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Old 06-21-2013, 12:32   #151
RWBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo341 View Post
Anybody tried the 200gr XTP on hogs? It should do fine.....if it is as tough as the 230gr XTP. I have always preferred 230 for a 45 auto but if the 200gr XTP will do then I could push it to 1200 fps and shoot a bit flatter that the 230. Anyone have accuracy differences between 200 vs 230 gr XTP? Inquiring minds want to know!
Although I am sure I gel tested the 200 and 230gr XTP years ago, I do not remember the findings.

What I will say is that bullets are designed to function at specific velocities, when you take them out of their normal range you get interesting results.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:58   #152
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I'd rather use a hardcast slug like the 265 and 275 grain WFN bullets listed earlier. Bullets designed for 45 auto velocities very well may just come apart at increased velocities and not penetrate the way you need for tough animals like hogs, elk and black bear.
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:54   #153
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I have been thinking of a WFN hardcast. But hogs aren't THAT tough to kill. I used the 240gr XTP out of a muzzleloader several times. I just was curious about the 200gr XTP.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:40   #154
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I have been thinking of a WFN hardcast. But hogs aren't THAT tough to kill. I used the 240gr XTP out of a muzzleloader several times. I just was curious about the 200gr XTP.
Because I don't have any particular memory of that bullet, I "think" it will do ok, but I would suggest shooting some wet packed newspaper just in case I forgetting a spectacular failure or they have changed the bullet (like they have done before).
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Old 06-22-2013, 19:42   #155
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Which 240 grain XTP is the question. The 44 mag version is built to handle 44 mag velocities. The 45 caliber 240 XTP is a mag version built to handle 454 Casull velocities.

The 45 caliber 200 grain xtp is built for what, maybe 900 - 1100 fps? All I'm saying is that if you run this bullet at 45 Super velocities, say 1300 fps, it may come apart and not penetrate like you want on those hogs.
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:44   #156
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That make perfect sense. The 230gr .451 xtp is what I have been shooting so far. Going to test some hard cast pretty quick.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:53   #157
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Which 240 grain XTP is the question. The 44 mag version is built to handle 44 mag velocities. The 45 caliber 240 XTP is a mag version built to handle 454 Casull velocities.

The 45 caliber 200 grain xtp is built for what, maybe 900 - 1100 fps? All I'm saying is that if you run this bullet at 45 Super velocities, say 1300 fps, it may come apart and not penetrate like you want on those hogs.
As much as you encourage him to go with a heavy revolver bullet, I caution against it.

The revolver bullets are designed for faster velocities than I could get with the 45Super. So rather than getting a JHP, it is like having a FMJ bullet. Don't get me wrong it produced a nice .451 hole, but I could have done the same with a 45ACP FMJ.
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Old 06-23-2013, 18:44   #158
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I'm actually saying a hardcast slug with a fat meplat, like the 265 and 275 bullets posted above, may be the better choice.

A light 45 hollowpoint may just come apart, and under-penetrate. Like you say, a heavy jhp may not open. An fmj is more likely to turn on big game, again giving less than ideal penetration. IMO, a WFN or WLN would be the better bullet on big game.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:28   #159
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I will be trying a .451 WFN hardcast 250gr. But I havn't given up on the 230 XTP. I wouldn't think 1175 fps would be pushing it too awful hard.
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Old 06-25-2013, 18:14   #160
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If I had to choose a JHP it would be the 230gr XTP. I've loaded the 200gr XTP up to around 1300 fps, which was too fast as I figured it would be. It shed quite a bit of weight and penetration wasn't so good. A 230gr XTP around 1150-1200 fps would be just the ticket for a JHP bullet in the Super, and should penetrate well.

Just like the other guys have said, hardcast would be the best option. I'm still waiting on my 300gr hardcasts to come in, but I can play with the new 10mm in the meantime.
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Old 06-25-2013, 18:30   #161
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I have never had a love for hard case in a semi-auto. The bullet profile is just like a FMJ and at handgun velocities the lead stays in the FMJ.

I might as well go FMJ or go to a heavy JHP which doesn't open.
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Old 06-25-2013, 19:49   #162
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I have never had a love for hard case in a semi-auto. The bullet profile is just like a FMJ and at handgun velocities the lead stays in the FMJ.

I might as well go FMJ or go to a heavy JHP which doesn't open.

