing the 175gr Sivertips didn't always expand, where in the same media the Golden Sabers and XTPs always did.

All in all though my favorite 10mm load for SD that doesn't exist anymore are 155gr Gold Dots @ +1400fps. And since I can't have them now, I go with 135gr Nosler loads.

Can't wait to get into reloading so I can load up what I want to shoot at the velocity I want to shoot it at.

Here's a pic of a 180gr Golden Saber fired from the G20C I used to have that was a Double Tap 10mm load that doesn't exist anymore (don't remember anymore what I fired it into) -

The 10 Ring

So much for needing a 45 Auto to poke a large diameter hole.
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Old 12-20-2011, 14:13   #13
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I fired a 175gr silvertip into some 2-liter bottles of water, it expanded to ~.765", it looks like your golden saber expanded a lil farther than that...Id really like to start loading my own soon also. Im gonna load my own 155gr gold dots..
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Old 12-20-2011, 14:27   #14
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Originally Posted by arushus View Post
I fired a 175gr silvertip into some 2-liter bottles of water, it expanded to ~.765", it looks like your golden saber expanded a lil farther than that...Id really like to start loading my own soon also. Im gonna load my own 155gr gold dots..
Where do you get your gold dots?
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Old 12-20-2011, 14:29   #15
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well the Hornady and Winchester ammo is not much more than .40cal so whats the point with those? the Underwood ammo is loaded and performs in real life to true 10mm specs.
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Old 12-20-2011, 14:42   #16
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Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
well the Hornady and Winchester ammo is not much more than .40cal so whats the point with those? the Underwood ammo is loaded and performs in real life to true 10mm specs.
I just bought them a while back just to try out, thats all...
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Old 12-20-2011, 14:43   #17
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Where do you get your gold dots?
I dont, I dont reload yet...but probably midway usa, they have them for $25.49 for 100 bullets
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Last edited by arushus; 12-20-2011 at 14:49..
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Old 12-20-2011, 14:57   #18
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I usually carry factory Golden Sabers in 9mm and 45ACP, but I read where 21Carrier handloaded them and they don't seem to like high velocities. I'm assuming the bullet isn't meant for true 10mm velocities.

The SilverTips seem to be the best bullets out of the list.

Last edited by attrapereves; 12-20-2011 at 14:57..
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Old 12-20-2011, 15:00   #19
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I dont, I dont reload yet...but probably midway usa, they have them for $25.49 for 100 bullets

OK, thanks. I will take a look. I was under the impression that Speer Gold Dot bullets were no longer available. I must have been confused about something else.
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Old 12-20-2011, 15:12   #20
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Originally Posted by G29SF View Post
OK, thanks. I will take a look. I was under the impression that Speer Gold Dot bullets were no longer available. I must have been confused about something else.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/253...int-box-of-100

There ya go...
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Old 12-20-2011, 15:18   #21
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OK, thanks. I will take a look. I was under the impression that Speer Gold Dot bullets were no longer available. I must have been confused about something else.
They are available in 155, 165, 180 weights. They have been pretty scarce the last few years.
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Old 12-20-2011, 17:47   #22
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I would carry any of them. It's all good ammo!

I prefer XTP's. They do seem to expand well. But never the largest expansion! The thing I like about them best is bearing surface area. Thus I THINK this lends to there accuracy. That sharp defined transition edge really gets the job done IMHO as the bullet enters the barrel/lands and grooves. BUT can give some folks slight feeding issues. I also find that they don't seem to be as load sensitive when it comes to accuracy. And I've driven them harder and faster than most with no construction issues. As a reloader they are fantastic for me. And yes I do carry my reloads and I do shoot them a lot when I'm shooting. Shooting a lot has been a issue of late. :(
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Old 12-21-2011, 00:56   #23
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All I know is that the pictures of the 165gr JHPs on Underwood's website look IDENTICAL to Zero bullets. They blow apart in water at about 1100fps. I'm talking about just finding tiny little pieces, NO CORE LEFT. Even the jacket comes apart. They might not even penetrate to the vitals in a side shot. I'm not joking about that. I don't care if they are made by Winchester or Zero, but that bullet design in the website pictures is not meant for 10mm SD.

About the Golden Sabers, here's what a 165gr Golden Saber does at about 1400fps:

The 10 Ring

The 10 Ring

165gr Golden Saber wound tract in wax:
The 10 Ring

Notice the very thin, icepick-like wound tract after the initial stretch cavity. There was nothing but a ~.400" core of about 60gr left to penetrate to the "vitals". This is not ideal at all.

I just realized that I've never tested a 180gr Golden Saber, just the 165gr. But I would be surprised to see them do much better given how fragile the 165gr GSHP was. However, the slug that Glock20C posted above looks promising. I would like to know at what speed that bullet was fired, and into what type of medium. If it was in the 1200-1300fps range and into water, the 180gr Golden Saber appears much more rugged, and should perform similarly to the Silvertip below.

On the other hand, here's what a factory Silvertip does (factory left, hot reloaded right):

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/cauYtMODLmJC55Uu353STdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t2LS-AHIKgY/TcYdGkPtOhI/AAAAAAAAANY/M3AghHzBCOs/s800/IMG_1001.jpg" height="598" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/114900770472916837948/HotReloadedSilvertipWaxTest?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Hot Reloaded Silvertip/Wax test</a></td></tr></table>


<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NpgijZVKK3Gcs2jgGhvG99MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t9CWey7em64/TcYdLOPjMGI/AAAAAAAAANc/55rQ9MNj15k/s800/IMG_1002.jpg" height="598" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/114900770472916837948/HotReloadedSilvertipWaxTest?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Hot Reloaded Silvertip/Wax test</a></td></tr></table>


<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/O2oLbN0X7JI3jNzuDee7fNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1L7TllLFeIg/TcYcxcOPWyI/AAAAAAAAANg/QLhbKHAhDZg/s800/IMG_0987.jpg" height="598" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/114900770472916837948/HotReloadedSilvertipWaxTest?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Hot Reloaded Silvertip/Wax test</a></td></tr></table>

In contrast to the Golden Saber above, notice that the Silvertip retained much more mass, and much more diameter. That shows in the wound channel. The Silvertip's wound channel is much wider all the way to the vitals. Penetration, however, stays about the same. This is a pretty ideal wound channel.

By the way, both of these Silvertips were fired from a G29. Given that, factory 175gr Silvertip performance from a G20 should be closer to that of the one on the right (the hotter, reloaded bullet).

Last edited by 21Carrier; 12-21-2011 at 01:14..
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:06   #24
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Now, here's what a 135gr Nosler JHP at about 1550fps will do:

The 10 Ring

The 10 Ring

The 10 Ring


Remember, by comparing my penetration results to those of factory loads in gelatin from the same gun, I would estimate that penetration in gelatin or tissue should be about 1.5-1.8 times deeper. So, 8" in the wax should be 12-14" in gelatin/tissue. This seems to be supported by the fact that Kegs recently used one of these 135gr Nosler JHPs to successfully take a deer. His achieved full penetration, which should have been in the 12-15" realm.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 12-21-2011 at 01:07..
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:54   #25
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Excellent photos and information 21Carrier. You reaffirmed my case for the 135gr. Noslers.
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