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Old 05-19-2013, 22:38   #141
happie2shoot
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SDGlock23

Do you think these would be worty a try

http://leeprecision.com/6-cavity-452-255-rf.html

I have some cast and waiting to get my 460 barrel in the mail.
If you think they would be any good I will send you some, they are
250gr.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:56   #142
SDGlock23
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Happie,

That looks like a good one to me, plus it says it will work in .45 Auto which makes me think the profile should work. The 250gr RNFP Missouri's look very similar to that, and they will cycle for sure. I'm not sure what OAL that Lee mould would work with in the Super, but the longer case of the 460 Rowland is especially beneficial for more blunt nosed bullets since the OAL of the 460 is the same of the .45 Super, which of course depends on bullet.

I've got some real blunt Beartooth bullets that I've had to seat kind of deep in the Super that would really benefit from the longer Rowland case since being blunt doesn't effect it as much. One day I may just break down and get a 460 barrel, but for now I'll have to be one of the few 45 Super guys
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:22   #143
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Just so people are clear, the only function of the longer case in the Rowland is to prevent higher pressure loads chambering in .45 acp guns not rated for it. The COL between .45acp, Super, and Rowland are all the same, and thus, the interior powder volume is the same (barring slight differences from variations in brass thickness).
I have loaded Standard Winchester .45acp brass to Rowland level loads (In a strong gun with a barrel with complete chamber support and strong recoil springs)

One does not need a Roland case/barrel to make Rowland level loads. One does need good brass (Winchester, or Starline) and a strong barrel with excellent 6 o'clock chamber support and of course adequate recoil management system i.e. strong recoil springs and a compensator.
Buying a complete Rowland "kit" is a great way to get a "tested and approved" system for shooting .451 bullets really fast at high pressures. It is not the only way to do it.
The main benefit of only shooting High pressure rounds in a Rowland case is that they won't fit in any old .45.
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Old 05-21-2013, 15:11   #144
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I've thought of this as well, since the cartridge OAL is the same, there really wouldn't be any real difference between the .45 Super and Rowland as long as the same OAL is used. I read an article about the 460 Rowland and Starline said 460 Rowland brass is made just like 45 Super brass, just longer.

I have read the article of using ACP cases to get 460 Rowland level performance out of a Ruger Blackhawk convertible, but I've not tried it using ACP brass in the Glock, since I do have a good bit of .45 Super brass. Starline does claim Super brass is stronger than .45 ACP brass, equally strong is the 460R.

My personal opinion has been that .45 Super brass is equally as strong as 460 Rowland brass. Some loads I've found do have to seat deeper than I prefer because they're revolver based bullets, which is why for those bullets the 460 can hold an advantage, but if the OAL can be kept the same on both, I don't see why the .45 Super couldn't handle a 460R level load in a comped gun with good support.
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Old 06-17-2013, 03:14   #145
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The 21 Club


I too am working with the 45 Super in a G-21. My primers look like these after firing. Isn't this considered primer flattening? I am using Winchester Primers. I have been shooting 8.5 gr of Power Pistol with 230 XTP and see this. Is this normal? Should I use a different primer. I am using the reduced power striker spring, 24# Wolff recoil spring with their full length uncaptured guiderod, an a 6" KKM barrel. I have not cronographed this so I do not know what velocity I am getting. Would love to get near 1200 fps if it is feasable. I have also had some issues with feeding when I went up to 9.5 gr PP. I need to try Vaq's fix with the double mag springs.......I had been thinking of something like that but hadn't had time to try it. I have ordered some extra power Wolff mag springs but havn't received them yet. Seems that might not be enough spring unless I put a Wolff with a stock mag spring. So much to try, so little time. It seems we really need a 45 Super club.

I have read and reread this thread several times. I even have it on my Favorites tab. This is the most info I have found at any one place for the 45 Super period. It needs to be more accessable so other can find it. I tripped over it doing a google search...and I am a GT member!

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Old 06-17-2013, 08:36   #146
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Quote:
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My primers look like these after firing. Isn't this considered primer flattening?
It is hard to say the way the light is in the photo. But if I were to guess, I would say yes.

If in doubt, work up some light loads and look at those primers.

This being said, I don't think this is a good measure for 45 Super loads in Glocks.
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Old 06-17-2013, 18:49   #147
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It is hard to tell with that lighting, but as far as it being flattened, yes it's flattened a small amount but not badly. I don't generally have an issue with a little bit of flattening, but I've yet to have any loads exhibit severe flattening. Here's a pretty good example of a truly flat primer:

The 21 Club

The middle is flatter than the one on the left, but the one on the right is FLAT. Plus some primers are softer than others and may exhibit this sooner than others.

Your goal of 1200 fps with a 230gr XTP should be no problem with Power Pistol. You mentioned you had some issues at 9.5gr, which are probably similar to the issues I had when I shot .45 Super from a standard 4.6" KKM.