Well about the only thing negative that I've noticed about the hardcasts I've shot through my comped KKM is that they soot up the front something awful. The advantages I see though are that the hardcasts do have a better profile in terms of WFN type bullets, and their heavier weight increases penetration.

Now if I were to use a FMJ .45, I'd opt for the Hornady FMJ FN, which has the best profile of the FMJs. As for heavy JHPs, they can open up, just don't use any designed for 454 velocities or they won't.

A 240 XTP Mag would be a poor choice, but the 250gr XTP is a fine choice as it opens up nicely and penetrates deep moving along at near 1,200 fps muzzle velocity. The 250gr Gold Dot works very well too in the Super.
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Old 06-25-2013, 22:14   #163
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I guess that's what I'm trying to say here. An fmj doesn't have the same profile as a WFN hardcast bullet. The fmj has the profile of a LRN/RNL, however you want to call it.

If you check in with big bore handgun hunters they purt near universally tout the SWC Keith and/or WFN/WLN/LFN bullet profiles for hunting big game.

The 230 and 250 xtp's are what I would choose if I felt the need for a jhp bullet. The 250 Gold Dot is what I'd use for SD and smaller deer. For hogs, elk and black bear I'm choosing the WFNGC bullet.

IME the 265 WFNGC from Beartooth is surprisingly accurate. I noticed this when chronographing loads. I wasn't even shooting for group size and noticed the bullets cutting a ragged hole at 15 yards.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:10   #164
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I got my Beartooth 300gr LFNGC in the mail yesterday after a good long wait. It looks like a profile that's going to work well. Hoping to get some loaded up and chronographed before much longer.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:35   #165
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I got my Beartooth 300gr LFNGC in the mail yesterday after a good long wait. It looks like a profile that's going to work well. Hoping to get some loaded up and chronographed before much longer.

Please keep us posted on your load development and testing.

Thanks,

James
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:56   #166
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Please keep us posted on your load development and testing.

Thanks,

James
Yes please do
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Old 08-09-2013, 14:22   #167
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Yeah I sure will, since I know some of what I come up with can also help out those who load for the Rowland. Here are just a few pics I snapped when figuring out what will fit in the KKM barrel. I tried 1.280" and it fits, so I'm going to stick with that just so I can get a little extra room for powder. Plus I loaded some at that OAL and they do fit in the G21 magazine.

I don't really have any must reach velocity goals, but I'd like to get close to 1,100 fps. Whether that ever happens I have no idea, but considering I got almost 1,150 from a 275gr, I think 1,100 is feasible. The meplat (flat nose) isn't quite as large as the 275gr Hunters Supply, but it's very close.

Here's the bullet beside one loaded to 1.280" in .45 Super brass:

The 21 Club

Here is the BT 300gr LFNGC compared to the BT 200gr WFNGC. I love the 200gr WFGNC for the 10mm/warm .40's, but it looks small in comparison:

The 21 Club
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Old 08-09-2013, 22:46   #168
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Yeah I sure will, since I know some of what I come up with can also help out those who load for the Rowland. Here are just a few pics I snapped when figuring out what will fit in the KKM barrel. I tried 1.280" and it fits, so I'm going to stick with that just so I can get a little extra room for powder. Plus I loaded some at that OAL and they do fit in the G21 magazine.

I don't really have any must reach velocity goals, but I'd like to get close to 1,100 fps. Whether that ever happens I have no idea, but considering I got almost 1,150 from a 275gr, I think 1,100 is feasible. The meplat (flat nose) isn't quite as large as the 275gr Hunters Supply, but it's very close.

Here's the bullet beside one loaded to 1.280" in .45 Super brass:

The 21 Club

Here is the BT 300gr LFNGC compared to the BT 200gr WFNGC. I love the 200gr WFGNC for the 10mm/warm .40's, but it looks small in comparison:

The 21 Club
now you went and done it, I am going to have to try some
300gr lee gc in my 460 rowland
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:27   #169
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Those are some sexy looking bullets........I really need to get out more!!!

Did you go with the .451 or .452 diameter?

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Old 08-10-2013, 07:00   #170
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.452" Hondo and yes they are fine looking boolits, almost pains me to shoot some of them...almost!
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Old 08-10-2013, 14:37   #171
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Thanks. I will have to get some.
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Old 08-10-2013, 16:10   #172
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I just couldn't wait. Weather hasn't been too great, but I did get a short break to get out there and run a few of the 300gr loads and a few 275gr loads as well.

