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Old 12-09-2011, 11:23   #26
TheFireArmorer
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I ended up reading the laws on this subject on in.gov website and it said that as long as the person is licensed to possess a firearm they are allowed be on school grounds to drop off or pick someone up as long as the gun stays in their vehicle. So i guess that would mean legally this does not permit a gun with 1000 feet of school property for any other reason. I guess the only way to know for sure is to ask a few different police officers. Thanks for the quick replies!
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Old 12-09-2011, 15:17   #27
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Originally Posted by TheFireArmorer View Post
I ended up reading the laws on this subject on in.gov website and it said that as long as the person is licensed to possess a firearm they are allowed be on school grounds to drop off or pick someone up as long as the gun stays in their vehicle. So i guess that would mean legally this does not permit a gun with 1000 feet of school property for any other reason. I guess the only way to know for sure is to ask a few different police officers. Thanks for the quick replies!
DO NOT TAKE LEGAL ADVICE FROM POLICE!!!!!!! As far as being able to carry on school grounds that is going to depend on state law. You can be within 1,000 feet of school legally, per federal law, as long as you have a license to carry from the state which the school is located. A friend I know who lives in Indiana says she sees dads all the time standing outside the school open carrying. From the sound of it they are in the parking lot. I'd suggest check out opencarry.org and going to the Indiana forum. People there tend to know what they're talking about. And if they talk about any laws ask for a cite. That's your best best. DO NOT TAKE LEGAL ADVICE FROM POLICE!!!!!!!
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:13   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
DO NOT TAKE LEGAL ADVICE FROM POLICE!!!!!!! As far as being able to carry on school grounds that is going to depend on state law. You can be within 1,000 feet of school legally, per federal law, as long as you have a license to carry from the state which the school is located. A friend I know who lives in Indiana says she sees dads all the time standing outside the school open carrying. From the sound of it they are in the parking lot. I'd suggest check out opencarry.org and going to the Indiana forum. People there tend to know what they're talking about. And if they talk about any laws ask for a cite. That's your best best. DO NOT TAKE LEGAL ADVICE FROM POLICE!!!!!!!
I wouldn't take legal advice from a police officer I was having an encounter with but I think asking police is a great idea at other times, who do you think actually enforces those laws? Now I'm not going to take it as Holy Gospel but if I get the same answer from multiple LEOs then I'm going to put a little more credence in it. I've spoken with LEOs from three states as well as a couple lawyers and have been told the same thing by all of them. Unless you are either stopped by a Federal LE agency or else do something stupid to get charged by the US Attorney it's a non issue.
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Old 12-10-2011, 11:30   #29
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I wouldn't take legal advice from a police officer I was having an encounter with but I think asking police is a great idea at other times, who do you think actually enforces those laws? Now I'm not going to take it as Holy Gospel but if I get the same answer from multiple LEOs then I'm going to put a little more credence in it. I've spoken with LEOs from three states as well as a couple lawyers and have been told the same thing by all of them. Unless you are either stopped by a Federal LE agency or else do something stupid to get charged by the US Attorney it's a non issue.
Firearms attorney is fine but not police. Just because they enforce the laws doesn't mean they know them. Go back 5-7 years in Michigan and there are a lot of cops who'd tell you OC is illegal in Michigan. Even though it's never been. I strongly recommend not taking legal advice from police and if you do look the laws up online to make sure they are correct. Just because a cop tells you something is legal doesn't mean you can do it. Suppose another cop catches you doing what that cop said was legal and you say "Well this other cop told me" won't hold up. Especially in court.
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:07   #30
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Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
Firearms attorney is fine but not police. Just because they enforce the laws doesn't mean they know them. Go back 5-7 years in Michigan and there are a lot of cops who'd tell you OC is illegal in Michigan. Even though it's never been. I strongly recommend not taking legal advice from police and if you do look the laws up online to make sure they are correct. Just because a cop tells you something is legal doesn't mean you can do it. Suppose another cop catches you doing what that cop said was legal and you say "Well this other cop told me" won't hold up. Especially in court.
If you have admissible evidence of what the other officer told you or the other officer will testify to the fact you may have a good defense.

Of course, not putting yourself into a position where you need to defend your actions is much preferred.
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Old 12-10-2011, 13:16   #31
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If you have admissible evidence of what the other officer told you or the other officer will testify to the fact you may have a good defense.

