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Old 01-05-2012, 17:14   #1
Eurodriver
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565 yard 12.5" SBR Shooting *Update 1/06*

See Post #8 for an Update to the thread below:



The setup: BCM 12.5" SS upper with free floating barrel and DD OmegaX 7" rail. I used a grippod for front support (No, I don't keep it on there) and a sandbag for a rear rest. I actually shot from the prone, but this is the only pic I have of the setup.

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What I was shooting at: Paper targets at 300 and 565, and (2) 8" steel gongs at 565 (Not labeled)

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Now, normally I do all of my shooting with M855 because thats what I have for SHTF...but I was having a really ****ty time trying to hit anything at 565 yards with the sustained 15mph winds (25mph gusts) we were having today. The inconsistency of this ammunition really showed with the winds as bad as they were. Groups at 300 were nothing to write home about, about 12". Still, 4 MOA with M855 at 300 yards is respectable...but nothing to write a thread about

The winds presented a problem, because I don't consider a 3 or even a 5 shot group a "group" at all. I don't even like to adjust my zero off a 3 shot group because you have no idea if the next 7 shots will be higher, lower, etc. I consider 10 shot groups a minimum for both judging precision and assessing an accurate zero.

With that said, I only had one box of Hornady 75gr ammunition. Twenty rounds. I had to confirm my zero was good at 100 with 5 rounds which left (2) 5-round groups at 300 and (1) 5 round group at 565. Unfortunately, zeroing took 8 rounds. I was shooting at the bottom target and the rounds were going below the entire target into the dirt. It took 2 rounds before I figured out what was even going on.

Here are the results, I didn't measure but I'm guessing 1.25 MOA max. They look a shade under 4".
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Again, I consider 3 shot groups worthless but it is what it is. For reference the blue man is 14" wide.
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Trying to zero my SCAR at 300...looks like I need to adjust a little left.
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The SCAR 17 really impressed me at 565 as well. With Federal M80 ammunition I nailed the gong about 1/4 rounds. 8" at 565 yards works out to about 1.40 MOA. Not bad.

Optics used were 4x ACOGs.

Last edited by Eurodriver; 01-09-2012 at 11:36..
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Old 01-05-2012, 17:22   #2
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Nothin' to complain about there, Euro. On a less windy day, I'm sure those groups would be tighter. I just wish I had a range here with those kinds of distances (not to mention the magnified optic to even have a prayer of seeing the target).
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Old 01-05-2012, 18:29   #3
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Sir Euro,

I presently have a noveske 12.5 gpr.

I have a T1 mounted, if i add an aimpoint 3X Mag, would it be possible to shoot at those
distances you are shooting?

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Old 01-05-2012, 19:54   #4
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I just stuck a 3X9 on my PSA and got it on paper at 50 yards today ,before the wind started blowing mach 90! I want to do some long distance with this rig -once I get it tuned to 100 yards I'll load up 69gr MK's and see what it will do! I agree anything lighter then 69 gr and the wind just blows them all around! Since mine is a 1:7" twist the 69 gr should shoot very well.
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Old 01-05-2012, 23:43   #5
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That's good shooting. I'm surprised that your scope has that much range to compensate for the drop.
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Old 01-06-2012, 04:04   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAJINKONG View Post
Sir Euro,

I presently have a noveske 12.5 gpr.

I have a T1 mounted, if i add an aimpoint 3X Mag, would it be possible to shoot at those
distances you are shooting?

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You will face TWO issues shooting at 300+ yards with an Aimpoint. The first would be magnification - that can be solved with a 3x or higher magnifier behind the optic. 3x is pretty marginal for 500+ yards, though.

The second issue will be dot size. The 4MOA dot in a T1 is going to cover a full 12" circle at 300 yards, and twenty inches (yes, 20) at 500 yards. At 500 yards, the dot will be bigger than most people's torsos, making hitting even a silhouette target or popper somewhat difficult. You can use the TOP of the dot as an aiming point, but that will not make a massive difference. The reticle of an ACOG is designed for longer distances in mind, and won't cover nearly as much of the target as an Aimpoint will.

This is somewhere an EO Tech with a magnifier will generally out-perform an Aimpoint, due to the smaller 1 MOA dot in the EO Tech covering significantly less of the target than the 2-4MOA dots in Aimpoints.

If you want to try to regularly make shots past 300 yards, though, I would suggest investing in a full-time magnified optic, like an ACOG or variable power scope.
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:28   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
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My compliments on this particular picture. It really captures the ACOG chevron reticle nicely, and also shows what long range targets look like through a 4x32 ACOG.

Nice shooting too, considering the weather conditions.
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Old 01-06-2012, 14:51   #8
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Update 1/06

I went back to the range today. I am VERY impressed. The wind and mirage died down allowing me to actually get the rifle zerod effectively and these are the results...