I got the comped barrel to help slow down the slide speed and it's definitely helped. 9.8gr PP was getting me right at 1175 fps (230gr) from my 5" comped KKM, so with an extra inch you should be there, and then some, that is if you can get your slide slowed down a bit. The same amount of Longshot (9.8gr) got me 1230 fps from the 5" KKM. If you run across some Longshot you might want to give it a try, it should get you 1200 fps at maybe a little over 9 grains.

You are right, there aren't very many sources AT ALL for .45 Super data out there, and it's good you found this!
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:49   #148
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The 21 Club
Good article.
http://www.massreloading.com/reading...ure_signs.html
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:41   #149
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That was a good article.
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:53   #150
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Anybody tried the 200gr XTP on hogs? It should do fine.....if it is as tough as the 230gr XTP. I have always preferred 230 for a 45 auto but if the 200gr XTP will do then I could push it to 1200 fps and shoot a bit flatter that the 230. Anyone have accuracy differences between 200 vs 230 gr XTP? Inquiring minds want to know!
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:32   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo341 View Post
Anybody tried the 200gr XTP on hogs? It should do fine.....if it is as tough as the 230gr XTP. I have always preferred 230 for a 45 auto but if the 200gr XTP will do then I could push it to 1200 fps and shoot a bit flatter that the 230. Anyone have accuracy differences between 200 vs 230 gr XTP? Inquiring minds want to know!
Although I am sure I gel tested the 200 and 230gr XTP years ago, I do not remember the findings.

What I will say is that bullets are designed to function at specific velocities, when you take them out of their normal range you get interesting results.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:58   #152
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I'd rather use a hardcast slug like the 265 and 275 grain WFN bullets listed earlier. Bullets designed for 45 auto velocities very well may just come apart at increased velocities and not penetrate the way you need for tough animals like hogs, elk and black bear.
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:54   #153
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I have been thinking of a WFN hardcast. But hogs aren't THAT tough to kill. I used the 240gr XTP out of a muzzleloader several times. I just was curious about the 200gr XTP.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:40   #154
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I have been thinking of a WFN hardcast. But hogs aren't THAT tough to kill. I used the 240gr XTP out of a muzzleloader several times. I just was curious about the 200gr XTP.
Because I don't have any particular memory of that bullet, I "think" it will do ok, but I would suggest shooting some wet packed newspaper just in case I forgetting a spectacular failure or they have changed the bullet (like they have done before).
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Old 06-22-2013, 19:42   #155
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Which 240 grain XTP is the question. The 44 mag version is built to handle 44 mag velocities. The 45 caliber 240 XTP is a mag version built to handle 454 Casull velocities.

The 45 caliber 200 grain xtp is built for what, maybe 900 - 1100 fps? All I'm saying is that if you run this bullet at 45 Super velocities, say 1300 fps, it may come apart and not penetrate like you want on those hogs.
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:44   #156
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That make perfect sense. The 230gr .451 xtp is what I have been shooting so far. Going to test some hard cast pretty quick.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:53   #157
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Which 240 grain XTP is the question. The 44 mag version is built to handle 44 mag velocities. The 45 caliber 240 XTP is a mag version built to handle 454 Casull velocities.

The 45 caliber 200 grain xtp is built for what, maybe 900 - 1100 fps? All I'm saying is that if you run this bullet at 45 Super velocities, say 1300 fps, it may come apart and not penetrate like you want on those hogs.
As much as you encourage him to go with a heavy revolver bullet, I caution against it.

The revolver bullets are designed for faster velocities than I could get with the 45Super. So rather than getting a JHP, it is like having a FMJ bullet. Don't get me wrong it produced a nice .451 hole, but I could have done the same with a 45ACP FMJ.
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Old 06-23-2013, 18:44   #158
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I'm actually saying a hardcast slug with a fat meplat, like the 265 and 275 bullets posted above, may be the better choice.

A light 45 hollowpoint may just come apart, and under-penetrate. Like you say, a heavy jhp may not open. An fmj is more likely to turn on big game, again giving less than ideal penetration. IMO, a WFN or WLN would be the better bullet on big game.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:28   #159
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I will be trying a .451 WFN hardcast 250gr. But I havn't given up on the 230 XTP. I wouldn't think 1175 fps would be pushing it too awful hard.
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Old 06-25-2013, 18:14   #160
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If I had to choose a JHP it would be the 230gr XTP. I've loaded the 200gr XTP up to around 1300 fps, which was too fast as I figured it would be. It shed quite a bit of weight and penetration wasn't so good. A 230gr XTP around 1150-1200 fps would be just the ticket for a JHP bullet in the Super, and should penetrate well.

Just like the other guys have said, hardcast would be the best option. I'm still waiting on my 300gr hardcasts to come in, but I can play with the new 10mm in the meantime.
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