Here's the data I got today:

275gr Hunters Supply hardcast, 9.8gr 800x @ 1.260": 1,183 fps (17 fps ES!) 855 ft-lbs!!

300gr LFNGC, 9.8gr VV 3N38 @ 1.280": 1,056 fps (6 fps ES!)

300gr LFNGC, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.280": 1,071 fps (13 fps ES!)

300gr LFNGC, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.280": 1,077 fps (6 fps ES!)

300gr LFNGC, 9.3gr 800x @ 1.270": 1,125 fps (8 fps ES!) 843 ft-lbs!!

Glock 21 Gen4 w/KKM 4 port barrel (5") was used along with a 24lb RSA. New Starline brass and CCI LP primers.

There ya have it. I'm not done with it by no means, but this is today's data. 3N38 was purely off the top of my head as I had no idea where to start with it. I feel it has more potential in the Super, but I needed a base line of where to start and I've got it.

I wasn't really expecting much to be honest, but I was surprised at some of the numbers I got. 800x really shined today, which is kind of funny since I've not messed with but on two prior occasions in the Super and didn't expect what I got out of it today.

I didn't really think I'd see 1,100 fps, but I did and I have to say I'm happy that I actually surpassed that with 1,125 fps today. Brass looked good, a tad bit of extractor rash on the case rim, but not much. No bulging in the excellent KKM barrel.

I don't want to leave out mentioning the 275gr load. I another load idea in mind for it, but getting near 1,200 fps with a 275 bullet is almost unreal, really.

What about recoil? Yeah there is recoil no doubt. Going from shooting some 230gr @ 870 fps to a 275/300gr load above is noticeable. When you shoot the heavier bullets, the recoil gets noticeably more pushy. No function issues however!

800x got my attention today, and now I already have some 255gr Beartooth WFNPB hardcasts loaded up ready to go as well as some 250gr XTPs, just to see what 800x has to say about these. If the weather permits I hope to run some tomorrow, Lord willing.
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Old 08-10-2013, 17:08   #173
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you are my HERO, thanks for the info.

Many moons ago I was shooting some RCBS 325gr gc .458 bullets
sized down to .452 out of a 454 with a 45ACP cylinder in it.

Was using wc-820/ h-108/ aa#9 powder, could not get enough
powder in it to get a clean burn, was 1125fps with a 7.5'' barrel.
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Old 08-11-2013, 18:00   #174
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I would like to add a few more, got a chance to play with 800x and some 250/255gr bullets today. So I brought out the Chrony, put it on the tripod, leveled it all up and ran some test loads to make sure it's reading correctly. I'm pleased...

Gen4 G21 w/KKM 4 port compensated barrel and 24lb RSA. New Starline .45 Super brass and CCI LP primers.

250gr Hornady XTP, 10.8gr 800X @ 1.190": 1,256 fps (6 fps ES!) 876 ft-lbs!

255gr Beartooth WFNPB, 10.8gr 800x @ 1.170": 1,261 fps (5 fps ES!) 900 ft-lbs!

I never did mess with 800x much prior and now I wish I had! Over the past few days it's been very consistent and has turned the .45 Super into quite the powerhouse. The beautiful thing is, not only are the energy numbers high, but the bullets are heavy.

This is .44 Magnum class performance. I'm not saying it's the equal of it because it isn't, but what I'm saying is, Remington, Federal and Winchester all offer .44 Magnum 240-250gr loads that are slower than my 250gr loads and with less energy than all 3 of my heavy .45 Supers (250-255gr/275gr/300gr). Hornady offers a 300gr .44 that lists 1150 fps (as does Federal), and I'm getting 1125 fps with a 300gr .452" from my .45 Super. Not better than the .44, but in the same general class for sure.

Brass looked good and the KKM comped barrel helped I'm sure, and even still recoil was there. I'm thinking if I could own one Glock, what would it be? My G21 would be it, it does everything very well, from target .45's, the ability to shoot all the good JHP defense bullets, and then I can take it out and let it roar with the .45 Super.
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Old 08-11-2013, 22:43   #175
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So now I will need some 800x or are you going to try AA#9 and
maybe go faster.
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