Of course, not putting yourself into a position where you need to defend your actions is much preferred.
Negligence of the law is no excuse. Prosecution will say you are responsible for knowing the law and you'd have to be able to find that officer and get him on the stand. And you'd better have the time and money to defend yourself in court.
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Old 12-10-2011, 16:12   #32
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i think unless your in the school or on the school grounds i wouldnt worry about it....even walking on the sidewalk past a school...who's gonna know, who's gonna care

i think you may be thinking too much

when ive called the local cops about firearms issues they never have a clue...i called 2 weeks ago to ask about how close i shoot away from houses....i was transfered 3x....and finally they admitted they didnt know for sure, but the consensus between everyone there was around 200 yards....

i wondered why i even called...
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Old 12-10-2011, 16:15   #33
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Negligence of the law is no excuse.
Being wrongfully informed by a sworn government employee who you reasonably believe knows the law is a potential excuse.

There is nothing "negligent" about listening to a law enforcement officer telling you something is legal.

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Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
Prosecution will say you are responsible for knowing the law and you'd have to be able to find that officer and get him on the stand. And you'd better have the time and money to defend yourself in court.
The above portion of your post leads me to believe that you did not read my entire post. Here it is again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
If you have admissible evidence of what the other officer told you or the other officer will testify to the fact you may have a good defense.

Of course, not putting yourself into a position where you need to defend your actions is much preferred.
Note that I specifically stated "if" you have admissible evidence of what the officer told you or the officer will testify, that you may have a good defense.

Also note that I specifically stated not being in that position, where your action needs to be defended, is much preferred.


Personal example: When I was living in Indiana I was unsure if the word school, in the law, referred to colleges or just k-12. I emailed the state police and an Lt. responded, stating that it did not appear to apply to colleges. I saved that email. That would, if it came down to it, at least give me a leg to stand on.

I later asked a lawyer I met (was a college instructor of mine) who verified that.


Edit: Here is the email I received back:

Indiana code is available online on Access Indiana at
www.state.in.us/legislative/ic/code. Indiana code 35-41-1-24.7 defines
school property. This definition appears to exclude colleges and
universities. Therefore, the criminal statute for possession of a firearm
on school property does not seem to include colleges and universities.
However, pursuant to policy or handbook, colleges and universities may
prohibit possession of firearms. You may contact the particular college or
university of interest regarding a policy.

You may contact private legal counsel for further information.

______, Lieutenant
Indiana State Police




^^^I think that's a pretty good basis for a defense. Do you?
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Old 12-10-2011, 16:47   #34
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Hey if your willing to take legal advice from them go for it. You MIGHT be LUCKY enough to get off on charges should you receive wrong legal advice but I never would nor would I ever recommend anyone else.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:52   #35
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If I'm getting the same answer across jurisdictions, states and levels of LE then I am going to accept it. I will take the opinions of those that are out on the street enforcing the law over a single ten year old letter from the ATF that I had never seen until this week.
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:05   #36
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Why can't they just legalize carry in schools by permitted, peaceable adults and save lots of money on unnecessary, contradictory legislation?
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:59   #37
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Why can't they just legalize carry in schools by permitted, peaceable adults and save lots of money on unnecessary, contradictory legislation?
Because it's too logical and reasonable.
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:46   #38
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If I'm getting the same answer across jurisdictions, states and levels of LE then I am going to accept it. I will take the opinions of those that are out on the street enforcing the law over a single ten year old letter from the ATF that I had never seen until this week.
Chances are if a lot of them are telling you something it's true. But there's no doubt that to be within 1,000 feet of a school you need a permit from the state which you are in. It's very unlikely you will get in any trouble if you are especially in a state like Arizona or Indiana but it is possible.
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:00   #39
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In Kentucky, I can legally drop off little Johnny at school while CCW as long as I remain INSIDE my vehicle and do not brandish said weapon.
Same here in WA State. . Been that way for years and remarkably, no one has gone wacko, jumped outta their car and started shooting people.

Maybe people with CCW permits actually are for the most part, law abiding individuals!
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:03   #40
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Because it's too logical and reasonable.
Logical and Reasonable haven't been a part of the legislative process for many years now. . .
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:20   #41
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I,ve been confused about our School zone gun laws here in West Virginia since i had my carry permit.I've read and reread the law but don't get it.

