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Old 12-08-2011, 18:04   #1
TheFireArmorer
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Carrying close to school zone?

I live in Nashville, Indiana which is a fairly popular tourist town. It is a small place with many unique touristy shops. In this town there are 3 schools and the school property is within a 1000 feet of the main streets. The gas station I normally go to is directly outside of the school property.

I have my carry permit and carry everyday. What I've been wondering is whether or not it is permissible to be in possession of a firearm that close to school property. I need to go to Town Hall and ask an officer, but in the meantime I wanted to ask what you guys think.

The way the town is set up it's almost impossible not be close to school property while traveling through.

Last edited by TheFireArmorer; 12-08-2011 at 18:05.. Reason: grammar
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Old 12-08-2011, 18:12   #2
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Originally Posted by TheFireArmorer View Post
I live in Nashville, Indiana which is a fairly popular tourist town. It is a small place with many unique touristy shops. In this town there are 3 schools and the school property is within a 1000 feet of the main streets. The gas station I normally go to is directly outside of the school property.

I have my carry permit and carry everyday. What I've been wondering is whether or not it is permissible to be in possession of a firearm that close to school property. I need to go to Town Hall and ask an officer, but in the meantime I wanted to ask what you guys think.

The way the town is set up it's almost impossible not be close to school property while traveling through.
Can only speak for Texas, but, driving through a schoolzone is no problem, i.e., going from point "A" to "B", without stopping. It is the being on the school property that is prohibited. YMMV.
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Old 12-08-2011, 18:17   #3
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Honestly, I think it will come down to the officer...

I know here in AZ, TECHNICALLY you cannot be within 1,000 feet which includes driving by - schools are everywhere so it is almost impossible to drive through the valley and not be in violation every few miles...

This is a major argument for getting your CCW in AZ as it allows, you just cannot carry on school property.
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Old 12-08-2011, 18:18   #4
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Originally Posted by TheFireArmorer View Post
I live in Nashville, Indiana which is a fairly popular tourist town. It is a small place with many unique touristy shops. In this town there are 3 schools and the school property is within a 1000 feet of the main streets. The gas station I normally go to is directly outside of the school property.

I have my carry permit and carry everyday. What I've been wondering is whether or not it is permissible to be in possession of a firearm that close to school property. I need to go to Town Hall and ask an officer, but in the meantime I wanted to ask what you guys think.

The way the town is set up it's almost impossible not be close to school property while traveling through.
No. The only law that would even come into play is the Gun Free School Zone Act (GFSZA) of 1995. But since you have a carry permit issued by the state of Indiana and you had to go a background check to get the permit you are exempt from the GFSZA. Now if you drive north to any other state every time you come within 1,000 feet of a school you are violating federal law unless you have a licensed issued by the state your in.
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(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
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Old 12-08-2011, 18:21   #5
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Originally Posted by TexanRon View Post
Can only speak for Texas, but, driving through a schoolzone is no problem, i.e., going from point "A" to "B", without stopping. It is the being on the school property that is prohibited. YMMV.
What Ron said, and please check your OWN state's law.

In Kentucky, I can legally drop off little Johnny at school while CCW as long as I remain INSIDE my vehicle and do not brandish said weapon.

However, one step OUTSIDE of my vehicle (while ON school property) and armed, I have broken the law.
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Old 12-08-2011, 18:48   #6
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xman, will you post where it specifies that out of state permits are not included in the exception to the GFSZA? My understanding as well as more than a few lawyers is that if you can legally carry in the locality you are in that you are not under the jurisdiction of the GFSZA.

OP, you are fine as long as you have a valid Indiana License. I would still check the Indiana Code because it may list that the property is fine as well, just not in the building.
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Old 12-08-2011, 19:05   #7
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xman, will you post where it specifies that out of state permits are not included in the exception to the GFSZA? My understanding as well as more than a few lawyers is that if you can legally carry in the locality you are in that you are not under the jurisdiction of the GFSZA.

OP, you are fine as long as you have a valid Indiana License. I would still check the Indiana Code because it may list that the property is fine as well, just not in the building.
This is from the BATFE when someone inquired about whether if a state honors a permit you have if that exempts you from the GFSZA. This is the reply he got.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf
Quote:
This is in responae to your letter regarding the Gun-Free School Zones Act. You are a Virginia resident, and you have a Virginia concealed weapons permit. You also have nonresident concealed weapons permits issued by several other States. Your letter asked about an exception to the general ban on possession of firearms in school zones. Specifically, you inquire, "if the State honors another state permit by legal agreement, is that considered the same as issuing it themselves for the purposes of the GFSZA?"