For reference: Here are the two rifles I am shooting with.
A 12.5" BCM SS upper with a TA31 ACOG
and
A 10.3" (daniel defense 16" barrel cut to 10.3") with a Centurion 9" rail and Noveske receiver using an Aimpoint T1

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Here is my "rest". Not very effective but its all I had. I don't normally shoot from a rest but I wanted to eliminate as much of me as possible. Remember, the point of this is to prove that SBRs aren't "useless" at long range, not that I am a good shooter.

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This is 300 yards with the 12.5" using Hornady Superperformance 53gr.

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This is 200 yards with the 10.3" using M855 62gr Green Tip .mil ammo I was blown away by this. I was looking through my spotting scope after each round questioning myself "Is that really a new hole in the bullseye?" repeatedly...

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Then I moved the 12.5" to 565 yards. For a target I taped two targets backwards on top of one another and one black 8" circle. I then drew in a "body". I wanted the target at this distance to be as clean as possible so I was not distracted. The BDC in the ACOG covers up the 8" circle at that distance.

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This is the result with M855. I cannot stress this enough. This is not with match ammunition. I fired 10 rounds unsuppressed and then 10 rounds suppressed (unsuppressed are circled, suppressed are lined out. One round on each string of fire impacted the black) It appears that the group actually opened up a bit suppressed, but this was by no means scientific and that could have easily been user error. There was no real measurable shift in POI however.

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Old 01-06-2012, 15:03   #9
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I love how people read the hell out of my threads but don't reply...

...then they go into another thread and talk about how they want a 24" barrel and a 24x optic for shooting at the 200 yard line.
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Old 01-06-2012, 15:58   #10
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I'm no expert, but from what I've gathered, shorter=stiffer=less reverberation.

That said, I'm sure there is a sweet spot somewhere around 18-20in.

Do you know the energy your rounds would have left at that range from your barrel?
I'm certainly not going to volunteer to stand out there and catch it!
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Old 01-06-2012, 16:35   #11
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Originally Posted by Alderak View Post
I'm no expert, but from what I've gathered, shorter=stiffer=less reverberation.

That said, I'm sure there is a sweet spot somewhere around 18-20in.

Do you know the energy your rounds would have left at that range from your barrel?
I'm certainly not going to volunteer to stand out there and catch it!
I am guestimating around 1,400 FPS at 600 yards for 62gr 5.56mm (so slightly more at 565).
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Old 01-06-2012, 16:56   #12
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I'm new to the AR's, but that is impressive. I have a carbine length and I just got my scope in today. Unfortunately, I won't be able to go to the range until next weekend.

The sight-in range I'll use is 100 yds, and I'm looking at joining a private range that has a 200 yd range. I can't wait to get out and play.
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Old 01-06-2012, 21:25   #13
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It would be a lot more impressive without a scope.
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Old 01-06-2012, 22:25   #14
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Short stainless steel barrels are the most accurate barrels around. The trick is being able to shoot them precisely. Accurate ranging is critical to maximizing their precision potential, because lower velocities allow drop and drift to have a larger effect on POI.

If one knows the range, knows his rifle, and is a good marksman, 600 yards is very managable. Great job!
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Old 01-07-2012, 00:43   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
I love how people read the hell out of my threads but don't reply...

...then they go into another thread and talk about how they want a 24" barrel and a 24x optic for shooting at the 200 yard line.
Just wait 'till i get my hands on a new BCM AR A4 20" barrel. We'll see who's king of the hill.
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Old 01-07-2012, 00:55   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
I am guestimating around 1,400 FPS at 600 yards for 62gr 5.56mm (so slightly more at 565).
On your 10.5 inch barrel I think its closer to 2300 fps, whereas a 16 inch barrel is at 2800 fps. Dont quote me on this, its been a year since I researched it.

Edit: I am talking about leaving the barrel. Have no clue as to what its doing by the time it hits the target.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:52   #17
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Just wait 'till i get my hands on a new BCM AR A4 20" barrel. We'll see who's king of the hill.
Good luck. My BCM 20" was way less accurate than my 14.5" Midlength 6 months ago.

I sold the 20".
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:13   #18
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It would be a lot more impressive without a scope.
Did you miss the fact that the 10.3" only had an Aimpoint T1 mounted on it? No magnification, still dropping them in what looks like a 4" group at 200 yards.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:17   #19
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Good luck. My BCM 20" was way less accurate than my 14.5" Midlength 6 months ago.

I sold the 20".
Did your BCM 20" have the same quality barrel, etc. as your mid length?

I've seen guys consistently hit man sized targets with an M16 at 600 meters.. using iron sights.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:20   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinesintx View Post
On your 10.5 inch barrel I think its closer to 2300 fps, whereas a 16 inch barrel is at 2800 fps. Dont quote me on this, its been a year since I researched it.

Edit: I am talking about leaving the barrel. Have no clue as to what its doing by the time it hits the target.
According to this calculator http://www.handloads.com/calc/ with 2300 at the muzzle a 62 grainer will be 1068 at 600. 2800 mv at 600 y will be 1273 fps. Add about 100 fps and 75 fps respectively for a boatail.
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