Every time i have to pick up my 13 year old i unload my gun and lock it away even if i'm sitting outside waiting on him.
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:54   #42
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Originally Posted by dabigguns357 View Post
I,ve been confused about our School zone gun laws here in West Virginia since i had my carry permit.I've read and reread the law but don't get it.

Every time i have to pick up my 13 year old i unload my gun and lock it away even if i'm sitting outside waiting on him.
What you are doing is correct.

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/WVCODE/...?chap=61&art=7
Quote:
(b) (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to possess any firearm or any other deadly weapon on any school bus as defined in section one, article one, chapter seventeen-a of this code, or in or on any public or private primary or secondary education building, structure, facility or grounds thereof, including any vocational education building, structure, facility or grounds thereof where secondary vocational education programs are conducted or at any school-sponsored function.

(2) This subsection shall not apply to:

(A) A law-enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity;

(B) A person specifically authorized by the board of education of the county or principal of the school where the property is located to conduct programs with valid educational purposes;

(C) A person who, as otherwise permitted by the provisions of this article, possesses an unloaded firearm or deadly weapon in a motor vehicle, or leaves an unloaded firearm or deadly weapon in a locked motor vehicle;

(D) Programs or raffles conducted with the approval of the county board of education or school which include the display of unloaded firearms; or

(E) The official mascot of West Virginia University, commonly known as "The Mountaineer", acting in his or her official capacity.

(3) Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a felony, and, upon conviction thereof, shall be imprisoned in the penitentiary of this state for a definite term of years of not less than two years nor more than ten years, or fined not more than five thousand dollars, or both.
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:47   #43
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I knew i i was right,thanks.I hate it too.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:02   #44
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So, off-duty LEOs can't carry on school property?
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:26   #45
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Quote:
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So, off-duty LEOs can't carry on school property?
You might want to actually read the statute rather than make assumptions. The previous poster was not asking about that so I did not copy that part. Read the whole thing:

Quote:
61-7-6. Exceptions as to prohibitions against carrying concealed deadly weapons.
The licensure provisions set forth in this article do not apply to:
(...)
(3) Any law-enforcement officer or law-enforcement official as defined in section one, article twenty-nine, chapter thirty of this code;
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:16   #46
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So, off-duty LEOs can't carry on school property?
If state law prohibited LEOs from carrying on school property the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act (LEOSA) would allow them to be on school property provided they're licensed by the state which the school is located.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:04   #47
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It is true that most city-dwellers cannot drive to the grocery store without driving by a school. Here in Hartford, VT it is impossible to drive in the town without passing by a school. Now every state has laws against murder and manslaughter. Is this not enough to keep mass murderers away from schools?

I am about to go to a high school basketball game. I'll have my very-concealed G17 with me. It won't come out in any way unless someone starts shooting at innocent persons. This may be illegal, but not improper in my eyes.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:53   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFireArmorer View Post
I live in Nashville, Indiana which is a fairly popular tourist town. It is a small place with many unique touristy shops. In this town there are 3 schools and the school property is within a 1000 feet of the main streets. The gas station I normally go to is directly outside of the school property.

I have my carry permit and carry everyday. What I've been wondering is whether or not it is permissible to be in possession of a firearm that close to school property. I need to go to Town Hall and ask an officer, but in the meantime I wanted to ask what you guys think.

The way the town is set up it's almost impossible not be close to school property while traveling through.
I love Nashville.. I take my Dog to Bean Blossom all the time.

as xmanhockey said, you should be fine, since you have a carry permit. I live right across the street from a school.

SCMaster... not saying I disagree, but you might want to re-read GT Rules about discussing illegal activity..

IGF
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Old 12-13-2011, 17:11   #49
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I love Nashville.. I take my Dog to Bean Blossom all the time.

as xmanhockey said, you should be fine, since you have a carry permit. I live right across the street from a school.

SCMaster... not saying I disagree, but you might want to re-read GT Rules about discussing illegal activity..

IGF
^ What this dude said.
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Old 12-14-2011, 13:08   #50
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Can only speak for Texas, but, driving through a schoolzone is no problem, i.e., going from point "A" to "B", without stopping. It is the being on the school property that is prohibited. YMMV.
Armed while IN aschool building or facility is illegal in Texas. Waiting armed in the parking lot is just fine.
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