As you know, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms enforces the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968, including the Gun-Free School Zones Act, 18 V.S.C. § 922(q). The Gun-Free School Zones Act provides that it is unlawful for any individual to knowingly possess or discharge a firearm in a place that the individual knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a school zone, if the firearm has moved in or otherwise affects interstate or
foreign commerce. A school zone is defined to include any place in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial, or private elementary or secondary school, or within 1,000 feet of the school grounds.
The law provides certain exceptions to the general ban on possession of firearms in school zones. One exception is where the individual possessing the firearm "is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State. . ." See
18 D.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(B)(ii). A license qualifies as an exception only if the law of the State or political subdivision requires law enforcement authorities to verify
that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license.
The law clearly provides that in order to qualify as an exception to the general prohibitions of the Gun-Free School Zones Act, the license must be issued by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of that State. A concealed weapons license or permit from any otper State would not satisfy the criteria set forth in the law.
For purposes of the GFSZA, in order to fall within this limited exception, the permit must be issued by the State itself. Accordingly, your possession of a Virginia concealed weapons permit would not exempt you from the prohibitions of the Gun-Free School Zones Act in States that honor other State permits by legal agreement.
please let me know if you have any.further questions. Sincerely yours,
~~
Gary L. Thomas Chief, Firearms Programs Division
If you read the exemption to the law it is fairly clear that you must a permit issued by the state which the school zone is in. So a non-resident Utah permit would only cover you in Utah.
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(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
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Old 12-08-2011, 19:07   #8
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I saw your post about it and replied in the other thread.
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Old 12-08-2011, 19:11   #9
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I saw your post about it and replied in the other thread.
I saw your post in the other thread and I replied . Wanna just talk about it here to simplify it? haha
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Old 12-08-2011, 19:18   #10
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I have to trust the cop, he's family. I've also got a few feelers out to some others who would have an idea what the reality of it is. My guess is it's one of those things that they throw at you when they're piling on federal charges. I'd also be curious since it's never been decided at the appellate level or above how that would fair.
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Old 12-08-2011, 19:25   #11
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CA permit holders are exempt from any Gun Free School Zones. We can even carry on school grounds K-12 and colleges/universities.
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Old 12-08-2011, 19:31   #12
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CA permit holders are exempt from any Gun Free School Zones. We can even carry on school grounds K-12 and colleges/universities.
Yeah I hear if you're able to get a CA permit some of the laws really aren't that bad.
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Old 12-08-2011, 19:41   #13
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I should also point that, according to the law, you must knowingly be within 1,000 feet of a school. So that does give you some wiggle room.
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(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
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Old 12-08-2011, 20:55   #14
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Yeah I hear if you're able to get a CA permit some of the laws really aren't that bad.
That is the cruel catch of may issue. Since they can (and often do) say NO to a lot of people for no reason at all (simply because said applicant is not politically connected, rich or famous) the off limits locations list is pretty short. They wouldn't want to put all of those silly burdons on the elite few who can get a license
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Old 12-08-2011, 23:57   #15
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In TX you can carry in a school zone, near a school zone and what have you. there is no restriction of a school "zone". You can even park in a school parking lot, and leave the gun in the car and go into the school. the only place prohibited, is on the "premises" of the school... buildings etc. This was done to allow for parents who carry, to be able to drop kids off and pick them up, or attend school events without having to park down the street to do so.

That "within the 1000 feet" thing is a bit ridiculous. I know of many residences and other places that are well within 1000 ft of schools etc, and with the sheer number of schools in some areas (K-12) you'd be in a constant state of breaking the law.
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Old 12-09-2011, 06:59   #16
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In TX you can carry in a school zone, near a school zone and what have you. there is no restriction of a school "zone". You can even park in a school parking lot, and leave the gun in the car and go into the school. the only place prohibited, is on the "premises" of the school... buildings etc. This was done to allow for parents who carry, to be able to drop kids off and pick them up, or attend school events without having to park down the street to do so.

That "within the 1000 feet" thing is a bit ridiculous. I know of many residences and other places that are well within 1000 ft of schools etc, and with the sheer number of schools in some areas (K-12) you'd be in a constant state of breaking the law.
It is ridiculous just like all other gun control laws. There are other exemptions than the one I have shown. One is for private property.
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(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
Here are the other exemptions (not including the one for CCW holders):
Quote:
(iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
Notice how under vi the officer must be acting in an official capacity. A police officer who does not have a CCW from the state which the school zone is located and who is within 1,000 not there on official capacity is in violation. A cop dropper their kid off at school is not acting in an official capacity even if they're just dropping the kid off before they go to work.
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:06   #17
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Can an off duty cop ccw or open carry in or on school property?
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:47   #18
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Can an off duty cop ccw or open carry in or on school property?
This is one of the exceptions:

(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity;

You can bet that off duty is acting within official capacity. Doubly if the department has a mandate thou shalt carry both on and off duty.
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:43   #19
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Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
No. The only law that would even come into play is the Gun Free School Zone Act (GFSZA) of 1995. But since you have a carry permit issued by the state of Indiana and you had to go a background check to get the permit you are exempt from the GFSZA. Now if you drive north to any other state every time you come within 1,000 feet of a school you are violating federal law unless you have a licensed issued by the state your in.
Ditto that
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:51   #20
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That is the cruel catch of may issue. Since they can (and often do) say NO to a lot of people for no reason at all (simply because said applicant is not politically connected, rich or famous) the off limits locations list is pretty short. They wouldn't want to put all of those silly burdons on the elite few who can get a license

They are starting to say yes to more people. Last year they approved over double the permits than the previous year. What really bothers me is that the people they are stoping from carrying are the law abiding citizens. the bad guys are still going to carry anyway.
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