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Old 06-21-2014, 22:14   #1
Hoochrunners
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G21 to 10mm revisited

This comment...

"A drop-in 10mm barrel (aftermarket conversion barrel strongly recommended) and G20 mag change are the minimum requirements to shoot 10mm caliber ammo with the G21/G21SF pistol."

was taken from this 2011 thread...

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1316011

Is it still valid? 1-10 scale how reliable will it be with just those changes? I'd like to shoot 10mm from my gen3 21 for as little $$$ and as easy as possible.

Thanks.
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Old 06-22-2014, 19:00   #2
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Hi Hooch. Before we get into this too far, some will want to know what you want the 10mm for.
If you happen to be like me and just need that power every once in a while ( I bowhunt and need the "Power" once a year).
You may want to look at this...
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1382239
If you want a 10mm for CC I would suggest using this as an opportunity for a new Glock, Gen 4 G29.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:57   #3
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It will be a hunting backup woods gun. Probably 25 rounds/yr in 10mm configuration. I would like to be able to switch back to stock .45acp quick and simple. I carry a 30S so no concerns there. I'll check the link.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:56   #4
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Just get a 20/29. You can't loose.
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:52   #5
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Or you could buy a G20 upper.

Obviously a little more expensive than a barrel and a couple mags.

I'd just buy a G20 though.
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Old 06-23-2014, 14:36   #6
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G21 to 10mm revisited

The .45 Super is probably the most economical route. The only issue with a 10mm conversion barrel is you may have to swap out the extractor (I think) for it to be very reliable.
The super (for what you and I need) only requires a stouter RSA, a shock buffer, and a box of ammo. Again, I think. It seems there is one more item I'm forgetting.
Check out www.underwoodammo.com
And clock on pistol ammunition, then .45 Super. Read the info at the top of the .45 Super page.
There's a guy on here that has done everything to his G30 (I think) from 10mm, .45 Super, .40 Super, to the Rowland. I'll try to find his stuff for you when I get home.
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Old 06-23-2014, 17:46   #7
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.45 Super had crossed my mind. The Underwood page has this comment...

"45 Super is externally/dimensionally identical to 45 acp or 45 acp+P and is designed to be used in 45 acp semi auto pistols that have been fitted with stronger than normal recoil springs and a shock buffer, plus a couple other modifications. While you can shoot 45 SUPER out of some stock 45 acp+P pistols such as the Glock 21, HK USP or the full sized all steel 1911, you will batter your pistol if you do not have them modified to handle the extra pressure and slide velocity of the 45 Super."

"plus a couple other modifications" is where I get lost. I thought I read in one of the threads that the shock buffer isn't necessarily needed. If I go .45 Super, a stronger rsa with a 6" KKM .45 acp barrel I already have, will I beat the gun to death? Will I get the better woods gun I'm looking for? I do not reload. I hunt northern WI. Black bear are all over. Would like to take a whitetail deer with it if I had a chance.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 06-23-2014, 18:51   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoochrunners View Post
.45 Super had crossed my mind. The Underwood page has this comment...

"45 Super is externally/dimensionally identical to 45 acp or 45 acp+P and is designed to be used in 45 acp semi auto pistols that have been fitted with stronger than normal recoil springs and a shock buffer, plus a couple other modifications. While you can shoot 45 SUPER out of some stock 45 acp+P pistols such as the Glock 21, HK USP or the full sized all steel 1911, you will batter your pistol if you do not have them modified to handle the extra pressure and slide velocity of the 45 Super."

"plus a couple other modifications" is where I get lost. I thought I read in one of the threads that the shock buffer isn't necessarily needed. If I go .45 Super, a stronger rsa with a 6" KKM .45 acp barrel I already have, will I beat the gun to death? Will I get the better woods gun I'm looking for? I do not reload. I hunt northern WI. Black bear are all over. Would like to take a whitetail deer with it if I had a chance.

Thanks for the help.
No those are the mods they speak of.
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Old 06-23-2014, 23:52   #9
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Originally Posted by Hoochrunners View Post
.45 Super had crossed my mind. The Underwood page has this comment...

"45 Super is externally/dimensionally identical to 45 acp or 45 acp+P and is designed to be used in 45 acp semi auto pistols that have been fitted with stronger than normal recoil springs and a shock buffer, plus a couple other modifications. While you can shoot 45 SUPER out of some stock 45 acp+P pistols such as the Glock 21, HK USP or the full sized all steel 1911, you will batter your pistol if you do not have them modified to handle the extra pressure and slide velocity of the 45 Super."

"plus a couple other modifications" is where I get lost. I thought I read in one of the threads that the shock buffer isn't necessarily needed. If I go .45 Super, a stronger rsa with a 6" KKM .45 acp barrel I already have, will I beat the gun to death? Will I get the better woods gun I'm looking for? I do not reload. I hunt northern WI. Black bear are all over. Would like to take a whitetail deer with it if I had a chance.

Thanks for the help.
I shoot 45 Super at Underwood levels and above (230gr at 1100fps+) with a stock G21SF. The only mod I use is a 22lb ISMI captive RSA to help keep the slide off the frame, but really, if you are talking 100 or so a year, stock RSA will be fine, the battering is a longer term issue (i.e. thousands of rounds). I found shock buffers to be a joke, all they seemed to do is break up and jam the action. The 22lb spring will eliminate any battering.

A 230gr XTP going 1100fps will be plenty for your needs. If you want a little added velocity insurance a 6" hunting barrel will provide it.
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Old 06-24-2014, 07:55   #10
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I'd advise using .45 Super too, basically all you'll need is a heavier RSA. Buying a good KKM barrel would be a good idea too, although not needed with the Underwood .45 Super, if you ever got into reloading the KKM would be best.

When I was using a Gen3 21SF as my .45 SUper gun, with 4.6" KKM and a 22/24lb RSA I could still get some good ballistics. I ultimately ended up buying a comped KKM barrel because I load the .45 Super to 460 Rowland levels, but at "regular" .45 Super levels you don't need a comp, but a heavier RSA is a very good idea.
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Old 06-24-2014, 17:12   #11
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captive RSA
Captive? Looking at Midway I see references to captive, non captive, captured. Can you explain?

Btw, I need >= 5.5" barrel, state law if used when deer hunting.
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Old 06-24-2014, 21:59   #12
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Captive? Looking at Midway I see references to captive, non captive, captured. Can you explain?

Btw, I need >= 5.5" barrel, state law if used when deer hunting.
By captive, I meant the spring is held on the guide rod with a fastener. An uncaptured unit is the spring is free when the RSA is removed from the gun.

Here is what I use:

http://www.glockmeister.com/Glockmei...nfo/GMSSR20CS/

The 6" barrel will deliver somewhere between 40 and 120 fps more velocity, depending on the load (bullet, powder, etc.).

PS - I went back and looked up my records for the Underwood 230gr GD .45 Super loads (I think Speer got on them for calling them Gold Dots, so they changed the name of the load that uses Gold Dot bullets to Bonded JHP now, same round). The stock G21SF barrel delivered 1065fps, my 5" 1911 was 1112 fps and my G21SF with my 6" KKM hunting barrel was 1152 fps. Those are all averaged, but as I recall the UW 45 Super loads were pretty consistent.
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Old 06-25-2014, 17:23   #13
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10-4. Thanks all. I think .45 Super is the route I'll go.
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Old 06-25-2014, 18:48   #14
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10-4. Thanks all. I think .45 Super is the route I'll go.
Cool, I thought you might. Unless you were just dead set on the 10mm.
I would just go with a stouter RSA and a box of these:
http://www.underwoodammo.com/45super...fnboxof50.aspx
And some reading material:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197490
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Old 06-25-2014, 20:54   #15
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10-4. Thanks all. I think .45 Super is the route I'll go.
Great move.

Roughly the same muzzle energy as 10mm, heavier bullet, bigger hole, minimal additional hardware.
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:02   #16
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One of the deer hunting regulations in my state is that you cannot use "non-expanding type bullets". That is how it is worded in the published regs.

I'm having a dialog right now with the WI DNR. The person I'm talking to has preliminarily vetoed that bullet "...you could not use those for hunting because they don't expand or mushroom". With that said they believe the intent of the printed regulation is to prevent the use of FMJ or armor piercing bullets. They've forwarded our discussion onto the enforcement division for a final determination based on the wording of the actual law that the printed regulation is based on. Walking through the woods on any other day that bullet is ok for protection.

I don't have any hard cast experience. This comment on that bullet link doesn't help "Hard cast flat nose bullets are non-expanding". I need a smidgin of expansion. If the WI DNR still says no, I'll contact Underwood for any input they can provide.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:24   #17
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I agree with Teecher45 that the hardcast bullet would be preferable to a bullet like the Gold Dot. If regulations preclude using hardcast lead, I think I would opt for the 230gr XTP option over the Gold Dot.

The jacket on the XTP seems to fold back more than the GD, so you will probably get better penetration results from it versus the Gold Dot (which expand a great deal). I think it would be a reasonable compromise if the authorities get back to you with a no-go for the hardcast.
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Old 06-26-2014, 23:34   #18
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I agree with Teecher45 that the hardcast bullet would be preferable to a bullet like the Gold Dot. If regulations preclude using hardcast lead, I think I would opt for the 230gr XTP option over the Gold Dot.

The jacket on the XTP seems to fold back more than the GD, so you will probably get better penetration results from it versus the Gold Dot (which expand a great deal). I think it would be a reasonable compromise if the authorities get back to you with a no-go for the hardcast.

Completely agree. The XTP is better designed for hunting. The hard cast for defense of big scary critters. According the the size of the bears in your area the XTP would probably work fine for them too.
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Old 07-12-2014, 20:08   #19
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Cool, I thought you might. Unless you were just dead set on the 10mm.
I would just go with a stouter RSA and a box of these:
http://www.underwoodammo.com/45super...fnboxof50.aspx
And some reading material:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197490
Update. I heard back from a WI game warden. Hard cast flat nose not legal.
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Old 07-12-2014, 20:55   #20
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Sucks.
XTP or an excuse to buy a .44 mag!
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